LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

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  • SUGATA
    MVP
    • Apr 2016
    • 1375

    #1

    LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

    Do you like EA UFC 3?

    What is wrong with EA UFC 3?
    .... Sway strike spam, Hard combos monotony, forward moving combos spam, Body spam now... what is wrong?


    I am not going to discuss now DETAILS of DISBALANCED things in EA UFC3 and mechanics/input issues. For this many others including me made many threads. Hope some day Devs will hear us.

    But NOW i want to ask you:
    Do you know how to play right EA UFC3 using ALL its mechanics at its fullness?

    I am sure nobody knows.

    From EA UFC 1 to EA UFC 3 its META was growing geometrically.

    To play it right you was needed to know this Meta as much as possible.

    More knowledge of this Meta = more success in fights.

    But the PROBLEM - is that this Meta was HIDDEN.

    All tutorials in EA UFC 1-3 are max 5% of this Meta.

    EA UFC 3 has THE WORST TUTORIAL EVER among ALL fighting games which i was played (tens of fighting games) - the tutorial is 10 2-3'' youtube videos, that is all!

    HOW to gain access to this Meta? - ONLY by surfing OS forum and especially GPD's posts.

    HOW many players are doing this? - maximum some tens.

    HOW many players did it successfully? - very few, may be even no one.

    BUT even then this is NOT ENOUGH... You need to understand, learn and accept and practice all this knowledge.

    HOW to do this? Practice mode was evolved by Recording tool, but at the same time does not have some standard tools like RESET positions/state, accepting concrete needed position for ex, ground positions or near cage to train them.


    MartalMind made a videos where he asking for returning Grappling to UD and asking for more simplicity of the grappling rules.
    I respect him very much. He did amazing job for EA UFC.
    And he is RIGHT - yes, IF we do NOT know how to play, do NOT know Meta, it is better to play arcadish simpler rules game than SIM which we dont know.
    BUT
    I learned and played all Undisputed games, and i am personally do NOT want to come back.
    Why?
    Grappling in UD was SEMI-AUTOMATIC - many features you do not control and they were under the hood.
    Grappling in EA UFC is MANUAL as much as it is possible - and this is AWESOME! you can control nearly ALL aspects of grappling manually = SKILL and KNOWLEDGE decides the winner!

    BUT
    again we do NOT have Knowledge/Meta at its fullness.

    So, what we need to do?

    We have 2 ways:

    1 way - SIMPLICITY - i do not like it personally.

    2 way - INTEGRAL TUTORIAL - this is the what can help the game keep its authentical SIM COMPLEXITY and DEPTH and shine in online matches!
    UD has it! EA UFC has NOT!

    IMPORTANT! NOT COMPLEXITY /DIFFICULTY is the problem of EA UFC. Many games (like Virtua fighter, even Dead or Alive 5) has more Meta than EA UFC. But the lack of Integral tutorial - this it TRUE PROBLEM of the game, which needs to be fixed!
    Integral tutorial will take you step-by-step holding your hand from 0 novice level to top pro level
    __________________________________________________ __

    > HOW TO DO IT:

    INTEGRAL TUTORIAL - is the tutorial which consist from:
    - has logical structure (Standup moving, standup striking, standup grappling, standup defense, standup tactics, standup psychology strategy, etc... Clinch, etc.... Ground etc)
    - tens/hundreds of mini lessons, with follow up practice and then challenge with ranking score for EVERY lesson.
    - describing not only nude mechanics but also tactics , VS tactics, strategy in every situation).
    - must to be interactive as much as possible = more INTERESTING = more easy to remember and learn (self remembering)!

    PRACTICE:

    - it needs Reset button! I know that i am genius =)
    - it needs ability to take immediately EVERY possible position (SUB or DOM) in the game (via Positions menu)
    - it needs Vulnerability gauge
    - it needs Striking advantage gauge (frame advantage)
    - it need as many gauges as possible. Why? b/c gauge is a sophisticated way to self learning the game WITHOUT META.
    - we need SAVE REPLAY function with possibility to turn all gauges later when launch replay video to analyze and learn it.

    And IF you think that i am dreaming now, here are the examples of Integral tutorial from VF4 evolution and DOA5 :

    Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution playlist:



    Dead or Alive 5 Last round playlist:




    RESULTS:

    - do not need to explain on forum for tens players while thousands are missing.
    - honorable equivalent possibilities for ALL players = sportsmanlike cybersport w/o advantage of knowing inside info from GPD's posts on OS forum = truly, this is like CHEATING.
    - more challenging growing community
    - less primitive options like spam and abuse b/c IF the game is balanced every move always has counter move
    - less frustration from the game = more commercial success.


    P.S. I am ending Meta compilation of EA UFC 3 - this is nearly 20.000 (twenty thousands words of pure context information! and all this Meta need to learn w/o interactive tutorial!) words while all text is very laconic and short. When ended i will post it here on OS. May be it will be helpful.
    But i am very hoping to see someday Integral tutorial and Practice fixes from devs!
    Last edited by SUGATA; 05-14-2018, 03:47 PM.
    Full PATCH and Live tuners LIST for EA UFC 5
    EA UFC 3 integral META Guide
    Fighting games PSYCHOLOGY Guide
    All my IDEAS, GUIDES, Reports and Threads on OS ("Find all threads")
  • rabbitfistssaipailo
    MVP
    • Nov 2017
    • 1625

    #2
    Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

    True

    Sent from my Infinix Zero 4 using Operation Sports mobile app

    Comment

    • rabbitfistssaipailo
      MVP
      • Nov 2017
      • 1625

      #3
      Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

      But most would argue ... unfortunately it fortunately , that why learn all this when I can press box and triangle repeatedly and then L1 and box and triangle

      Sent from my Infinix Zero 4 using Operation Sports mobile app

      Comment

      • GameplayDevUFC
        Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
        • Jun 2014
        • 2830

        #4
        Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

        Originally posted by rabbitfistssaipailo
        But most would argue ... unfortunately it fortunately , that why learn all this when I can press box and triangle repeatedly and then L1 and box and triangle

        Sent from my Infinix Zero 4 using Operation Sports mobile app
        People who think that are the people who need the tutorials more than anything because dealing with that is quite easy when you know how.

        Comment

        • rabbitfistssaipailo
          MVP
          • Nov 2017
          • 1625

          #5
          Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

          I agree ...but the thing is everything I've learnt from this game isn't from the in game tutorials .

          As a matter of fact most games don't this . I'm playing horizon zero Dawn and it teaches you how to shoot but not how to really craft .

          Most people don't know about momentum transitions even tho they perform them . But UFC is a niche game ...

          That being said there are a lot of beautiful animations in this game ...but eh

          Sent from my Infinix Zero 4 using Operation Sports mobile app

          Comment

          • Paledude45
            Rookie
            • Feb 2018
            • 247

            #6
            Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

            It's because the game was intended to be played a certain way and online players did the exact opposite by abusing the mechanics. This is why there seems to be a preference for offline play because you see how the game is meant to function.

            Comment

            • Boiler569
              MVP
              • Apr 2016
              • 2006

              #7
              Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

              Maybe EA's strategy is to allow the community to create "How To" videos on Youtube.....

              Two birds w/ one stone, saves them $$$ and gets the community more involved.

              If that is their strategy then they need to put a lot of resources behind promoting these community-generated videos In-Game!

              Instead of the Romero vs. Rockhold tutorial for 2 months straight
              PSN: Boiler569
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              • Nekrotik
                Rookie
                • Nov 2017
                • 288

                #8
                Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                Originally posted by Paledude45
                It's because the game was intended to be played a certain way and online players did the exact opposite by abusing the mechanics. This is why there seems to be a preference for offline play because you see how the game is meant to function.
                Everything you just said is pretty much what's most wrong with the game.
                The game is "meant" to be played a certain way. Words like "meta" are used when describing gameplay.

                MMA is a dynamic sport. The game is anything but.

                Comment

                • SUGATA
                  MVP
                  • Apr 2016
                  • 1375

                  #9
                  Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                  Fighting game "Injustice 2" was released near a YEAR ago and now with Legendary edition was added a NEW advanced Tutorial BY PATCH!


                  How much time gone from EA UFC 3 release date? 3 months.

                  > It is NOT too late to fix the problem and create and add REAL integral tutorial! Devs?
                  If you need some help (make learning structure and order, create challenges, etc) just ask for it...
                  Last edited by SUGATA; 05-14-2018, 07:01 PM.
                  Full PATCH and Live tuners LIST for EA UFC 5
                  EA UFC 3 integral META Guide
                  Fighting games PSYCHOLOGY Guide
                  All my IDEAS, GUIDES, Reports and Threads on OS ("Find all threads")

                  Comment

                  • Blackman316
                    Pro
                    • Jan 2018
                    • 820

                    #10
                    Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                    Would quote for truth, but then again there's the like button.

                    The worst thing is that this information issue was blatantly obvious and well-talked about on the forums and they basically changed nothing apart from some spoken videos talking about some (rather obvious) mechanics. Welcome, but not enough.

                    Knowledge of the meta is needed everywhere and it's quite normal, but the fact that it's practically hidden makes it unfair. Feels almost like a quest to break a speedrun record.

                    I don't have tens of hours to spend on training mode to find out the hidden moves and tricks. Plus the training mode record functionality is still broken after all these months (try countering takedowns and laugh at the ragdollin').

                    I still like this game a lot, but it saddened me that they didn't fully listen to the community.

                    Comment

                    • AeroZeppelin27
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2017
                      • 2287

                      #11
                      Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                      You can't kill the meta!
                      The meta will live on,

                      Punk-Rock tried to kill the meta, But they failed, as they were smite to the ground.

                      New-wave tried to kill the meta, But they failed, as they were striken down to the ground.

                      Grunge tried to kill the meta Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha They failed, as they were thrown to the ground.

                      Comment

                      • ZombieRommel
                        EA Game Changer
                        • Apr 2016
                        • 659

                        #12
                        Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                        Thank you, Sugata. I believe I made a post similar to this on the old EA forums (before they were overrun with trolls).

                        Rewind all the way back to 2003 and Virtua Fighter 4 Evo was a game that gave me severe buyer's remorse for the first few days I had it. I felt completely overwhelmed. I was getting destroyed. I was good at Soul Calibur and had no idea why the normal AI was kicking my @$$ so hard.

                        Enter: Training Mode.

                        I spent a good long weekend in training mode and after all was said and done, I was turned into a HUGE Virtua Fighter fan. The mode where you "virtually" traveled around Japan and fought AI modeled on real players was the icing on the cake. Back before online play was streamlined, VF4 Evo gave players the best possible single player competitive experience and it truly blew my mind.

                        But yeah, after that interactive training mode, all I could think about was VF4 tactics. At high school, I'd eat my lunch and then quickly head over to the library to use their computers and look up strategy and tactics on fighting game websites.

                        To this day I don't think I've experienced such a huge revelation of starting out as a zero in a game and becoming truly good at it.

                        The importance of the training mode in that game truly can't be overstated, and I think a lot of it stems from what you said - not only how thorough it was from a baseline "What can I do in this game?" standpoint, but the training mode went out of its way to explain thought processes of WHY you might do something and how the other player might react in turn. It was incredible.


                        Originally posted by AeroZeppelin27
                        You can't kill the meta!
                        The meta will live on,

                        Punk-Rock tried to kill the meta, But they failed, as they were smite to the ground.

                        New-wave tried to kill the meta, But they failed, as they were striken down to the ground.

                        Grunge tried to kill the meta Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha They failed, as they were thrown to the ground.

                        LMAO, awesome reference.
                        Last edited by ZombieRommel; 05-15-2018, 01:38 AM.
                        ZombieRommel on YouTube - UFC3 coverage has begun!

                        Comment

                        • Counter Punch
                          Pro
                          • Apr 2018
                          • 949

                          #13
                          Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                          Example:

                          “Side Vulnerability” 🤣
                          ...precision beats power and timing beats speed... and realism beats meta.

                          Comment

                          • MeowingForVengeance
                            Pro
                            • May 2016
                            • 576

                            #14
                            Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                            Only defense for such thin in-game instruction, I guess, is that if they'd made more extensive tutorials for the game at the start...how much of it would still be relevant now that the game has changed so much?

                            But then I think of the game Paragon, a MOBA I tried on PS4. I couldn't figure out how the **** to play it, so I asked the devs, 'Hey, how come there's no real tutorial in this game?'

                            And they said because the game was still in beta, they wanted to wait until it was finished before they taught people how to play it. Six months later the game shut down due to lack of player retention.

                            Comment

                            • SUGATA
                              MVP
                              • Apr 2016
                              • 1375

                              #15
                              Re: LACK of TRUE TUTORIAL and HIDDEN Meta is the MAIN problem of EA UFC 3

                              Originally posted by ZombieRommel
                              Thank you, Sugata. I believe I made a post similar to this on the old EA forums (before they were overrun with trolls).

                              Rewind all the way back to 2003 and Virtua Fighter 4 Evo was a game that gave me severe buyer's remorse for the first few days I had it. I felt completely overwhelmed. I was getting destroyed. I was good at Soul Calibur and had no idea why the normal AI was kicking my @$$ so hard.

                              Enter: Training Mode.

                              I spent a good long weekend in training mode and after all was said and done, I was turned into a HUGE Virtua Fighter fan. The mode where you "virtually" traveled around Japan and fought AI modeled on real players was the icing on the cake. Back before online play was streamlined, VF4 Evo gave players the best possible single player competitive experience and it truly blew my mind.

                              But yeah, after that interactive training mode, all I could think about was VF4 tactics. At high school, I'd eat my lunch and then quickly head over to the library to use their computers and look up strategy and tactics on fighting game websites.

                              To this day I don't think I've experienced such a huge revelation of starting out as a zero in a game and becoming truly good at it.

                              The importance of the training mode in that game truly can't be overstated, and I think a lot of it stems from what you said - not only how thorough it was from a baseline "What can I do in this game?" standpoint, but the training mode went out of its way to explain thought processes of WHY you might do something and how the other player might react in turn. It was incredible.





                              LMAO, awesome reference.
                              MM made a video about his Training mode wishes too. Unfortunately we have not received it =(

                              Glad to hear that.

                              Virtua Fighter:
                              - is the most realistic/authentic fighting game among ARCADE fighting games (means based on pure frame data).

                              - is still counting as the MOST DIFFICULT most technical fighting game ever

                              - it has Meta much larger than EA UFC

                              AND all this NEVER WAS a problem! Because it has one of the BEST Integral TUTORIALS ever - this is the best example about how to made Tutorials for Difficult games with large meta.

                              Deep interactive interesting tutorial - is the KEY which is opening the world of this game.

                              Without like this Tutorial even the ingenious game will NOT be understood/learned, will NOT be popular and will ROLL DOWN to primitive spam tactics b/c players will not know how to counter this sh**t and how to play smart and beautiful!

                              W/o REAL Tutorial EA UFC will remain as a hidden gem forever... until its end.


                              P.S. Even more - Virtua Fighter is the ONLY ONE fighting game which involved an revolutionary "AI MODE"!
                              And it is still the only one fighting which has this feature:
                              http://www.neoseeker.com/vf4/faqs/53...-training.html
                              You create a fighter, beat him and fight w him... but he is learning yr patterns over time , and then begin to evolve them by himself on his own.
                              Then u can fight him, fight others w him, ... a learn from him to EVOLVE yr own fight style.
                              This was a revolutionary awesome deep feature ever.
                              I wrote about this idea to Skynet in PM but it sadly w/o response...
                              IF thing like that will be implemented in future EA UFC (like Trainer mode or GM) it would be awesome and very helpful!
                              Last edited by SUGATA; 05-15-2018, 12:03 PM.
                              Full PATCH and Live tuners LIST for EA UFC 5
                              EA UFC 3 integral META Guide
                              Fighting games PSYCHOLOGY Guide
                              All my IDEAS, GUIDES, Reports and Threads on OS ("Find all threads")

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