This whole "Finish" issue

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  • YourFatZebra
    Rookie
    • Nov 2017
    • 320

    #1

    This whole "Finish" issue

    I understand the point that Rogan and others made about the portrayal of the sport in UFC 2 when you could just smash a knocked out fighter way more than necessary.

    But watching Aholbert stream the game and seeing Bisping hit him with a two punch combo, in the middle of a brawl sequence, and then being in the victory cutscene less than 10 seconds later just felt so jarring and sudden. The ref couldn't possibly determine that he was KO'd from the way he fell in literally 2 seconds. That's just not how it works. Bisping would have realistically had time to swarm in on him to hit him two or three more times before the ref got there.

    This may seem nitpicky to the devs who are more focused on other things, but this is directly related to the KO issue from the beta, which thankfully was solved.

    It deflates the entire energy the fight previously had built up when you clock someone and you're in the victory cutscene before he even hits the ground. Not to mention fights like Ngannou v. Overeem where the fighter DOES land another shot once the opponent is KO'd. Creating a positive perception of an objectively violent sport should not be the priority when creating a game to simulate that sport. That's like trying to make a war simulator and removing blood, headshot damage, explosions and such.

    Let me put it this way.
    I can go to play GTA 5 right now, in first person shoot someone in the gut with a shotgun and that AI will scream, writhe in pain, and then go limp as they actually die.

    That is disturbing but it's still allowed in one of the top selling video games of all time. I just think it's a little ridiculous I'm able to spin kick someone to sleep, pound them into oblivion in full mount, or choke them out but god forbid I land one more punch extra. Just robs all the intensity from a good fight when the finish is so lackluster. It's what it would feel like to perform a boring fatality after an awesome fight in MK.
  • Nugget7211
    MVP
    • Nov 2017
    • 1401

    #2
    Re: This whole "Finish" issue

    The problem was never that you might land one. It's that you'd regularly land like 8 on a very, very clearly unconscious dude, and then the fighter gets bored and walks off of their own accord. Which is terrible from a realism perspective and a representation of the sport perspective. I agree that they over-corrected, but it's not like 2 was great or anything.

    This is a problem I don't expect to go away until ref interaction is added, we'll probably be at either end of the spectrum until then.
    **** off, Nugget7211 - GPD, 2017 & 2018
    Internet Hero - Jack Slack, 2018

    Comment

    • YourFatZebra
      Rookie
      • Nov 2017
      • 320

      #3
      Re: This whole "Finish" issue

      Originally posted by Nugget7211
      The problem was never that you might land one. It's that you'd regularly land like 8 on a very, very clearly unconscious dude, and then the fighter gets bored and walks off of their own accord. Which is terrible from a realism perspective and a representation of the sport perspective. I agree that they over-corrected, but it's not like 2 was great or anything.

      This is a problem I don't expect to go away until ref interaction is added, we'll probably be at either end of the spectrum until then.
      Oh no I'm not saying that EA UFC 2 was any better. It's worse objectively because of what you just laid out. It's almost like the ref isn't even there then and the fighter just decides "I'm done" and leaves.

      Now though, it's almost as if every fight I see ends with a standing walkoff KO. Which is so uncommon in real life, even finishes that could classify as a KO usually have the winning fighter attempting to swarm in some sort of way.

      I think you nailed it when you say they overcorrected. There's a middle ground between UFC 2 and 3 that hopefully is either patched into 3 or reached by the time we get 4.


      EDIT:
      Just saw Aholbert playing Santiago V. Oliviera and the fight ended with one of the "Finish the Fight" animations. That was much better than seeing the opponent just die on his feet. If some middle ground could be found between that and the walkoff KO's that are too common, it would be perfect.
      Last edited by YourFatZebra; 01-24-2018, 06:44 PM.

      Comment

      • Stealthhh
        Pro
        • Nov 2017
        • 516

        #4
        Re: This whole "Finish" issue

        If the devs could just add the ability to at least throw one or two shots after the opponent gets KO'ed and cut to a cutscene right after that. Showing the ref pull off the fighter or push them, into the winner's victory celebration, I think that would be a good fix imo. That would eliminate the over exaggerated amount of punches to a downed opponent that we saw in UFC 2, and would look a hell of a lot better than what we have right now. Also it would get rid of the KO auto camera snap that is still present in the game.

        Comment

        • RD_Rico
          Rookie
          • Aug 2016
          • 49

          #5
          Re: This whole "Finish" issue

          I feel it cuts away too quickly, I’d like to have those few seconds after the KO like ufc 2. If you attempt to strike the KO’d opponent there should be a ref interception animation. Seems simple, then again i don’t know how to make video games.

          Comment

          • manliest_Man
            MVP
            • May 2016
            • 1203

            #6
            Re: This whole "Finish" issue

            The best way i can describe what happens after a fight ends with a walk-off KO in EA UFC 3, is through this corellation:

            EDIT: I had a NSFW joke explanation here, but it got removed, so ignore this comment.


            That's exactly what's happening with the current state of the KO system and it's wrong on so many levels... It definitely needs to be patched one way or another in this game.

            If you think ref interactions will be the solution to this, then so be it. Wether they get the money to do that, from the game's sales or the game's Ultimate Team microtransactions . One thing is certain, the current system we have is imply unacceptable and needs to be added in this game.
            Last edited by manliest_Man; 01-24-2018, 07:45 PM. Reason: Warning others that something is NSFW doesn't mean it still isn't subject to the TOS.

            Comment

            • tissues250
              MVP
              • Apr 2016
              • 1526

              #7
              Re: This whole "Finish" issue

              the best solution is they would allowed just two shots after KOed and add refs interaction animation in that time like REAL LIFE but it will be coming EA UFC4. Walk off after KO should be optional for users.
              Last edited by tissues250; 01-24-2018, 08:23 PM.

              Comment

              • Serengeti1
                MVP
                • Mar 2016
                • 1720

                #8
                Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                Yup. Definitely in agreement. I don't know why anybody wouldn't be if you want realism. Straight KO's are okay sometimes but should happen like maybe 20% of the time. Generally, you should get a shot or two in before the ref dives in to push you out the way. Sometimes more if the opponent is attempting to defend themselves or isn't completely unconscious. Adding ref interaction would be the way to solve this. You'd want the ref pulling the fighter off when landing a punch or two on a completely unconscious opponent.

                Also, if a guy is hurt and defending himself but not trying to improve position... the ref should pull the other fighter off.

                Comment

                • mikenyc721
                  Rookie
                  • Dec 2017
                  • 71

                  #9
                  Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                  I had posted something about this in the other thread. Ref interaction needs to be implemented fights end so abruptly and kills arguably the best moment of a fight. With all the good they have done for this game it sucks that its the ending of a fight they had to screw up!! Finish the fight needs to be patched in 70% ftf animation 30% walk off knockouts would be more realistic or add a animation of the ref stoping the fight after 1-2 punches on a knocked out opponent! I don't wanna beat a dead horse but now you may as well have the ref start a 10 count like boxing!! This is a mma game and hitting a downed fighter is a part of the sport and it should be portrayed as such.

                  Comment

                  • iHazCode
                    Rookie
                    • May 2016
                    • 397

                    #10
                    Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                    Originally posted by mikenyc721
                    I had posted something about this in the other thread. Ref interaction needs to be implemented fights end so abruptly and kills arguably the best moment of a fight. With all the good they have done for this game it sucks that its the ending of a fight they had to screw up!! Finish the fight needs to be patched in 70% ftf animation 30% walk off knockouts would be more realistic or add a animation of the ref stoping the fight after 1-2 punches on a knocked out opponent! I don't wanna beat a dead horse but now you may as well have the ref start a 10 count like boxing!! This is a mma game and hitting a downed fighter is a part of the sport and it should be portrayed as such.
                    +1

                    One of the most EPIC oversights in a modern sports title that aims for realism.. It'd be like if NBA2k the game stopped when you go for a buzzer beater, because they didn't have time to add logic to allow that last shot or determine if the ball left the players hand before the quarter was over.

                    Comment

                    • Haz____
                      Omaewa mou shindeiru
                      • Apr 2016
                      • 4023

                      #11
                      Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                      Simple solution.

                      ---------
                      KO happens.

                      RNG a number from 0 - 3.

                      After that many strikes, the fight ends.
                      ---------

                      Seems like a much better option than just removing the feature completely....

                      Super simple solution to everyone's problems. It's not overly brutal or savage. It more accurately represents what happens in real life. It's simple & cheap to implement. Doesn't require extra ref animations.


                      If the problem was landing 10 strikes to a lifeless body. Don't let us land that many strikes.
                      PSN: Lord__Hazanko

                      Just an average player, with a passion for Martial Arts & Combat Sports

                      Comment

                      • YourFatZebra
                        Rookie
                        • Nov 2017
                        • 320

                        #12
                        Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                        Originally posted by iHazCode
                        +1

                        One of the most EPIC oversights in a modern sports title that aims for realism.. It'd be like if NBA2k the game stopped when you go for a buzzer beater, because they didn't have time to add logic to allow that last shot or determine if the ball left the players hand before the quarter was over.
                        That is an amazing comparison.
                        That's exactly what it is for real.
                        Or if you were playing Madden and snapped the ball with :05 seconds left but the game was just like "Nah man. Too bad. I don't care that you passed it almost instantly". I'm not too familiar with the rules of Football, but as far as I remember if the ball is in play, it's in play til it hits the ground or the dude holding it hits the ground. That'd be like the game just ending it anyways.

                        Originally posted by Haz____
                        Simple solution.

                        ---------
                        KO happens.

                        RNG a number from 0 - 3.

                        After that many strikes, the fight ends.
                        ---------

                        Seems like a much better option than just removing the feature completely....

                        Super simple solution to everyone's problems. It's not overly brutal or savage. It more accurately represents what happens in real life. It's simple & cheap to implement. Doesn't require extra ref animations.


                        If the problem was landing 10 strikes to a lifeless body. Don't let us land that many strikes.
                        Yeah because everyone brings up the ref animations and for some reason the Devs make that out like it's decoding a secret language or designing hovercraft. So we'll never get that.

                        At least your idea circumvents their unwillingness to add Ref/Doctor interaction for whatever arbitrary reason they give.

                        Comment

                        • Nekrotik
                          Rookie
                          • Nov 2017
                          • 288

                          #13
                          Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                          Knockouts still look extremely repetitive and rigid.
                          Basically the same as UFC 1.

                          I'm really disappointed, it's a huge step back from UFC2. The KO animations in UFC2 were amazing in comparison (aside from the occasional ridiculousness).

                          Comment

                          • lbnt149
                            Rookie
                            • Apr 2016
                            • 353

                            #14
                            Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                            Originally posted by Haz____
                            Simple solution.

                            ---------
                            KO happens.

                            RNG a number from 0 - 3.

                            After that many strikes, the fight ends.
                            ---------

                            Seems like a much better option than just removing the feature completely....

                            Super simple solution to everyone's problems. It's not overly brutal or savage. It more accurately represents what happens in real life. It's simple & cheap to implement. Doesn't require extra ref animations.


                            If the problem was landing 10 strikes to a lifeless body. Don't let us land that many strikes.
                            This, along with simply drastically decreasing the amount of KOs that happen and replace them with the most severe knock-downs so we can finish the fight ourselves, is the best solution easilyso far

                            Comment

                            • iHazCode
                              Rookie
                              • May 2016
                              • 397

                              #15
                              Re: This whole "Finish" issue

                              Originally posted by lbnt149
                              This, along with simply drastically decreasing the amount of KOs that happen and replace them with the most severe knock-downs so we can finish the fight ourselves, is the best solution easilyso far
                              Definitely, and in these rare cases where the fighter is SO VERY KNOCKED OUT, that everyone, the fighter, the refs, the crowd and camera crews know it's a wrap. Basically before he even hits the ground (that's how it seems currently). Why the h*ll are they there for the hand raising?

                              If they are that KO'd, I think 90% of the time they SHOULD NOT be available for the hand raising. That dude is basically on Pluto still.

                              Comment

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