Reasonable crucifix fix

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  • OPSPunk
    Banned
    • Apr 2018
    • 575

    #1

    Reasonable crucifix fix

    I love the ground and even I think the crucifix is OP. It’s OP because side control is relatively easy to achieve and crucifix is only one position away. Crucifix should be damn near a death sentence, just harder to obtain. To me the solution is an easy and realistic one.

    No crucifix from side control. Only from side saddle. It gives the defender another position buffer before the death sentence

    Another interesting option would be to use the submission system to achieve that spot
  • xtremeba1000
    Pro
    • Aug 2017
    • 772

    #2
    Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

    Originally posted by OPSPunk
    I love the ground and even I think the crucifix is OP. It’s OP because side control is relatively easy to achieve and crucifix is only one position away. Crucifix should be damn near a death sentence, just harder to obtain. To me the solution is an easy and realistic one.

    No crucifix from side control. Only from side saddle. It gives the defender another position buffer before the death sentence

    Another interesting option would be to use the submission system to achieve that spot
    YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, I fight alot of guys who just go for high takedowns to side control and try for crucifix over and over again. if they are good you are probably gonna lose if they get the position even once.

    Comment

    • FriendlyJudoka
      Rookie
      • Mar 2018
      • 68

      #3
      Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

      This sounds like a definite improvement to me.

      Comment

      • xtremeba1000
        Pro
        • Aug 2017
        • 772

        #4
        Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

        Kind of stupid how you have to go to side saddle to get out but you can go straight to crucifix skipping past side saddle. In real life you have to go to side saddle first to trap the arm with your legs.

        Comment

        • Solid_Altair
          EA Game Changer
          • Apr 2016
          • 2043

          #5
          Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

          It would also mean you'd be able to get to crucifix again, because the escapes from it go to SS. I think this could make it even more powerful than now.

          Comment

          • OPSPunk
            Banned
            • Apr 2018
            • 575

            #6
            Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

            Originally posted by Solid_Altair
            It would also mean you'd be able to get to crucifix again, because the escapes from it go to SS. I think this could make it even more powerful than now.
            That’s fine. Irl crucifix is the worst position. Worse than mount. If you get in it should be tough to get out. It should really mean your a$$. I don’t want them limiting the dmg or increasing the ability to escape. It just needs to be harder to get there.

            The only problem is that you need another position to transfer to from side saddle. Not sure there is a good one. Maybe back side control, mount. Maybe make the submissions from there more deadly

            Comment

            • Ksearyback
              Pro
              • Jun 2016
              • 639

              #7
              Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

              Originally posted by OPSPunk
              That’s fine. Irl crucifix is the worst position. Worse than mount. If you get in it should be tough to get out. It should really mean your a$$. I don’t want them limiting the dmg or increasing the ability to escape. It just needs to be harder to get there.

              The only problem is that you need another position to transfer to from side saddle. Not sure there is a good one. Maybe back side control, mount. Maybe make the submissions from there more deadly
              The linear nature of grappling in this game has screwed up people's perception of "in real life" arguments.

              The first point is interesting, and probably a good idea for the game. That being, make it more difficult to obtain the crucifix position in the first place.

              In reality, getting there isn't really a case simply going through positions until reaching side saddle. The side saddle allows for more control, but limits options for the top player. I'd also argue side control is better for getting to crucifix, but not the point of this discussion. More important to this point of making it a more difficult position to attain, there could also be an element of needing help from the bottom fighter in order to get there with more ease (a bad escape attempt, or if there were more options for defense from the bottom it would offer more options).

              In the meantime, I think it would make sense to have wider variance in how statistics like ratings, jiu-jitsu and/or wrestling level play into this. A good grappler is unlikely to give up that arm (and they sure as hell know from side saddle). On the flip side, there should be wider dispersion between fighters skills that determine the ease of getting the position - and, again, a wider gap in ability to hold the position.

              All that aside...
              I think Solid nailed it, as far as the reason for the current mechanics. Makes sense that the developers simply had to find ways to create artificial barriers created by the linear grappling engine. I assume that, because crucifix is so strong in this game (and so damn easy to attain), they forced the circuit of: Side Control -> Crucifix -> Side Saddle... to allow more opportunities to block being put back in the position after an escape.
              Last edited by Ksearyback; 06-14-2018, 08:16 PM. Reason: Wrote same thing twice

              Comment

              • FriendlyJudoka
                Rookie
                • Mar 2018
                • 68

                #8
                Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                Originally posted by Solid_Altair
                It would also mean you'd be able to get to crucifix again, because the escapes from it go to SS. I think this could make it even more powerful than now.
                Well then they could also change the escape from crucifix so that it goes back to side control. BAM problem solved.

                Comment

                • FCB x Finlay
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2017
                  • 1293

                  #9
                  Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                  Originally posted by OPSPunk
                  That’s fine. Irl crucifix is the worst position. Worse than mount. If you get in it should be tough to get out. It should really mean your a$$. I don’t want them limiting the dmg or increasing the ability to escape. It just needs to be harder to get there.

                  The only problem is that you need another position to transfer to from side saddle. Not sure there is a good one. Maybe back side control, mount. Maybe make the submissions from there more deadly
                  Bit of an exaggeration mount and back mount are worse in terms of subs and landing power shots. Really like adding side saddle as a transition first as it requires you to trap the leg.

                  Comment

                  • ZHunter1990
                    EA Game Changer
                    • Jan 2016
                    • 572

                    #10
                    Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                    Maybe add a muscle modifier option for both escapes? So it might be difficult to hold someone there while they are fresh, but it gets easier as the fight goes on and they get fatigued, because the muscle modifier loses its speed/effectiveness as stamina gets lower.
                    Half of this game is 90% mental - Tim Sylvia
                    Xbox GT: ZHunter90/ZackJitsu

                    Comment

                    • SpartanZombieXD
                      Rookie
                      • Apr 2016
                      • 228

                      #11
                      Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                      Its impossible to finish in Side Control against competent players who know how to squirm. Crucifix is very easily blockable if the person on top doesn't time it, and it can be reversed.

                      Side saddle is a JJ transition, crucifix is a wrestling one

                      If they do anything to crucifix without making side control more threatening or takedowns easier to obtain its a massive step backwards in my opinion. Just call this a kickboxing game and have done with it. As it stands, if a miracle happens and you get taken down, let them have side control and just none stop fake to sprawl, no strikes can be landed, costs you no stamina, no reason to not do it. crucifix is the only punishment for it and good players can get out of it easy enough. Many people escape

                      Comment

                      • Supreme_Bananas
                        Pro
                        • Apr 2016
                        • 944

                        #12
                        Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                        Shouldn't it be "Reasonable cruci-fix"?































                        I'll show myself out

                        Comment

                        • Phillyboi207
                          Banned
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 3159

                          #13
                          Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                          Originally posted by ZHunter1990
                          Maybe add a muscle modifier option for both escapes? So it might be difficult to hold someone there while they are fresh, but it gets easier as the fight goes on and they get fatigued, because the muscle modifier loses its speed/effectiveness as stamina gets lower.
                          Can you pretty please get the muscle modifier added for takedowns, going to backside from top sprawl, and all clinch transitions. Pummeling and takedowns from the clinch can be done using more muscle at the cost of stamina.

                          Comment

                          • RetractedMonkey
                            MVP
                            • Dec 2017
                            • 1624

                            #14
                            Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                            Earlier on in the game cycle, I thought crucifix was OP, but they seem to have increased the time it takes to get the transition. Add the fact that you can rock the boat, crucifix isn’t all that bad. You’re only screwed if you have no stamina.

                            The issue is more of a statistics thing. Simply having DC can make crucifix a death sentence with full stamina. I also think it should take longer to get TKOed from crucifix. You cannot generate enough force to KO someone from crucifix without giving up some stability. Crucifix is somewhat of a cheat code for real life MMA. No damage is really being done, but you technically aren’t “intelligently” defending yourself. The game needs to reflect this. The power of shots on the ground is all messed up.

                            Mount shots should have a power modifier to make them harder but easier to off balance you.

                            Crucifix shots should be less powerful, but allow you more stability from the position.

                            Side control strikes should have almost no power. They should be more varied (elbows to the thigh, punches to the gut), but allow for more control.

                            Half guard should have the same variety of unpostured strikes. Unpostured strikes as a whole are a joke. The majority of GNP is done with unpostured strikes. Half guard postured should have half the damage it has now, but more stability. Half guard should be a half way position to do good damage with good balance as opposed to mount being big damage with low stability. That’s why people use half guard as a GNP position in the first place in real life.

                            Guard should be THE place for GNP. Posturing up should be the same as it is now but with more damage. But, unpostured guard should have elbows, hooks, hammerfists, etc. and they should do more damage than the shots do now. Why this position is useless for the top guy is insane. This is where the vast majority of GNP gets done.

                            Stacked guard can keep everything it has going on now. Pretty good representation considering it’s rarely used. Maybe more sweeps and passes from the position.

                            Everyone already knows the back positions are terrible.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

                            Comment

                            • OPSPunk
                              Banned
                              • Apr 2018
                              • 575

                              #15
                              Re: Reasonable crucifix fix

                              Originally posted by FCB x Finlay
                              Bit of an exaggeration mount and back mount are worse in terms of subs and landing power shots. Really like adding side saddle as a transition first as it requires you to trap the leg.
                              I disagree and so does Ben Askren


                              Khabib also disagrees


                              BJJ is sort of an old school thing. A top BJJ guy better have really good striking to make it in the UFC. On the other hand there are guys who have very basic striking but can wrestle and can become top level guys (Blaydes, Covington, Usman, early Woodley, Cejudo, etc)
                              Last edited by OPSPunk; 06-17-2018, 04:52 PM.

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