Could Madden ever have true role players?

[TMJOHNS18]

Watching another Sunday's worth of football has made me look at one of Madden's limitations yet again. In the perfect world sports games would reflect their true life counterparts. But, they don't. It's almost impossible to recreate the crazy world of sports, some games do it well, some games don't.

When it comes to Madden there is clear disconnect between game day and the game in many ways, one of them being the 'role player'. Watching games this week I once again see guys like D'Onta Foreman, James White, Duke Johnson, blocking TE's, Tavon Austin, Mathew Slater, etc. who are role/situational players who are not rated high enough to be starters but play a significant role for their respective teams.

These guys and many others are the reason a team rosters 53 players, but Madden doesn't reflect this in its current state. Sure human players can use formation subs in a way to replicate it, but the CPU will always default to OVR and never differentiate between player strengths.

Look at Tarik Cohen of the Bears. He's quick, agile, can catch, and is explosive. But at this stage of his career he isn't an overall stud RB (or he could be but hasn't been given the playing time to see). Yet he only gets a handful of touches and a portion of snaps each week. In Madden's current state he'd be a pure backup who would only be given opportunities on third down (if he is rated the highest 3RDB) or if Howard is injured.

In its current state Madden clearly can't incorporate role players. But, could it ever? American Football is a very complex sport, outside of multiple depth charts for multiple situations, it would seem unlikely to happen.

[raypace1]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

They are capable of doing it but I don't think they have any intentions of doing it.. It'd be nice to see slot and nickel positions but it's too much extra work for them..


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[reyes the roof]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

I feel like they'd mess it up if they tried this. You'd see things like Von Miller being subbed out for a pass rushing specialist

[rplatypus]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

I don't think it would be that hard. Using NBA2k's badge system would be a fairly simple way. Assign a badge/role to a player and if you are using them outside of that role they would receive a drop in attributes. For instance if you have a nickel back assigned to the outside they would decrease. If you have a 3rd down running back lining up in the I formation on 1st and 2nd downs, he would be less effective. Assign star players a star badge/role so that they never are subbed out except if they are out of stamina. I think they were on to something in Madden 07 and 12 with player roles, they just needed to expand it more than just the increase in trade value that most of the roles effected.

I wouldn't mind seeing a potential attribute coming back either. A single number wouldn't work but 3 potential numbers would be cool. Max, likely and floor potential might provide a welcome change. If the player ever reaches his max or floor that number could increase or decrease after they spent a season at that number. They would have to tier it based on overall meaning it would be much slower to increase a player that reached his 92 overall max potential than a player that reached his 82 max. A HOF type player hitting his floor would cause a retirement the following season. Doing this for attributes would be amazing as well. Tired of seeing aging Qb's with 74 Throw Power in the league after a few seasons.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

Its difficult because so many of the nonstarters are underrated.

[Zack317]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

I don't think it would be that hard. Using NBA2k's badge system would be a fairly simple way. Assign a badge/role to a player and if you are using them outside of that role they would receive a drop in attributes. For instance if you have a nickel back assigned to the outside they would decrease. If you have a 3rd down running back lining up in the I formation on 1st and 2nd downs, he would be less effective. Assign star players a star badge/role so that they never are subbed out except if they are out of stamina. I think they were on to something in Madden 07 and 12 with player roles, they just needed to expand it more than just the increase in trade value that most of the roles effected.

I wouldn't mind seeing a potential attribute coming back either. A single number wouldn't work but 3 potential numbers would be cool. Max, likely and floor potential might provide a welcome change. If the player ever reaches his max or floor that number could increase or decrease after they spent a season at that number. They would have to tier it based on overall meaning it would be much slower to increase a player that reached his 92 overall max potential than a player that reached his 82 max. A HOF type player hitting his floor would cause a retirement the following season. Doing this for attributes would be amazing as well. Tired of seeing aging Qb's with 74 Throw Power in the league after a few seasons.

I like the idea of the badges and specific roles

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[Haze88]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

Madden is too binary for this. Positions are too rigid due to online guys crying so long and ratings mattering so little over the years that they could never properly balance anything. Despite them mentioning it in-game on commentary, we still don't have Sam/Will linebackers, we still don't have slot designations for CBs/WRs, and player differentiation ends at the numbers next to their ratings since everyone has the exact same animations. Even the ratings aren't separated enough seeing as NBA 2k has open/contested/standing/moving ratings for shot types while Madden still has pass rush moves set to power/finesse with no nuance at all to spins, rips, bullrushes, etc. We have a long way to go to get the players even feeling unique as is, before we start getting into role players, gadget guys, and hybrids

[Matthew25x]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

Madden used to have player roles. I thought they were a pretty cool idea at the time but they didnt keep up with it. Then it disappeared. Then it came back. Then it disappeared again

Here's a link that shows the Player Roles from Madden 2008.

http://www.neoseeker.com/madden-nfl-...6836-role.html

Its depressing thinking back on all those previous Maddens. The player roles, the newspapers, the Tony Bruno show.. Franchise modes were much more engaging back then. Now nobody at EA really seems to care about making any sort of enjoyable experience with this game mode.

[artofperfection]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

They do in some cases have this already. For instance in some playbooks the positions for a certain formation are not just based on ovr. I believe it's the Patriots defensive playbook, the 2-4-5 nickel formation uses the backup ROLB as one of the 2 inside linebackers.


3DRB is similar, but could be expanded.


I wish the cup would utilize formation subs more often. It would make for a more authentic feel.

[Haze88]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

They do in some cases have this already. For instance in some playbooks the positions for a certain formation are not just based on ovr. I believe it's the Patriots defensive playbook, the 2-4-5 nickel formation uses the backup ROLB as one of the 2 inside linebackers.


3DRB is similar, but could be expanded.


I wish the cup would utilize formation subs more often. It would make for a more authentic feel.

Madden has some preset packages in team playbooks. I know Atlanta had OLB rush in Nickel by default for Vic Beasley. But there is no formation in the Pats book like that, unless you are referring to the 3-3-5 odd which is 2 MLBs and an OLB shifted down to a DE-like position. Custom packages need to return

[Rebel10]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

It's a great idea that is critical to NFL football but we'll likely never see it. Madden has gotten slightly better at positional ratings, over the last 10 years, but we'll never get close to emulating how in actual game plays.

In Madden, for the most part, your team is as good as your starters. In the NFL, for the most part, your team is as good as your bench. It's a sport where bench depth matters more than any other major north American sport (maybe Hockey takes the cake here...).

All teams suffer bad injuries every year, but the teams that usually go onto playoff and Super Bowl success are the teams that still have injuries but have depth to off-set them. If you look at the snap counts of players in the NFL, it's just much more diverse than Madden will ever give you, and it's typically not a stamina issue. Guys coming on and off of the field on every play. On every play there are significant number of substitutions on the NFL. It's why hurry up / quick tempo / change tempo offenses are so popular, because it doesn't give nearly enough time to make substitutions.

Matthew Slater has been to six straight pro-bowls. He's a guy who Bill Belichick, arguably the greatest coach of all time, values more highly than nearly any other player on the roster. Likewise, players like Tevin Coleman v. Devonta Freeman. Freeman is an incredible talent, one of the best running backs in the NFL, but if Tevin Coleman were healthy for that late drive for Atlanta, Atlanta would have won the super bowl because Coleman does blitz pickup better than Freeman. Madden will never be able to account for players like this. Generally every back picks up the blitz about equal in Madden... but imagine if in Simulation playstyle, pass blocking ratings really mattered, so a back like Dion Lewis was significantly better at blitz pickup than someone else, so it made you really think about who to sub in?

Madden generally lacks any situational changes to the game, which might be the most significant aspect of managing an NFL game. I doubt we'll ever see anything added because they lack a committment to the sim-style of the game, but it's a nice thought experiment.

[artofperfection]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

Madden has some preset packages in team playbooks. I know Atlanta had OLB rush in Nickel by default for Vic Beasley. But there is no formation in the Pats book like that, unless you are referring to the 3-3-5 odd which is 2 MLBs and an OLB shifted down to a DE-like position. Custom packages need to return

It may be the Jets. One of them is screwy. In order to get the guy I want at that position I have to either formation sub him, or put him as #2 ROLB in my depth chart. I thought it was NE though. I can check again when I have a chance.

[R8ders24]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

Not if EA has anything to do with it

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[timhere1970]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

It wouldn't be hard to implement some of this. Just need some optional depth chart positions. Third down ends and such. I have done some of this myself through formations subs and reserve certain sets for specific situations. You have to do your own playcalling for it to work. The built in playcalling in madden is not sufficient on defense as it is incapable of considering down and distance. Which, is a huge part of football strategy.

[fballturkey]

Re: Could Madden ever have true role players?

You can do this somewhat right now with package substitutions, assuming you’re playing out your games. I do it frequently to get my Cohenesque RB into the game for screens/etc.

What we need are custom packages. Many of them are weird right now, like how putting in your RB2 also flips your WRs. Let me pick if I want a weird package with like a certain TE out wide and the RB lined up at slot. That would help us do a lot of the things we want to do.

The other side of it is player ratings like people have mentioned. Madden just doesn’t have a good enough rating system, especially on defense, for role players. You have it a little bit on offense because there’s power backs, speed backs, Redzone type WRs (though height needs to matter more,) etc, but on D it’s almost always a binary better/worse thing.