[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by KidsAreAsleep

I agree that sample size is very important. I wish I had more time to play more games. I really thought version 5 played great in my one game. The warping was the only new thing I noticed. I agree, the RB directness could also be a little better, but I noticed a big difference. Interestingly, I saw a lot of extraneous juking and spinning in the first and part of the second quarter, but then much more direct running for the rest of the game. Maybe this has something to do with fatigue? Thank you very much for all your time and hard work. I appreciate what you do. I feel like we are very close with these sliders. I am seriously thinking about turning off auto update for my PS4 when the sliders are finalized. Oh, and I might just follow you over to FIFA. I got FIFA 18 about a month or two ago and really enjoy that game as well. Although, I am still learning the intricacies of that game, and enjoying every minute. Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

That's an interesting observation. In most cases, if the player has used a lot of jukes/spins, they can get used up essentially. Something discovered in NCAA is with the RB ABility slider the lower the value was, the more direct the runner was. In Madden, the absence of a RB Ability slider is a bit more difficult to determine what slider causes the behavior. Most of the time it is a combo between Run Block + Fumbles value. I believe it goes deeper than that as the game is very much read-n-react animations, basically this animation triggers the other, and so forth. This is why to me it is so important to isolate the animations further by using the 0 threshold. From here, it's just a matter of syncing things back up.

Quote: Originally Posted by itbeme23

Hey Matt. Long time user of your FIFA sliders (when I'm not playing PES. ), and no stranger to posting sliders on these forums, particularly with The Show and Madden. I had already been a few games deep into testing for my own set, when I read through your OP and found that a lot of our focuses were similar, although with very different approaches. I decided to load your sliders, with my own adjustments for quarter length, fatigue, and auto-subs, but I used your gameplay sliders exactly as you had them posted. There were a lot of things I was impressed with: 1. First and foremost, the CPU run game was fantastic. In my games testing my own set, I was having a hell of a time getting the CPU to consistently run the ball, and I had the CPU Run Blocking slider up over 80. 2. Tackling. I was already heading in the same direction as you. I think my last test game was at 35, and I see your Version 5 set has tackling at 32. That's probably where I would've ended up anyway. Here, you don't see as many hit-stick type tackles, and much more wrap tackles, as it should be. Great job. 3. Interceptions. Same as above. I was already at 40, and I knew it was going to need to be lowered to combat the superman-like INTs by DBs. In my first test game with your set, there were a couple of picks on each side, but none of them seemed unrealistic, which was a good thing. 4. CPU QB Accuracy. This has been the slider I've been most surprised (read: "confused") by. I can't remember the last time in any iteration of Madden where I've ever seen a QBA slider with a value this high (or even at default for that matter) with any realistic results. I don't know what EA did here, but it's been a pleasant surprise. I was a little weary of having it set higher than default, but in my test game against the Texans, DeShaun Watson looked and played the way I would expect to. He had a ~60% completion rate, with a TD and a couple of INTs. Nice variety of short, medium, and long throws, including a beauty to DeAndre Hopkins on a go-route, which ended up being the game winner. Now, where we are different in our approaches is penalty settings. I understand your logic completely, trust me. I think there has been a feeling the penalty sliders affect gameplay for a long time on these forums. I also know a lot of people build their slider sets based on this premise. I just don't happen to be one of them. I don't doubt the penalty sliders affect gameplay to a certain degree. That's evidenced by your CPU Run Blocking slider being set lower than my test set (mine was +80, I think), and achieving better results. I have no doubt that your Holding and Offside sliders being set at 20 has something to do with those results. Similarly, your lower value for the Facemask slider may result in more sure tackling. Here's my point: In theory, the penalty sliders are there to influence how much the referees "care" (as you put it) about a certain penalty, thus affecting the frequency at which said penalty is called, right? So, with lower settings, such as 20 for Holding and False Start, the likelihood of those penalties being called at a realistic clip is greatly diminished. I'm sure you remember just as much as I do the days where the penalty sliders didn't mean JACK, regardless of the value at which they were set. My fear is substantially lowering the values would make the penalty sliders irrelevant once again. In my test game with your sliders, there was only a total of 3 penalties between the two teams (all false starts), and I'm playing with 13 minute quarters. My questions: 1. Based on what I have gathered, your reasoning for setting the Holding and False Start sliders at 20 is to produce more realistic OL/DL interaction, which seems to have a positive effect on CPU run game. Is that correct? If so, do you believe (at this stage of testing) achieving a better result by ONLY adjusting the Tackling/Run Blocking gameplay sliders is not possible? 2. Do you think your set will sacrifice realistic penalty calls for the sake of balanced gameplay? Like I said, the game PLAYED great in the test game I ran. Really had a good feel, particularly with the Parity Scale set a 0, which is something I had never tried before. I'm just trying to pick your brain about how your approach is going to be moving forward with penalties. Great set as always, man!!! Looking forward to your reply.

Hey, man. Great post, one of the best. Appreciate your insight and questions.

1. Yes, the OL/DL interaction is one this year in which that by default it is exactly where I wanted it. Oh, how we've dreamed of less suction blocking, right? Well we got it, and you know what they say about getting what we wished for - well at least what I wished for. A more organic OL/DL is all I've ever wanted; problem is EA have done that but isolated it on its own versus considering the harmony between OL/DL and the Running back's behavior. Go figure.

So the lowering of those two values are the same two values that when raised up (see my Madden 18 thread) to create some form of OL/DL interaction. This year, I wanted to reduce that instant shedding, something that was badly needed in 18, and a combo of multiple values could achieve that, which were 1) Threshold, 2) RBL, 3) TAK, 4) Offsides & 5) False Start; maybe Facemask too but that is merely interaction with the ball carrier.

Deconstructing the cause and effect here has been ideal now that I know what triggers what, so my hope is I can slowly reintroduce those values again. I believe in the law of extremes in sliders because I want to see immediate impact of the values being changed. This is why I have many "versions" posted but technically they are just one big version, I just happen to stop at a certain point that I need more eyes on because while I get my sample size in, it's better to get others experience as well.

In a perfect world, I would like the TAK and RBL value to be the only ones affected to help the CPU run game. The problem is the OL/DL interaction is so in favor of the DL that it took all parts of the combo I provided above.

2. Penalties are part of the game, I need them. When drives stall out currently, but there is not enough of that human error, which would be validated if there were more penalties called. If I were to pick the ones that stand out the most right now are offensive holding (still see it on average 2-3x a game)...and that's about it...with the occasional DPI that has nothing to do with the animation triggered, rather a collision being detected by the game's referee. I know anytime to you play an EA Sports title there are going to be sacrifices to be made, but it's never stopped me (and I'm sure plenty of others) from having our cake and eating it too. This is kind of the beginning stages of slideritis if you aren't too careful . I'd love logical gameplay to remain, but have those moments in which the referees play their role. I will definitely be looking into each value and prioritize them based on the gameplay and how often they will occur in games. I personally believe there is a lot more to dive into with the penalties, relevant to this set, that I have not done yet.