Football coach who is losing his mind

[blockdownkickout]

Let’s open this up by saying that I’m a football junkie. Books. Film. Clinic talks. I love them. I soak them up. As a player I was looking at those books reading how to block outside zone. Watching how the run and shoot works. Reading “how to coach a pro style offense”. All kinds of football knowledge I know varyingly. I am a high school offensive coordinator who lives to coach football and madden infuriates me. Nothings worse than making your custom play book. Having your checks and audibles. Coming to your line checking the front and changing your play at the line to attack their defense. Then, because something screws up on madden or something completely unrealistic happens you lose yards, and eventually lose the game. On all pro, the game left to its own devices (meaning no one user Controlling players) the blocks will set up nicely most of the time. However, any true competitor doesn’t want to play a computer. He wants to play someone. He wants a chess match.
Is there a league out there where I can play with people that aren’t looking to play it like an arcade game? Is there a league where they don’t allow players to use the “show blitz” button that distorts the defense to be wildly out of position yet I can’t attack it because the madden video game doesn’t allow you to. I just want to play people like that. Is that possible?


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[adembroski]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

There will be for '19. I'll be recruiting for and running a league then. I do know of a league that is fair and fun while vaguely sim as is practical if you're interested.

FYI, I'd take exception to your characterization that show-blitz is not sim. Most NFL teams show a false shell until a certain point on the play-clock, and if they're out of shell at the snap, it's your responsibility to diagnose and exploit that.

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[jsuess21]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Check out jabbolabs dot com (I can't post websites due to minimal posts). Good competition and mostly SIM. Leagues advance every 48 hours. 2 leagues were just rebooted a couple weeks ago and are just over halfway through the first season. I've been enjoying it for the 2 years I've been participating.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Let’s open this up by saying that I’m a football junkie. Books. Film. Clinic talks. I love them. I soak them up. As a player I was looking at those books reading how to block outside zone. Watching how the run and shoot works. Reading “how to coach a pro style offense”. All kinds of football knowledge I know varyingly. I am a high school offensive coordinator who lives to coach football and madden infuriates me. Nothings worse than making your custom play book. Having your checks and audibles. Coming to your line checking the front and changing your play at the line to attack their defense. Then, because something screws up on madden or something completely unrealistic happens you lose yards, and eventually lose the game. On all pro, the game left to its own devices (meaning no one user Controlling players) the blocks will set up nicely most of the time. However, any true competitor doesn’t want to play a computer. He wants to play someone. He wants a chess match.
Is there a league out there where I can play with people that aren’t looking to play it like an arcade game? Is there a league where they don’t allow players to use the “show blitz” button that distorts the defense to be wildly out of position yet I can’t attack it because the madden video game doesn’t allow you to. I just want to play people like that. Is that possible?


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This is the best I have seen. But they may be too much for a lot of people.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NEFL18

Look at their rules, especially the “In Game Conduct” section.

http://theneweraleague.proboards.com/thread/334/new-football-league-official-rulebook

An example:





The rules are VERY in depth. But as I said, this is the best Sim league I have seen. Many people won’t like it, but you seem to be the right type for them.

[TMJOHNS18]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Having a lot of rules doesn't make a league more 'sim' than another, although it helps to weed out certain players.

At this point in the cycle I'd say join a few leagues with openings and see how it goes. You might find one that works, or maybe get an idea of a the type of league you want to commit to. Users tend to drop in them but getting in before it ramps up for next release helps.

The most fun in leagues I've had centered around the core group of guys in them, which helped introduce me to other existing or newly forming leagues. Ultimately it was more enjoyable because I was playing with a group that messed well with my own play style. Having not played in a user cfm this year has been a bummer for sure.

So try some leagues out, see what you like. Dive in, give a few a shot, network, and hopefully you'll find a good fit or good compromise soon/by M19.

[blockdownkickout]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

There will be for '19. I'll be recruiting for and running a league then. I do know of a league that is fair and fun while vaguely sim as is practical if you're interested.

FYI, I'd take exception to your characterization that show-blitz is not sim. Most NFL teams show a false shell until a certain point on the play-clock, and if they're out of shell at the snap, it's your responsibility to diagnose and exploit that.

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I wouldn’t have an issue with it if they fixed it.
Example.
Cover 2. Safeties have deep halves. If you push show Blitz, the safety on one side comes down to close to the line of scrimmage. That’s horrifically out of position, and should be a touchdown every time, but it’s not. The safety can usually make the play which would never happen in real life. Same thing with cover 4.

In addition to that the Corners roll up to the Wide Receivers, but they don’t press(push them, put hands on them). To play a WR that close you would have to immediately turn your hips and sprint down the field with him and any curl/sail/etc route would be easy money. However the Corners are able to play all of it which is why “show blitz” is something advanced players use often because there’s no negative.

Yes NFL/NCAA/NFHS teams will try to hide what coverage they are in, but it comes at a cost. Madden doesn’t apply a cost.


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[blockdownkickout]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

I wouldn’t have an issue with it if they fixed it.
Example.
Cover 2. Safeties have deep halves. If you push show Blitz, the safety on one side comes down to close to the line of scrimmage. That’s horrifically out of position, and should be a touchdown every time, but it’s not. The safety can usually make the play which would never happen in real life. Same thing with cover 4.

In addition to that the Corners roll up to the Wide Receivers, but they don’t press(push them, put hands on them). To play a WR that close you would have to immediately turn your hips and sprint down the field with him and any curl/sail/etc route would be easy money. However the Corners are able to play all of it which is why “show blitz” is something advanced players use often because there’s no negative.

Yes NFL/NCAA/NFHS teams will try to hide what coverage they are in, but it comes at a cost. Madden doesn’t apply a cost.


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So yes. The principle of show blitz is real. The game just botched it up.


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[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

I wouldn’t have an issue with it if they fixed it.
Example.
Cover 2. Safeties have deep halves. If you push show Blitz, the safety on one side comes down to close to the line of scrimmage. That’s horrifically out of position, and should be a touchdown every time, but it’s not. The safety can usually make the play which would never happen in real life. Same thing with cover 4.

I've seen this done in an NFL game. I've also seen it down in cover three where the middle linebacker came to the line and feined a blitz before bailing at full speed and taking a deep third (Julian Peterson used to do this on the 49ers).

In addition to that the Corners roll up to the Wide Receivers, but they don’t press(push them, put hands on them). To play a WR that close you would have to immediately turn your hips and sprint down the field with him and any curl/sail/etc route would be easy money. However the Corners are able to play all of it which is why “show blitz” is something advanced players use often because there’s no negative.

Yes NFL/NCAA/NFHS teams will try to hide what coverage they are in, but it comes at a cost. Madden doesn’t apply a cost.


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That is very true, especially against the CPU.

[blockdownkickout]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

I've seen this done in an NFL game. I've also seen it down in cover three where the middle linebacker came to the line and feined a blitz before bailing at full speed and taking a deep third (Julian Peterson used to do this on the 49ers).




That is very true, especially against the CPU.

I wouldn’t have a problem if they bailed at full speed because that would leave things open, but they back pedal and normally can still make the play.


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[adembroski]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

This is the best I have seen. But they may be too much for a lot of people.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NEFL18

Look at their rules, especially the “In Game Conduct” section.

http://theneweraleague.proboards.com/thread/334/new-football-league-official-rulebook

An example:





The rules are VERY in depth. But as I said, this is the best Sim league I have seen. Many people won’t like it, but you seem to be the right type for them.

Yeah, I feel like most of those are arbitrary. Look, the Seahawks run Cover 3 Match Press about 75% of the time (and Cover 1 Hole Press the rest of the time, which is practically the same D), the 49ers even more so. "Sim" doesn't mean "Random," it means "do what NFL teams do."

Shanahan's offense is friggin' ABOUT rolling out of the pocket. The Chiefs run inside zone 25+ times a game sometimes.

Sometime during the late MaddenMania era, "sim" got redefined as "random" and it annoys me to no end. If my Cover 3 is shutting you down, I should not be required to switch to an easier defense for you to beat.

Exploits should be dealt with, of course. But on a principled, case by case basis, not by dictating people's gameplan.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Yeah, I feel like most of those are arbitrary. Look, the Seahawks run Cover 3 Match Press about 75% of the time (and Cover 1 Hole Press the rest of the time, which is practically the same D), the 49ers even more so. "Sim" doesn't mean "Random," it means "do what NFL teams do."

Shanahan's offense is friggin' ABOUT rolling out of the pocket. The Chiefs run inside zone 25+ times a game sometimes.

Sometime during the late MaddenMania era, "sim" got redefined as "random" and it annoys me to no end. If my Cover 3 is shutting you down, I should not be required to switch to an easier defense for you to beat.

Exploits should be dealt with, of course. But on a principled, case by case basis, not by dictating people's gameplan.

Agree with you 100%. Had a thread talking about this very issue around release time. Limiting a play to 3 or 4 times a game is not at all sim.

I get that such rules can weed out the undesirables, and maybe once you have a good group of members you can be lax, but if they seriously would enforce a rule because someone ran inside zone 6 times from a formation that is not a league for me.

Btw, off topic but I saw Daniel Vavra shared your letter. Awesome. f'n. game.

[ForUntoOblivionSoar∞]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Yeah, I feel like most of those are arbitrary. Look, the Seahawks run Cover 3 Match Press about 75% of the time (and Cover 1 Hole Press the rest of the time, which is practically the same D), the 49ers even more so. "Sim" doesn't mean "Random," it means "do what NFL teams do."

Shanahan's offense is friggin' ABOUT rolling out of the pocket. The Chiefs run inside zone 25+ times a game sometimes.

Sometime during the late MaddenMania era, "sim" got redefined as "random" and it annoys me to no end. If my Cover 3 is shutting you down, I should not be required to switch to an easier defense for you to beat.

Exploits should be dealt with, of course. But on a principled, case by case basis, not by dictating people's gameplan.

Some of those rules are to prevent cheese and AI exploitation. For example the position switch limit rules aren’t all about sim. Some of it is cheese prevention.

They have an unrealistic 4th down rule, for example. But the truth is in Madden there are AI flaws that allow money plays, and so the 4th down rule is designed to help limit that.



That league makes their users right fake newspaper articles about their team. They take “NFL Sim” to another level. But they also have many “anti-cheese/anti-AI-exploitation” rules as well.

[Nunyerbiz]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Last time I was in an online league was a number of years ago, probably M11 or 12... when the 49ers still had Alex Smith and a good front 7 on defense. I joined last minute at the request of a co-worker/friend and got stuck with them. I decided I was going to play how the actual 49ers played... grind with Gore, embrace my Captain Checkdown QB with underneath stuff and occasionally try to spring Vernon Davis or Crabtree with a playaction.

Now I was hardly dominant in this league, I think I was 4-5 or maybe 5-5 at the time... but I guess some of my opponents complained about my play style. Turns out they didn't like only having one possesion per half.... As I typically didn't break huddle until 12 seconds on the play clock, ran everything out of one formation and had a 4-to-1 rush to pass ratio. Figured there was no way I stood a chance in a shootout with Smith and those awful wideouts... so did what any NFL coach would do... play to my team's strengths... Turns out that was a no-no. I was 'abusing' and 'cheesing' with my 3.7 ypc Frank Gore (it was not a strong year for rushing in that Madden release). So yea, I didn't rejoin that league. They wanted people who played the same way they did... and if you didn't... well, it was a problem. Cheesing with the Alex Smith led 49ers and my 170 yards worth of offense per game... still makes me chuckle.

[adembroski]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Agree with you 100%. Had a thread talking about this very issue around release time. Limiting a play to 3 or 4 times a game is not at all sim.

I get that such rules can weed out the undesirables, and maybe once you have a good group of members you can be lax, but if they seriously would enforce a rule because someone ran inside zone 6 times from a formation that is not a league for me.

Btw, off topic but I saw Daniel Vavra shared your letter. Awesome. f'n. game.

Thanks, I don't know why I felt strongly enought to write. I guess I see KC as the most "sim" game I know

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[Jr.]

Re: Football coach who is losing his mind

Yeah, I feel like most of those are arbitrary. Look, the Seahawks run Cover 3 Match Press about 75% of the time (and Cover 1 Hole Press the rest of the time, which is practically the same D), the 49ers even more so. "Sim" doesn't mean "Random," it means "do what NFL teams do."

Shanahan's offense is friggin' ABOUT rolling out of the pocket. The Chiefs run inside zone 25+ times a game sometimes.

Sometime during the late MaddenMania era, "sim" got redefined as "random" and it annoys me to no end. If my Cover 3 is shutting you down, I should not be required to switch to an easier defense for you to beat.

Exploits should be dealt with, of course. But on a principled, case by case basis, not by dictating people's gameplan.

Agree with you 100%. Had a thread talking about this very issue around release time. Limiting a play to 3 or 4 times a game is not at all sim.

I get that such rules can weed out the undesirables, and maybe once you have a good group of members you can be lax, but if they seriously would enforce a rule because someone ran inside zone 6 times from a formation that is not a league for me.

Btw, off topic but I saw Daniel Vavra shared your letter. Awesome. f'n. game.

This is the hard part with sim leagues. Yes, it's not realistic to restrict a play to 3-4 times per game, but Madden doesn't easily allow for the defense to make adjustments to stop certain plays/route combos/gameplans. Players in real life adjust on the fly on their own. In Madden, I have to make those adjustments for 7-8 players on a given play.

I can make global adjustments, but if someone keeps running a certain concept that has more complexity, I can't stop it with a simple fix; I have to make 5-6 adjustments with individual players which the opponent can limit if they snap it quickly.

Unfortunately, I've found these types of strict rules are necessary, or people will take advantage of the limited adaptability of the AI, or the tedious nature of the user making adjustments.