Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

[Phillyboi207]

Shout out to the Devs for getting the game to where it is now. I know we have limited patches left so there's a couple of things I'd love to see added before we're all done. WARNING:This is a LONG read and will contain a few posts. There will be bolded TL;DR at the bottom of each post. Each idea will have it's own post. I don't realistically expect all (if any) of it to be considered for UFC 3 but wanted to get some feedback from the community.

Idea 1: Proper range management

Ranges and distances

I think a big reason the magnetic striking is an issue is because ranges arent very accurate when it comes to a lot of strikes. The game will say a forward moving uppercut should be in kick range and the result will look wonky because they have to slide to make up for the lack of range on the striking animation.

Per GPD from the deep dive article:
“There are five ranges to be aware of in the game:

Elbow Range
Punch Range
Kicking Range
Step Kicking Range
Out of Range”

What I’m proposing is extending upon this and adding more ranges. Including the optimal ranges for grappling.

Elbow range -> Stationary elbows/knees/uppercuts, very fast over/under clinch attempt, can also interrupt strikes going for over under

Hook range -> Forward moving elbows/uppercuts/knees, stationary hooks, very fast single collar clinch attempt


Straight punch range -> Stationary jabs/straights/overhands, forward moving hooks, oblique kick, optimal double leg/ single range



Round kick range -> stationary Leg kicks/roundhouses, forward moving straights /overhands, spinning kicks, stationary side kicks(to the leg), forward moving oblique, decent double leg range



Straight kick range -> Side kicks, push kicks, forward moving leg kicks/ roundhouses, forward moving side kicks to the leg, ankle pick range, desperation double leg range



Stepping straight kick -> forward moving side kicks/push kicks, desperation ankle pick range, maximum imanari roll range


Out of range

Why is this important? Proper range management is arguably the most important skill in combat fighting. This way a forward moving uppercut doesnt involve the fighter sliding forward to land from kick range. This is also fixes the issue of everyone throwing the same combo. It places more thought on each strike.

In addition minor lunge would hop you between the smaller ranges, push would knock you back one range,stationary back sway takes you back one range,retreating back sway takes you back two ranges, Major lunges would take you back two ranges.

Im hoping this is something both the competitive and the sim crowd want. In traditional fighting games range mastery is vital.

TLDR; Add more ranges to help give strikes their purpose and allow more moves to shine.

If i’m incorrect on any ranges please offer feedback. I have a boxing background and I’m more than willing to learn.

[chia]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

I really the title and then I was so overcome by laughing that tears got into my eyes and I couldn't read the post.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

MartialMind and I talked about adding ranges, too.

I don't think it would solve as much as it seems, though. I definitely think the built-in steps on hooks and uppers should remain. And I kinda wish for a new range for the foward tornado kick, even though that's not much of a biggy.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Idea 2:

Power modifier change /combo speed change.

This has been spoken about before but I wanna make sure we all still want it. Having R1 be the power modifier for all strikes is the way to go imo. It doesnt complicate the current control scheme adds another layer of complexity to striking.

A lot of games follow the basic principles of heavy strike>guard>light strike>Dodge>heavy strike>

This could be applied to MMA as well

Adding a power modifier would give us the ability to do more single strike damage, and an even easier way to break the block, also provide more bleed through. The risk being added vulnerability and stamina cost. Another big risk would be recovery frames on whiffed/evaded strikes. When you whiff a heavy strike your balance is compromised.

This also elevates fighter individuality for offline guys. Conor/ Anthony Johnson come out looking to put you to sleep from the gate. Diaz bros rely on light strikes to overwhelm you before digging into your body with power hooks. Yoel/Woodley are patient but put everything into one fight ending strike.



The change to combo speed would nerf the speed boost given by default. Make the strikes flow with no added acceleration unless you use the power modifier. You’d have the option of flowing combos like Diaz bros, or coming for the kill like Cody Garbrandt at the risk of vulnerability and stamina.

TL;DR: Add power modifier to R1. Provides more balance to striking. Nerf combo speed unless using power modifier. Allows combos to flow at regulad speed or get added acceleration/power at the risk of stamina and vulnerability

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Sorry I posted between your big idea posts.

I can try to delete the post in between (and re-post it below), if you wish.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Last post is 100% from Martial Mind. I will just be adding something to help balancd things between the pressure fighting crowd and team movement

I've been thinking about this more and the truth is, there are a lot of tools in the game right now for dealing with pressure AND also circling out.

It doesn't mean these tools are as easy to use as they should be but they are there and i think there's one more thing that could be done to indirectly buff these tools in a realistic way without nerfing INTELLIGENT pressure fighting.

Lets get one thing clear first. Memorizing and queuing up 4 hit combos repeatedly is NOT intelligent pressure fighting. The more you string combinations together, especially in a chasing manner, the HARDER it is actually trap opponents and there's a reason for that.

PHYSICS:

Now I don't know how to explain this with Physics terms (Maybe someone could help) but....
If you run forward in a straight line and stop abruptly, you don't come to a complete halt, rather you tend to take a few extra steps (Maybe less) before coming to a full stop. The same is true when you attempt to change directions quickly.

This also happens while striking, especially when you're feet isn't planted.

If a throws a forward moving lunging strike and my opponent lunges out of the way, the fighter is almost always forced to take a few extra steps before being able to change directions again. It's not instant.

Example:



Notice how Robert almost fell into the cage while trying to halt after he missed that straight. He couldn't help it. While his body was doing that, Stephen was able to circle back out to the center.

Another example:



The distance Stephen created against Patrick there wouldn't be possible without that additional step Patrick had to take after he whiffed. The whiff plus the extra step, plus the time it took him to turn back around and face Thompson again is what makes the lunge effective.

How does this work in the game though?

Well it doesn't exist in the game. And that's what makes using the lunge so difficult, because even when you use it successfully to evade a strike, the fighter that missed IMMEDIATELY ends up directly in front of you.

I'll demonstrate this point by using the most exaggerated one I know... The spinning heel kick.



Notice the extra steps after the kick is thrown? That's realistic. But what happens when you duck the kick and lunge to the side?



The fighter turns with you as he recovers from the whiff basically making the side lunge useless in that scenario. This is not realistic. You don't get to chose what direction you recover in... You recover in thesame direction you were heading. He should keep recovering in the original direction of the kick and ONLY turn back to face you when he is done with his recovery.

If this worked properly, the side lunge would be an effective tool to actually create space without ANY direct buffs to it at all.

My suggestion is this.

Any strike that realistically forces an extra step or few extra steps after it's missed should KEEP going in thesame direction until recovery is complete and only after completion should the fighter turn and face the opponent.

BTW, this includes combos. If i queue up a forward moving 1-2-3 combo, i'm committing fully to it in a forward direction. EVEN if the opponent lunged to the side making the Jab miss, DON'T REDIRECT THE STRAIGHT TO FOLLOW THE OPPONENT!!! Keep the combo forward in it's original direction until it's complete.

It should be up to the player to notice that his opponent has lunged and then STOP the rest of the combo (Which you can do) and after he stops, he can then face the opponent again and try again.

This is the outside fighting buff that is needed.

Thoughts?

My only addition to balance this is to nerf lateral moving strikes and buff forward moving strikes

Keep vulnerability as is for both. Allow pressure fighters to throw strikes moving forward without such a huge delay. Make it so lateral moving strike speed/power is based on footwork rating. Everyone in MMA can strike moving forward but very few can move laterally and throw complete combos. High footwork guys should be able to pull this off consistently against someone coming straight forward.





Last couple of things I’d like add is blocking to return to lunges(if you commit to block you cant counter strike from a succesful lunge). But to counter this buff offer a stumble animation if someone does the retreat or a back sway/lunge while their back is against the cage. During the stumble you can only block.

https://1prso3391sqpaf1e11k5i8s1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/UFC_205_Free_Fight_Eddie_Alvarez_vs_Rafael_Dos_Anjos-1.gif

(Stumble example. Cant get it to show for some reason)

Punishes players for poor cage control. With all of the above I think the game would reward intelligent aggression versus non stop combos. You could also use movement intelligently if you have a high footwork guy.

Tl;DR: Make forward combos faster, lateral ones slower/weaker. Allow circling to center against forward combo(Credit to Martial Mind). Bring back blocking on lunges, add a stumble animation for evasive maneuvers done against the fence

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Sorry I posted between your big idea posts.

I can try to delete the post in between (and re-post it below), if you wish.

You’re good

Im glad it’s already being discussed.

Any thoughts on the other posts?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Last attempt at trying to get some sort of discussion about this.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Last attempt at trying to get some sort of discussion about this.

What's the idea behind making forward combos faster?

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

What's the idea behind making forward combos faster?

As it is curently stationary combos come out faster so you’re rewarded for constantly moving back and then standing still to strike.

Ths would make it possible to fight moving forward a lot easier

But the defender would be given the ability to lunge out of the way against an overly aggressive opponent.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

As it is curently stationary combos come out faster so you’re rewarded for constantly moving back and then standing still to strike.

Ths would make it possible to fight moving forward a lot easier

But the defender would be given the ability to lunge out of the way against an overly aggressive opponent.

Well how many fighters have good enough footwork in terms of stats to pull this version of circling out off? Unless you're suggesting not that high of a rating should be needed to do it. Because if you're thinking Thompson levels of good, not many can live up to it.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Well how many fighters have good enough footwork in terms of stats to pull this version of circling out off? Unless you're suggesting not that high of a rating should be needed to do it. Because if you're thinking Thompson levels of good, not many can live up to it.

I posted JDS doing it as well

Im thinkin around 92-93ish

I just wouldnt want to be able to do it with someone like black beast

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

I posted JDS doing it as well

Im thinkin around 92-93ish

I just wouldnt want to be able to do it with someone like black beast

Yeah, I just wonder how that sped up forward combo thing would work, isn't Lewis (your example) going to be flattened when facing it? Or am I missing something? On a side note, I thought of that Woodley charge/flurry, I thought it would be in the game before it released .

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Striking is in a good place but a few ideas that I think would perfect it.

Yeah, I just wonder how that sped up forward combo thing would work, isn't Lewis (your example) going to be flattened when facing it? Or am I missing something? On a side note, I thought of that Woodley charge/flurry, I thought it would be in the game before it released .

Well if you charged Lewis you would be at risk for being flatlined lol especially if power modifier was added.

So there’s be proper risk/reward