A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their offense

[ggsimmonds]

Some of you may have read some of my posts in many of the reading defense or what plays you call threads.

If so you are aware that I love hi-lo reads and how I have commented that I borrow heavily from Peyton Manning.

Well I stumbled across the original article that led me to adopt my offense, and thought I'd share it here for any who may be interested:

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/01/peytons-favorite-pass-play-levels.html

Chris Brown then revisited this subject in a piece he wrote for Grantland:

http://grantland.com/features/how-return-simplicity-peyton-manning-indy-offense-ignited-denver-broncos/

So give these links a read, and consider running the concept in practice mode.

(quick note: I always roll my eyes in the offense advice threads because inevitably you will get some well meaning poster say "mix up your playcalls, don't call the same stuff." Such comments are often accompanied by claims that calling any one play more than an handful of times in a game is "not sim." Pay special attention to the second article where it is stated that Peyton runs levels usually 10 times a game, and sometimes as often as 20. Peyton's offense was not sim)

Also if you have any links similar that maybe detail other passing concepts please do share them!

[xerxes313]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Definitely a good read there. Had me searching for more articles about offenses.
Just discovered that my custom playbook is basically a modern Air Coryell offense.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Definitely a good read there. Had me searching for more articles about offenses.
Just discovered that my custom playbook is basically a modern Air Coryell offense.

Ravens ran that back in Flacco's early years when Cam was the OC. I was never any good with it

[timhere1970]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Good reads, thanks.what formation and set would you recommend running this from in madde for somebody that wants to icorporate it into their playbook but not organize their entire playbook into the concept?

[reyes the roof]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Good stuff, makes me wish they'd introduce and expand upon the linked plays feature from NCAA so you can actually set up the cpu. Run levels a few times and it should open up the smash for you

[manEATgod]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

I've been doing this in my online league for a while now and it's really fun. I've been lucky to get Ravens consistently and I've gone from running their version of the Air Coryell to the Kubiak Zone Run West Coast Offense and now to a combination of power run man/gap blocking and west coast offense that they are going for.

Greg Roman is spearheading the run game so I went and looked him up completely. Here's what I'm using to recreate his scheme.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2017/...re-greg-roman/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-bills-offense-diverse-retro-and-maybe-the-nfls-most-creative/

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/22-san-francisco-complex-offense-far-more-running-171041695--nfl.html

There was some other stuff on a site called "Building the Herd" but I can't seem to access it anymore. It had both the run and pass concepts he favors.

As for those articles on Peyton Manning's offenses, that's partly what got me into the Xs and Os growing up. The reality that Peyton was just running a few concepts based on what he he saw from the defense, and picked defenses apart en route to his typical 13-3 season, was astounding to me.

I've also always loved "Levels" because of that article as well.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Good reads, thanks.what formation and set would you recommend running this from in madde for somebody that wants to icorporate it into their playbook but not organize their entire playbook into the concept?

It can be ran from any 2x2 set. I run it from singleback dice slot the most, but it can just as easily be ran from shotgun doubles.

You can also easily create your own version from virtually any formation that has 2 receivers/TE on one side when you need at least 8 yards for a first. Hot route 2 receivers to run in routes, then smart route the inside in route.

I've been doing this in my online league for a while now and it's really fun. I've been lucky to get Ravens consistently and I've gone from running their version of the Air Coryell to the Kubiak Zone Run West Coast Offense and now to a combination of power run man/gap blocking and west coast offense that they are going for.

Greg Roman is spearheading the run game so I went and looked him up completely. Here's what I'm using to recreate his scheme.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2017/...re-greg-roman/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/the-bills-offense-diverse-retro-and-maybe-the-nfls-most-creative/

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/22-san-francisco-complex-offense-far-more-running-171041695--nfl.html

There was some other stuff on a site called "Building the Herd" but I can't seem to access it anymore. It had both the run and pass concepts he favors.

As for those articles on Peyton Manning's offenses, that's partly what got me into the Xs and Os growing up. The reality that Peyton was just running a few concepts based on what he he saw from the defense, and picked defenses apart en route to his typical 13-3 season, was astounding to me.

I've also always loved "Levels" because of that article as well.

For Peyton, yeah prior to reading the articles I, like a lot of people, figured that Peyton's offense was unusually deep. I was surprised to find out that the Colts playbook was unusually small, that instead they just had a handful of plays and concepts that complimented each other perfectly.

Regarding the Ravens, how long have you been using the Kubiak scheme? Back when he was the HC for the Texans I also used his playbook in my Ravens franchise. I'd be lying if I said that Madden was not near the front of my thoughts when he was hired as OC.

I'll give the Roman articles a read.

[xSABOx]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

My obsession with X's and O's started wth Steve Spurrier... then Mike Martz... and finally Peyton Manning...

Every year I create a new playbook called "Peyton" that has the 6-13 plays in multiple formations with audibles built in to match any pre coverage looks... usually a mixture levels/flood/mesh/WR screen/HB screen/3 verts

Just wish they would have all variations of how he throws levels and option routes run properly on his 3 verticles play...

[manEATgod]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

It can be ran from any 2x2 set. I run it from singleback dice slot the most, but it can just as easily be ran from shotgun doubles.

You can also easily create your own version from virtually any formation that has 2 receivers/TE on one side when you need at least 8 yards for a first. Hot route 2 receivers to run in routes, then smart route the inside in route.



For Peyton, yeah prior to reading the articles I, like a lot of people, figured that Peyton's offense was unusually deep. I was surprised to find out that the Colts playbook was unusually small, that instead they just had a handful of plays and concepts that complimented each other perfectly.

Regarding the Ravens, how long have you been using the Kubiak scheme? Back when he was the HC for the Texans I also used his playbook in my Ravens franchise. I'd be lying if I said that Madden was not near the front of my thoughts when he was hired as OC.

I'll give the Roman articles a read.

I only ran the Kubiak scheme as Ravens for one year, then I started to shift to Marc Trestman's scheme using what I could find from his time with both the Bears and the Canadian team he coached to two championships.

I've completely gotten rid of Kubiak's stuff by now and Trestmans stuff as well. The Ravens tried to change from Power Run to Zone run and failed miserable aside from when Kubiak was here, I'm glad we are done with that experiment, it's not for everyone. Ravens football needs Power to dominate and intimidate.

Just like the Ravens in real life, I ran into some major problems the year after Kubiak left, but I think that was more due to run blocking being broken. Also like the real life Ravens, my run game and offense ended up being a disaster following Trestman. I'll be getting mocked for a long time in my league for leading the league in passing attempts, and throwing so much on the goaline and failing, but that's what Trestman does and it was horrible for the Ravens.

I really liked learning more about Kubiak. My offense was hot fire that year he was here.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

I only ran the Kubiak scheme as Ravens for one year, then I started to shift to Marc Trestman's scheme using what I could find from his time with both the Bears and the Canadian team he coached to two championships.

I've completely gotten rid of Kubiak's stuff by now and Trestmans stuff as well. The Ravens tried to change from Power Run to Zone run and failed miserable aside from when Kubiak was here, I'm glad we are done with that experiment, it's not for everyone. Ravens football needs Power to dominate and intimidate.

Just like the Ravens in real life, I ran into some major problems the year after Kubiak left, but I think that was more due to run blocking being broken. Also like the real life Ravens, my run game and offense ended up being a disaster following Trestman. I'll be getting mocked for a long time in my league for leading the league in passing attempts, and throwing so much on the goaline and failing, but that's what Trestman does and it was horrible for the Ravens.

I really liked learning more about Kubiak. My offense was hot fire that year he was here.

Think I've been running the same offense in Madden for almost 10 years, so while the Ravens are always my team, rarely does my team mirror the real life team in terms of scheme. There was that brief period of synergy when Kubiak was the OC though.

This year I am shifting a bit away from zone runs towards more power running, but that is a result of personnel and changes to the game. Jukes just aren't as sharp as they use to be, and I was having major difficulty getting through the cutback lanes. I miss double juking into cutback lanes lol.
So I let West go and inserted Dixon as the feature back, with Woodhead as the 3rd down back and used in a style like the Patriots.

I myself don't think Roman's running offense will work well with the Ravens. I don't think it is a good fit. All his window dressing is meaningless since Flacco is not a threat to run. And while we have great team speed at WR, I don't think any of the WRs would scare defenses on jet sweeps.
I am hoping Perriman stays healthy and makes a small leap, and if so we need to have those 3 fast WRs on the field. So I see our base package being 11, and not the heavy sets Roman has used in the past. I don't care much for cute schemes like Chip Kelly and some of Roman's stuff. Just line up and execute. If we want our running game to excel Flacco has to keep 8 guys out of the box and be able to consistently hit the underneath and intermediate stuff. I am just about fed up with the 3 yard runs and PA fly routes into double coverage.

[manEATgod]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

I'm starting Siragusa as Center( a job he could have had if he didn't go down for the year), Eluemunor at LG and Jensen at RT although I have acquired some nice strong developmental prospects who will make for great maulers once I pour some XP into them.

Double juking isn't as sharp but I like how dangerous Terrence West is, and being from Baltimore, I find it hard to let him go. He even went to Towson too. He's going to be my HB 2 while I look for a real impact starting back. Dixon is going to get plenty of red zone touches but I'm not relying on him with his mediocre durability. Also I'm still peeved that I had to spend last year building him up from 58 catch and 72 carry and so he cost me some games. He's still in my doghouse LOL.

I don't trust Woodhead's durability either but he's going to make for a nice 3rd down RB and as well as being packaged in some of my sets like Spread Y flex. Those HB angles with his 88 route running are legit.

I think Greg Roman's scheme is just what we need. It was working with Alex Smith before Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor. Also one could make the case that Alex Smith or another QB who could actually read defenses and place the ball accurately, would have lasted longer in the system. Kaepernick and Tyrod eventually burned out because they never progressed well enough and still had to rely on their legs. I don't think Roman's scheme needs a mobile QB at all, he's just so great at adapting. I would be lying if I didn't admit that I want to see how Kaep would do with the Ravens and Roman now, but, you know how that goes...

I don't think the window dressing is meaningless, I'm finding this out first hand in Madden. The QB run threat stuff might be meaningless with Flacco and his bum back, but the receiver/blocker motioning works well to disguise what's coming. The new Power O Play action is a big part of this. One of my favorite modifications is changing Power O/Counter/Misdirection Playaction into PA Levels. This way the best defensive users in the online league I play in, who read the blockers to determine whats going on, get thrown for a loop. PA Power has the TE post and the streaks,but if you change it to Levels people won't expect that at all.

I'm also learning from him to act like I'm motioning players for blocking while actually just running Levels, Smash, Switch and Drive. I actually understand why he does the window dressing, first hand now. It's pretty awesome to me.

I think both Maclin and Wallace have the speed and elusiveness to scare opposing defenses. Campanaro and Perriman do too but they are fragile.

I just don't believe Flacco can consistently read and hit the underneath/intermediate stuff. That's OK, I'm fine with that, I'm just not gonna set those expectations for him. I also don't think we have the offensive players necessary to "just line up and execute" , but that's on Ozzie as I'm sure you know.

I think we need Greg Roman, his scheme and window dressing more than ever. In Madden it's really helping me best some of the better defensive users. It's a neutralizer. I'm learning more about football too just by trying to recreate his scheme. We will see tomorrow if it works well in real life for us.

[chunt04]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Has anybody found any articles on the Shanahan offense? It's basically a combo of West Coast and Outside zone runs. I'd love to read more on it and learn more about it.

[xSABOx]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Has anybody found any articles on the Shanahan offense? It's basically a combo of West Coast and Outside zone runs. I'd love to read more on it and learn more about it.

Zone heavy with play action out of two back set... motion like crazy to get matchups... throw traditional 3-5 step passes from under center... mixes in a lot of different formations to keep off balance..

Oh yea, have Julio Jones lol

[ggsimmonds]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

I'm starting Siragusa as Center( a job he could have had if he didn't go down for the year), Eluemunor at LG and Jensen at RT although I have acquired some nice strong developmental prospects who will make for great maulers once I pour some XP into them.

Double juking isn't as sharp but I like how dangerous Terrence West is, and being from Baltimore, I find it hard to let him go. He even went to Towson too. He's going to be my HB 2 while I look for a real impact starting back. Dixon is going to get plenty of red zone touches but I'm not relying on him with his mediocre durability. Also I'm still peeved that I had to spend last year building him up from 58 catch and 72 carry and so he cost me some games. He's still in my doghouse LOL.

I don't trust Woodhead's durability either but he's going to make for a nice 3rd down RB and as well as being packaged in some of my sets like Spread Y flex. Those HB angles with his 88 route running are legit.

I think Greg Roman's scheme is just what we need. It was working with Alex Smith before Kaepernick and Tyrod Taylor. Also one could make the case that Alex Smith or another QB who could actually read defenses and place the ball accurately, would have lasted longer in the system. Kaepernick and Tyrod eventually burned out because they never progressed well enough and still had to rely on their legs. I don't think Roman's scheme needs a mobile QB at all, he's just so great at adapting. I would be lying if I didn't admit that I want to see how Kaep would do with the Ravens and Roman now, but, you know how that goes...

I don't think the window dressing is meaningless, I'm finding this out first hand in Madden. The QB run threat stuff might be meaningless with Flacco and his bum back, but the receiver/blocker motioning works well to disguise what's coming. The new Power O Play action is a big part of this. One of my favorite modifications is changing Power O/Counter/Misdirection Playaction into PA Levels. This way the best defensive users in the online league I play in, who read the blockers to determine whats going on, get thrown for a loop. PA Power has the TE post and the streaks,but if you change it to Levels people won't expect that at all.

I'm also learning from him to act like I'm motioning players for blocking while actually just running Levels, Smash, Switch and Drive. I actually understand why he does the window dressing, first hand now. It's pretty awesome to me.

I think both Maclin and Wallace have the speed and elusiveness to scare opposing defenses. Campanaro and Perriman do too but they are fragile.

I just don't believe Flacco can consistently read and hit the underneath/intermediate stuff. That's OK, I'm fine with that, I'm just not gonna set those expectations for him. I also don't think we have the offensive players necessary to "just line up and execute" , but that's on Ozzie as I'm sure you know.

I think we need Greg Roman, his scheme and window dressing more than ever. In Madden it's really helping me best some of the better defensive users. It's a neutralizer. I'm learning more about football too just by trying to recreate his scheme. We will see tomorrow if it works well in real life for us.

I started my franchise using rosters from before Urschel retired, so my year one line was Stanley, Siragusa, Urschel, Yanda, and like you Jenson at RT. Year 2 I drafted a RT who will start from day 1, and a possible replacement for Yanda at guard. Now I'm getting ready for week 1 and I got a very good run blocking line, but we are subpar in pass protection.

Who did you settle on at TE? I went with Gilmore, but negotiations on an extension went sour and he opted for FA.

Believe me, letting West go was a tough choice, but he also had some durability issues for me, and finished the year below 4.0 in ypc. In limited time Dixon ran much better, though he already missed time in preseason due to injury so I'm a little nervous. I would have rather kept West as my #2, but then I'm stuck with 3 backups. Easier just not to resign him rather than face cap penalties.

Woodhead in particular perplexes me. His physical attributes are similar to the other 2, but whenever I run with him its like he has no burst. He is slow to hit the hole and struggles reaching the edge for me. Almost cut him in preseason but decided against it. I use him also in the Patriots base empty shotgun set.

I actually signed Kap in year 1, but just cut him in year 2.

Anyway on Roman, if a coach starts having too many QBs (Kap and Tyrod) not progress under his watch it raises flags for me. At the end of the day though what makes a great coach is the ability to adapt. If he can adapt his philosophy to our roster, the outlook is good.

Camp would be the best running, and less risk involved if he gets hurt. Still, maybe it is the after taste of the guaranteed failure of Cam calling end arounds from several years back, but I think there are very few WRs that would scare me coming out of the back field (Ross would be one, he is still listed as questionable right?). Most of them fall into a habit of acting like they are fielding a punt and dance too much for my liking.

Window dressing is not meaningless in Madden, but it can be in real life.
Here is a good related read :

https://www.theringer.com/2016/9/9/16036650/chip-kelly-san-francisco-49ers-offense-f332f053870e

Basically NFL defenses learn to ignore all the fluff unless you give them a reason not to.

Obviously Flacco isn't running anywhere, and I'm not big on running WRs, so I think our best bet is clever use of tight ends.

I am really bummed that Maxx is looking like a bust. I think Boyle and Watson are going to be limited in what they can do. They can be good at leaking out and finding holes in zones, but like you have discovered, if we can create problems for the defense by putting them in motion it would help a lot.

I'm also looking forward to seeing what Maclin offers. His top straight line speed isn't all that special, but I do think/hope he has the quickness to gain separation against defenders. We haven't had a reliable route runner since Mason I think. Boldin was great at big-boying defenders and making tough catches, but definitely not at getting separation on the bread and butter routes. And as much as I loved him, Torrey never learned how to run the entire route tree.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: A good read I first discovered many years ago that could some guys with their off

Has anybody found any articles on the Shanahan offense? It's basically a combo of West Coast and Outside zone runs. I'd love to read more on it and learn more about it.

Got a few, but most of them simply state "shanahan is committed to the zone run." Or they talk about the coaching tree without diving into Xs and Os

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/07/AR2010090703670.html?sid=ST2010090801731

https://www.sbnation.com/2014/7/25/5928877/alex-gibbs-seahawks-broncos-texans-nfl-zone-blocking

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2072415-nfl-101-introducing-the-zone-running-game

(^^^I strongly recommend anyone to read all of Bowen's 101 series. He breaks all the fundamentals down in easy to understand language.)

On top of what sabo already said, it is not just any PA. The Shanahans love their bootlegs.