SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

[mpd3892]

I’d like to put something out and maybe get a few more eyes involved to see if there is something there.

Last year I put out a thread “ZERO Slider Adjustments & HIGH MOTOR”. There was a great discussion and some excellent discoveries, especially from iMac2307. This year iMac2307’s got the discussion going with M19 and provided excellent info and, like last year, a roster for all to use. Because of his, and the efforts of others, there is a strong consensus among many here that traits do have a profound impact on gameplay. Others have made key contributions as well. Essentially, Madden really comes alive when traits are properly utilized.

An area that I have been looking at improving is when the CPU QB decides to throw the ball. I was seeing highly rated QBs, as well as lower rated ones, getting the ball out too quickly, even when there was no real pressure. This got me to thinking and wondering if the solution couldn’t be found in traits as it was with HIGH MOTOR and other traits.

For obvious reasons, I focused on the SENSE PRESSURE trait. Last year JoshC came up with a chart to determine which level of SENSE PRESSURE a QB might have based on AWR.

Over the course of numerous games (10+ with and against various teams) I noticed that decision making, particularly as it pertains to when to throw the ball, seemed to be influenced by this trait more so than AWR or any other player quality.

What I believe to be happening is that when this is set to IDEAL, QBs become psychic. They get rid of the ball at the slightest hint of pressure, even if an attacker is well blocked. On the lowest settings QBs will ignore pressure to the degree of the setting. This got me to thinking that this trait acted like a bubble around the QB. The better the setting the smaller the bubble, but once an attacker got into the bubble the quicker the QB acted. At IDEAL top QBs were still rushing to get the throw out or even trying to move out of the pocket, even when there was no real pressure. When set to AVERAGE they appear to make better decisions and show more patience in the pocket. On OBLIVIOUS perhaps the trait is turned off.

It is here that I am hoping others will provide more observations. When you play take note of the QB’s SENSE PRESSURE trait. If set to IDEAL is he getting the ball out too quickly or trying to get out of the pocket, even when there is no real pressure? If set to AVERAGE, does the QB play smarter, showing more patience? I’m not concerned with the other settings at this time, if we get the above two figured out, the others should be obvious as to how they play.

I know folks like to see video evidence when a new idea is floated, but to be honest I’m simply not interested in doing that. I rarely have time to play as it is. If you are interested in this great, I really hope you share your observations. If you need video evidence, perhaps someone will accommodate.

I’ve been looking into this on default AP or using JoshC’s setup on occasion when I’m not looking to help him out with his thread. I’ve also looked at this with the default roster and with a variation of iMac2307’s recommended trait edits, namely turning off HIGH MOTOR.

Additionally, I’ve been looking into how the SENSE PRESSURE trait might affect other positions, namely blockers (HB, FB, TE & OL). There may very well be something there as well. When set to IDEAL, blockers seem psychic in that they anticipate attackers coming free or even are able to “know” an attacker is coming from a backside angle when they can’t possibly see them. Set to AVERAGE they make better decisions and hold there area better, unless they see an unblocked attacker. It is vital that HIGH MOTOR is turned off as it overrides everything else.

With HIGH MOTOR off and SENSE PRESSURE set to AVERAGE for blockers, I’m seeing far better blocking and the CPU actually has a run game. It is entirely possible that SENSE PRESSURE even has a positive affect on runners in how they attack running lanes and utilize blockers.

Think of SENSE PRESSURE as a bubble. The higher the setting (IDEAL being the highest), the smaller the bubble and the less likely a player is to react without a need.

Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from folks.

[tommycoa]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

I’d like to put something out and maybe get a few more eyes involved to see if there is something there.

Last year I put out a thread “ZERO Slider Adjustments & HIGH MOTOR”. There was a great discussion and some excellent discoveries, especially from iMac2307. This year iMac2307’s got the discussion going with M19 and provided excellent info and, like last year, a roster for all to use. Because of his, and the efforts of others, there is a strong consensus among many here that traits do have a profound impact on gameplay. Others have made key contributions as well. Essentially, Madden really comes alive when traits are properly utilized.

An area that I have been looking at improving is when the CPU QB decides to throw the ball. I was seeing highly rated QBs, as well as lower rated ones, getting the ball out too quickly, even when there was no real pressure. This got me to thinking and wondering if the solution couldn’t be found in traits as it was with HIGH MOTOR and other traits.

For obvious reasons, I focused on the SENSE PRESSURE trait. Last year JoshC came up with a chart to determine which level of SENSE PRESSURE a QB might have based on AWR.

Over the course of numerous games (10+ with and against various teams) I noticed that decision making, particularly as it pertains to when to throw the ball, seemed to be influenced by this trait more so than AWR or any other player quality.

What I believe to be happening is that when this is set to IDEAL, QBs become psychic. They get rid of the ball at the slightest hint of pressure, even if an attacker is well blocked. On the lowest settings QBs will ignore pressure to the degree of the setting. This got me to thinking that this trait acted like a bubble around the QB. The better the setting the smaller the bubble, but once an attacker got into the bubble the quicker the QB acted. At IDEAL top QBs were still rushing to get the throw out or even trying to move out of the pocket, even when there was no real pressure. When set to AVERAGE they appear to make better decisions and show more patience in the pocket. On OBLIVIOUS perhaps the trait is turned off.

It is here that I am hoping others will provide more observations. When you play take note of the QB’s SENSE PRESSURE trait. If set to IDEAL is he getting the ball out too quickly or trying to get out of the pocket, even when there is no real pressure? If set to AVERAGE, does the QB play smarter, showing more patience? I’m not concerned with the other settings at this time, if we get the above two figured out, the others should be obvious as to how they play.

I know folks like to see video evidence when a new idea is floated, but to be honest I’m simply not interested in doing that. I rarely have time to play as it is. If you are interested in this great, I really hope you share your observations. If you need video evidence, perhaps someone will accommodate.

I’ve been looking into this on default AP or using JoshC’s setup on occasion when I’m not looking to help him out with his thread. I’ve also looked at this with the default roster and with a variation of iMac2307’s recommended trait edits, namely turning off HIGH MOTOR.

Additionally, I’ve been looking into how the SENSE PRESSURE trait might affect other positions, namely blockers (HB, FB, TE & OL). There may very well be something there as well. When set to IDEAL, blockers seem psychic in that they anticipate attackers coming free or even are able to “know” an attacker is coming from a backside angle when they can’t possibly see them. Set to AVERAGE they make better decisions and hold there area better, unless they see an unblocked attacker. It is vital that HIGH MOTOR is turned off as it overrides everything else.

With HIGH MOTOR off and SENSE PRESSURE set to AVERAGE for blockers, I’m seeing far better blocking and the CPU actually has a run game. It is entirely possible that SENSE PRESSURE even has a positive affect on runners in how they attack running lanes and utilize blockers.

Think of SENSE PRESSURE as a bubble. The higher the setting (IDEAL being the highest), the smaller the bubble and the less likely a player is to react without a need.

Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from folks.

Been working on draft classes and noticed how strange some of these “sense pressure” settings were when the position wasn’t a qb. Seemed strange and kind of like it was intentional. Can’t wait to see what your tests do.

[mpd3892]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

I think we've only just really gotten started with this aspect and eventually more will come to light the more we look into the role traits play.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

I tried it for a quarter, got things to do. But with offensive lineman sense pressure set to average they definitely block way better for the running game and passing game. Need to test longer to see if it works for running backs. But needless to say with the line actually blocking, the CPU was definitely able to run the ball for positive yards. CPU RB even broke a 45 yard run. Set both QBs to average as well. For the limited time they threw the ball, 1 INT, 1 ball thrown away by the same QB. Going to test some more later on.

I was highly impressed with the blocking though. Like good lord the blocking with just changing that one trait only was 20 times better. They even picked up the blitz better. I was shocked. Oh yeah this was tested on default all pro.

[iMac2307]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

This is really interesting.

Myself and Trojan Man did so much testing last year around the Sense Pressure trait.

The issue with this though, is that you'd have to apply the same traits to every QB. If you get in to the situation where you're determining which trait they should have based on ratings, there is no longevity to it and it's not sustainable unless you want to me monitoring ratings all the time.

Then, it becomes really hard to actually test what traits are having what effect. There are so many variables that go in to the success of the passer, such as, pressure from DL, quality of DB's, quality of WR's, quality of OL, quality of playcalling...etc etc.

This was why I didn't incorporate QB traits in to my roster edits because you might think you're getting good results with a set of traits, then you realise their WR's are worse or better than the previous test, or the DB's you were playing were worse or better, yada yada yada... So it's very hard to get a controlled experiment down that wouldn't take up absolute days of your time, but I'd be interested to see what you find.

The notes about the sense pressure trait applying to OL is very interesting and when I am back in testing mode, I will likely give this a try. I will be keeping an eye on this to see what you find. Feel free to PM me with anything you think is particularly interesting to look at.

[timhere1970]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

For clarification, are we talking about the qb sense preassure trait affecting blocking or the individual blockers sense preassure trait?

[mpd3892]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

For clarification, are we talking about the qb sense preassure trait affecting blocking or the individual blockers sense preassure trait?

The individual player's sense pressure trait.

iMac, I agree with your insight on changing QBs. What I've been doing is only change QBs with ideal down to average. It makes them more patient in the pocket and improves their decision making. If every QB was changed to average, then, yes, there would be very little differentiation between how various QBs play in the pocket.

When I made this one change I saw far fewer sacks, better decisions and more passes down the field by top QBs. In a test game where I played as the Colts against the Eagles I was able to see much improved QB play. In the first game with no edits, Wentz (who was set to ideal) was sacked a number of times when he tried to spin out of the pocket because a rusher, who was being blocked, got too close. Wentz also checked down a lot and was quick to get the ball out.

Wentz was injured and out for a quarter. Foles, who was set to one of the lower sense pressure settings (I don't recall exactly which one) came in and the QB play was obviously different. He was jumpy, made bad reads and throws. The offense struggled to do anything. Eventually he settled down, but it was obvious that the QB play was far different then with Wentz.

In the second game with Wentz set to average, I saw completely different QB play. He was patient, took several shots down the field, threw the ball away when nothing was open and moved only when he had to.

I'm thinking that a definitive test, if someone was so inclined, would be to have 2 identical QBs (all ratings the same except sense pressure) and see how it plays out over several games. For me, I've seen enough evidence to believe setting QBs to average or lower is worth doing.

As to HBs, I'm not entirely sure the sense pressure trait helps them run better. I haven't really given that much of a look. What it does do is makes them better blockers, especially picking up the blitz or a rusher coming off another block.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

So average or oblivious works well for running backs. Oblivious basically turns the trait off. Ideal, trigger happy and paranoid make running backs do moves at the wrong time. I would do the tight ends as well considering they are used on running plays for blocking. It is a thing of beauty to see to see running backs hit the hole and do the correct moves at the correct times.

[capa]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

I changed my 1970 roster set so every player has Balanced and Average. Was not too bad since I only have completed 5 teams so far. Will tweak from there.

Since EA screwed the CPU QB running again this year, what is consensus for traits to make the CPU QB take off rather than just stand there and get hammered? How or why EA can't bring code forward from one release to another is beyond me!!

C

[audbal]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

So average or oblivious works well for running backs. Oblivious basically turns the trait off. Ideal, trigger happy and paranoid make running backs do moves at the wrong time. I would do the tight ends as well considering they are used on running plays for blocking. It is a thing of beauty to see to see running backs hit the hole and do the correct moves at the correct times.

Oh boy! This has fixed the running game for me! Putting these on average for running backs has made all the difference. The backs are hitting the hole and running downhill! The biggest problem I have is the QB, I play with SF and Garoppolo stays in the pocket to long and he starts running backwards and loses like 15 or 20 yards. Any trait fixes for that?

[mpd3892]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

With the trait adjustment for HBs, I’ve focused less on what they do and more on the defense and the what play is called.

With relation to the D, I’m putting all DL to oblivious. Played 1 game and too soon to tell.

What I have noticed is that a big problem with the CPU run game is that all too often it calls the wrong run play. I saw a number of times where I had outside containment with a safety or LB and the CPU would run right into the strength of my D, for negative yards of course. If I take out such runs, the CPU is actually able to mount a pretty good run game.

I would also suggest that when looking into things like this that it is good to try with different teams. I like to use the Colts as my test game to play with because their D is horrible, apologies Colts fans. If the CPU can’t run against them, then I know there’s a problem.


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[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

So far I tried it with the Bears, Cowboys, Giants, 49ers and the Bills. Plays out well so far. Obviously the better the offensive line is, the better and more consistent their running game will be. Cowboys were very good running the ball. Zeke had some nice runs. Bears were so so. Cohen had a few good runs out of shotgun formation, Howard was hit or miss. But then again the Bears offensive line is bad. Also noticed the Bears throw the ball way more then they run it.

49ers had some good runs. The Giants had some good runs. The Bills were so so like the Bears. Far as the QB, haven't figured out how to make them run yet. QBs just seem hell bent on staying behind the LOS.

[d23x]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

Oh boy! This has fixed the running game for me! Putting these on average for running backs has made all the difference. The backs are hitting the hole and running downhill! The biggest problem I have is the QB, I play with SF and Garoppolo stays in the pocket to long and he starts running backwards and loses like 15 or 20 yards. Any trait fixes for that?

I’ve come to the conclusion that cpu QB are incredibly stupid this year. Hold the ball way too long, runners never look to run, it’s awful.

[CoachCraven]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

Oh boy! This has fixed the running game for me! Putting these on average for running backs has made all the difference. The backs are hitting the hole and running downhill! The biggest problem I have is the QB, I play with SF and Garoppolo stays in the pocket to long and he starts running backwards and loses like 15 or 20 yards. Any trait fixes for that?

I changed Jimmy's QB style from "pocket" to "balanced" and cut down on this dramatically. I noticed playing preseason that the back up was making better choices and running when appropriate. Granted, he was playing against lesser opponents, but it still got me thinking. I can't say for certain what true scrambling QB's would do, but it's a start.

[mpd3892]

Re: SENSE PRESSURE TRAIT AND HOW IT AFFECTS GAMEPLAY

I’m thinking that for HBs it might be best to set their sense pressure to oblivious. In a couple games it appears they make less unnecessary moves and run better. The issue is that they will be less effective when they stay in to block. It’s a trade off.


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