Ground game and stamina watching

[Trillz]

At high level grappling, there is more stamina watching and waiting for a move for your opponent. I feel this will change alot more if stamina bar was hidden.

Once u miss a denial they are instantly going to make their move and if you dont make a move they will wait on top until you do to deny!

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

In theory, I guess I could see how someone would think this is how high level ground play goes, but in reality it doesn't.

Yes, sometimes there is waiting but not every time. Real high level play involves faking transitions and another thing you forgot that makes transitions easier to execute and not be denied, grapple advantage. GA allows you to build up if the opponent is just waiting. Or even better if they strike from the postured position so you can block and gain even more.

Another thing is momentum advantage which will get you out of tough spots unless they preemptively deny.

One thing I will agree with though is having a big stat advantage can turn it into a waiting game. If you have Khabib it can be almost impossible to get off the bottom. But, Edson vs. Conor would never be like that.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

I would say that it can feel this way if you stop throwing strikes. Like if you both decide to try and have a Jiu-Jitsu match, as some of my friends did in UFC 2, it becomes really hard to do anything without transition faking.

[Haz____]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

As a guy who is obsessed with BJJ, the ground game in EA UFC 2-3 is by far the most video gamey aspect of the game.

I basically avoid the ground in these games, which is crazy because i'm obsessed with grappling IRL.

"Grapple Advantage" is one of most unrealistic, video gamey, bogus mechanics i've ever seen.

Horribly animated "fakes"....

OP is right.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

In theory, I guess I could see how someone would think this is how high level ground play goes, but in reality it doesn't.

Yes, sometimes there is waiting but not every time. Real high level play involves faking transitions and another thing you forgot that makes transitions easier to execute and not be denied, grapple advantage. GA allows you to build up if the opponent is just waiting. Or even better if they strike from the postured position so you can block and gain even more.

Another thing is momentum advantage which will get you out of tough spots unless they preemptively deny.

One thing I will agree with though is having a big stat advantage can turn it into a waiting game. If you have Khabib it can be almost impossible to get off the bottom. But, Edson vs. Conor would never be like that.

Lol, one of my last beta fights I was Connor, against a pretty good Tony, he went for an Iminari, I denied and got mount.. and proceeded a hold him down and punch him up for the rest of the round, all he could do was spam rubber guard (couldn't for the life of me deny it) but he knew how to deny, and once I saw that did turn into a waiting game a little, od throw little strikes for GA (because.. that makes sense lol) and get half, he'd deny side, fake back sitting, go for guard, I'd deny. This went on and on.

Round 2, I'm thinking okay, stalemate, he won't try and take me down, let's strike, few exchanges later he rolls on a heelhook, I deny, mount, side, let him roll to sprawl, then he went to standup with 0 stam and apparently Connor has the guillotine reversal.

It was odd. But I have to agree, I learnt all my ground game offline. So transition fakes are the weakest part of my ground game in 2-3, the rest is muscle memory, its all pretty much easy at this point (denials, subs, ect) and matches against good players can stale out into waiting games, but the few reeeeally good players I've had have actually reminded me how fun the grappling system can be, very fast paced yet tactical. I usually survive, but can't mount much significant offense, unless they rely on the same fakes and I time them.

Rubber guard spam is still a problem.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yo1NUdmaT54

10:45 of that video.

Ryan Hall talks about how high level BJJ is about patience/ not over exposing yourself.

If anything the game got that part right.

Strikes affecting GA is supposed to symbolize your opponent’s reacting to the strikes which opens up your ground game.

One thing i HATE is fakes shouldnt be able to be denied but they should use more stamina to prevent spam. Everything on the ground should use more long term stamina

[MMAFRoO]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

There's not enough stamina drain (for bottom fighter) when you make someone work beneath you, deny his transitions, posture up to work the body etc.
There should be levels to this.
Sit in Full Guard/Half Guard Top, deny transitions = smallest stamina drain for BOTTOM
Side Control/BSC/Side Sattle= middle stamina drain
Mount/Crucifix/Back Mount/Back Sitting= highest stamina drain.

It will reward players more to constantly moving on top and not sit around for points in easy controlable positions.
Nah?

[Boiler569]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

At high level grappling, there is more stamina watching and waiting for a move for your opponent. I feel this will change alot more if stamina bar was hidden.

Once u miss a denial they are instantly going to make their move and if you dont make a move they will wait on top until you do to deny!

we need some new transition options on the ground

(I love the new side control option as an example!!!....but, could use several more options in the various positions)

Also, one thing I really miss about EA MMA was Minor Transitons vs. Major Transitions.

You could be methodical and go from Guard to Half Guard to Mount ----

Or try to pass directly from Guard to Side Control (or even Mount if I recall) in one attempt!

Of course, that was much more difficult than the methodical way of doing things. But that ability to go for the base hit or go for the home run helped make things dynamic.

Making the ground game dynamic instead of static = key for longevity of this game in my book ---- people will get tired of the standup eventually

[Mossfan8480]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

As a guy who is obsessed with BJJ, the ground game in EA UFC 2-3 is by far the most video gamey aspect of the game.

I basically avoid the ground in these games, which is crazy because i'm obsessed with grappling IRL.

"Grapple Advantage" is one of most unrealistic, video gamey, bogus mechanics i've ever seen.

Horribly animated "fakes"....

OP is right.

Yes! It's almost like the game was made by the fans who BOO every time there's a clinch or take down. Stand and bang, bro, is all I wanted to do during the beta because the clinch felt like it was stuck in mud, and the grappling felt like a mini-game in an MMA mobile app that you download and delete after taking a dump.

Maybe EA needs to bring in Sportchangers in addition to Gamechangers to make sure the game is actually playing like the sport it's supposed to emulate. It's so frustrating that this is what we present to casual fans/videogamers as a representation of our sport. It only encourages the belief that the ground is boring, and the only exciting fights are the one's on the feet.

[Abstrakt fists]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

Yes! It's almost like the game was made by the fans who BOO every time there's a clinch or take down. Stand and bang, bro, is all I wanted to do during the beta because the clinch felt like it was stuck in mud, and the grappling felt like a mini-game in an MMA mobile app that you download and delete after taking a dump.

Maybe EA needs to bring in Sportchangers in addition to Gamechangers to make sure the game is actually playing like the sport it's supposed to emulate. It's so frustrating that this is what we present to casual fans/videogamers as a representation of our sport. It only encourages the belief that the ground is boring, and the only exciting fights are the one's on the feet.

Agreed, as a guy who has done BJJ for close to 20 years I hate the ground game on all 3 EA UFC games. It is repetitive, slow and boring for representing one of the most fun and exciting sports in the world. Filling up bars and laying there waiting for your opponent to transition is not representative in the least of the 10-20 things going on at once in real grappling. Plus I can go 20 minutes straight on the ground without gassing, it isn't even tiring to get a transition denied, the only thing that is tiring is a failed submission attempt or a ground and pound beating.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

Nothing about how the ground is executed in EA UFC is interesting at all, nor is it skillful. The game of watching bars fill up just doesn't do it for me. I really don't see how guys who primarily play on the ground take much satisfaction in it.

You don't know how much I would love to shoot for takedowns, take people down, and do some work in these games. I'm a striker at heart, but I enjoy watching Jiu-Jitsu very much. It's just so poorly done that it kills my interest.

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[The Relaxed Guy]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

The meta for the grappling on EA UFC 2 (and presumably EA UFC 3) will always reward patience. Being said, I feel UFC 3's meta for high level grappling is going to be slightly more active, since non-GA transitions are faster and passing guard (or retaining it) can generally be done without spending excessive time building GA


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[Trillz]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

Also they need to get rid of the GA bar for UT and ranked!

[godway]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

As a guy who is obsessed with BJJ, the ground game in EA UFC 2-3 is by far the most video gamey aspect of the game.

I basically avoid the ground in these games, which is crazy because i'm obsessed with grappling IRL.

"Grapple Advantage" is one of most unrealistic, video gamey, bogus mechanics i've ever seen.

Horribly animated "fakes"....

OP is right.

And besides all of that, probably half (if not more) of the animations you see on the ground in these games, you'll never or very rarely see in a real UFC fight. There's such a weightlessness when it comes to the ground game. Calling it "video gamey" is the perfect term.

Anyone can do anything to anyone on the ground. Want to do a triangle choke? Just hold a stick. And your legs will wrap around your opponents head. Because triangle chokes are super simple like that. Want to stand up from your back, grab your opponents leg, and take him down into his guard in one stupid animation? Just deny, and you get all of that from denying, no matter what yours or their stamina or physical condition or skill level is.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: Ground game and stamina watching

In theory, I guess I could see how someone would think this is how high level ground play goes, but in reality it doesn't.

Yes, sometimes there is waiting but not every time. Real high level play involves faking transitions and another thing you forgot that makes transitions easier to execute and not be denied, grapple advantage. GA allows you to build up if the opponent is just waiting. Or even better if they strike from the postured position so you can block and gain even more.

Another thing is momentum advantage which will get you out of tough spots unless they preemptively deny.

One thing I will agree with though is having a big stat advantage can turn it into a waiting game. If you have Khabib it can be almost impossible to get off the bottom. But, Edson vs. Conor would never be like that.

As someone who trains BJJ as well I'm not looking to see if my opponent is gassed or not (that's very apparent when it happens). I am looking for finishes and I don't care how much "stamina" my opponent has I'm going for a finish if it's available and their cardio level has little to no bearing as to whether or not I'll get the finish (if it's available).

The stamina bar should be hidden and should be mindful of how many denies you've landed - how much body work you've done. It's absolutely silly that you can see exactly where the opponent is at and target subs based upon this soley.