Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

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  • Erithtotl
    Pro
    • Aug 2002
    • 679

    #1

    Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

    So, I made the 'mistake' of starting this year with a PF, SC/Post. Like a lot of people I saw the good ratings and badges and thought it would make a nice blend of skills, especially with supposedly improved post play in 2k19.

    What I have discovered though is that due to the inability to finish inside, glacial post moves, and the ease of scoring 3s and transition, that bigs are more worthless than ever unless you want to play a pure rebounder.

    So after getting my guy to 90, I abandoned him and started a PG. With my PF, I could go into rec and get a game almost immediately, but with my PG, %95 of the time I go in and its me and 2 wings waiting for 5-10 minutes without success to get the 4 and 5 spot filled.

    This tells me no one wants to play bigs anymore.

    There is an argument that the NBA itself is de-emphasizing big men so 2K19 is just following the trends. Here's the problem though. 2K19's build system isn't flexible enough to create a 2018 big man. You can't make a Draymond Green, an Anthony Davis, a KAT, or a KP. Heck, even Durant is essentially a PF or C now. You can only make one dimensional stretches, rebounders, dive men and post scorers. While there are definitely some players that like to play dunking rebounders, the scarcity of them in rec tells me that they are in the minority.

    If 2K wants to really reflect the modern NBA, we need more flexibility on big men. Look at a playmaking shot creator or slashing shot creator. Those guards/wings can do a bit of everything. Maybe not as well as their real life counterparts, but you can at least create a multi dimensional shooting/passing/driving threat. You can't do that 'well' with a big. And if you try, the 7'3" pure rebounder is going to get 25 boards on you. (I can't recall Draymond Green getting destroyed by Dwight Howard or Clint Capella every matchup.)

    Is 2K even aware of the death of the big man in their game? Do they care? It seems like for it to be viable going forward they need people playing all 5 positions.
  • ksuttonjr76
    All Star
    • Nov 2004
    • 8662

    #2
    Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

    Personally, I blame it more on the online mentality of gamers. Being a big in itself is not the problem. The problem lies with gamers who don't know how or care to work with a big. If you not setting screens for them or grabbing rebound to kick back out to them for 3's, then most people really don't care about bigs. I usually have a defensive type big just so I feel like I'm doing something else other than doing the aforementioned things.

    It's all about breaking ankles and how many threes you can splash in someone else's face with a green release.

    Comment

    • Erithtotl
      Pro
      • Aug 2002
      • 679

      #3
      Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

      Originally posted by ksuttonjr76
      Personally, I blame it more on the online mentality of gamers. Being a big in itself is not the problem. The problem lies with gamers who don't know how or care to work with a big. If you not setting screens for them or grabbing rebound to kick back out to them for 3's, then most people really don't care about bigs. I usually have a defensive type big just so I feel like I'm doing something else other than doing the aforementioned things.

      It's all about breaking ankles and how many threes you can splash in someone else's face with a green release.
      This is definitely a factor. But it remains that bigs just aren't that effective on offense because perimeter is overpowered. Shooting %60 from the post is like shooting %40 from 3, and most sharps shoot way higher than that because of overpowered outside shooting.
      5 min
      Once again I'm sitting waiting in rec center, 2 PGs and an SF. 15 minutes and counting.
      Last edited by Erithtotl; 09-23-2018, 11:58 AM.

      Comment

      • 24ct
        Pro
        • Sep 2012
        • 884

        #4
        Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

        Well the bigs in the NBA are pretty much a thing of the past. If you look at it there’s not many post up bigs in the NBA. They’re all face ups now. The adapted players shoot 3s just like guards. No big gets a call for a post up anymore except for maybe Boogie, AD & Aldridge, so it’s not 2Ks fault for the online community not wanting a big to dominate.

        I say that to say post scoring is near unstoppable this year. Post hop fades are hard to guard. The drop steps are deadly if you use them. Stretch bigs are just as good as pure sharps. Athletic finishers lethal. But Park is run & gun. 3s in Park is just like a 3 in the NBA. Why take a 2 if you can get a 3?

        I wouldn’t say bigs are dead but the meta/winning formula has always been a primary ball handler/scorer, a shooter & a defender/rebounder build. It won’t change.


        I don’t really understand the dilemma tho. If you are a big IRL your job would be to set hard screens, space the floor, grab rebounds & finish at the rim & protect the rim, right?

        Comment

        • Mani Gultinder
          Rookie
          • Sep 2017
          • 45

          #5
          Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

          Originally posted by Erithtotl
          This is definitely a factor. But it remains that bigs just aren't that effective on offense because perimeter is overpowered. Shooting %60 from the post is like shooting %40 from 3, and most sharps shoot way higher than that because of overpowered outside shooting.
          5 min
          Once again I'm sitting waiting in rec center, 2 PGs and an SF. 15 minutes and counting.


          Moneyball baby! That being said I run with a slashing max post who is a beast. We run four out options when in half court and it works well cause his IQ and ability is pretty high.

          For some reason he doesn’t suffer the difficulty in finishing at all that I know many others do.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • 3ShowTime2
            Rookie
            • Apr 2017
            • 379

            #6
            Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

            Originally posted by ksuttonjr76
            Personally, I blame it more on the online mentality of gamers. Being a big in itself is not the problem. The problem lies with gamers who don't know how or care to work with a big. If you not setting screens for them or grabbing rebound to kick back out to them for 3's, then most people really don't care about bigs. I usually have a defensive type big just so I feel like I'm doing something else other than doing the aforementioned things.

            It's all about breaking ankles and how many threes you can splash in someone else's face with a green release.

            I agree with this. Bigs themselves are not the problem, they are powerful. And I think the problem is not even that people "dont know" how to utilize them, its that they DONT CARE. Why waste time with a post scorer if I can just catch a screen, run to the baseline and hit 14/15 difficult shots. Really, im already seeing shotties again going 15/17, sharps going 9/11 from downtown regularly like its 2k18. Why should you go big or on the other hand give them the ball if its that easy to score?

            Comment

            • loso_34
              MVP
              • Jul 2010
              • 1352

              #7
              Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

              I think most bigs haven’t adjusted to the new layup timing this year.

              Comment

              • Goffs
                New Ork Giants
                • Feb 2003
                • 12279

                #8
                Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                7'1 Rim protector/finisher here and I average like 5 blocks a game in the rec. Even though I'm a finisher I rarely hang around the post because it way too crowded and my guy can't really finish strong anyway.

                So I hang back a bit to stop the outlet passes and I love it when they want to dunk on me only to be blocked. I may not score at all but on the defensive side I'm a force.

                This is the first year since 2k11 that I've felt good as a defensive center. I kinda wish I went pure instead since inside slasher can't score anyway. Maybe the cap breaker will help but I doubt I will go past 91.

                Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

                Comment

                • Erithtotl
                  Pro
                  • Aug 2002
                  • 679

                  #9
                  Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                  Originally posted by 24ct
                  Well the bigs in the NBA are pretty much a thing of the past. If you look at it there’s not many post up bigs in the NBA. They’re all face ups now. The adapted players shoot 3s just like guards. No big gets a call for a post up anymore except for maybe Boogie, AD & Aldridge, so it’s not 2Ks fault for the online community not wanting a big to dominate.

                  I say that to say post scoring is near unstoppable this year. Post hop fades are hard to guard. The drop steps are deadly if you use them. Stretch bigs are just as good as pure sharps. Athletic finishers lethal. But Park is run & gun. 3s in Park is just like a 3 in the NBA. Why take a 2 if you can get a 3?

                  I wouldn’t say bigs are dead but the meta/winning formula has always been a primary ball handler/scorer, a shooter & a defender/rebounder build. It won’t change.


                  I don’t really understand the dilemma tho. If you are a big IRL your job would be to set hard screens, space the floor, grab rebounds & finish at the rim & protect the rim, right?
                  I think you missed one of the key parts of my post. You can't create a modern face up big in the game. Versatile guys like AD, KAT, KP, Draymond, etc. 2K forces you into the narrow Clint Capella role or the Marvin Williams role, while guards can be very versatile with builds that can shoot, drive, pass and defend.

                  Comment

                  • 3ShowTime2
                    Rookie
                    • Apr 2017
                    • 379

                    #10
                    Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                    Originally posted by Erithtotl
                    I think you missed one of the key parts of my post. You can't create a modern face up big in the game. Versatile guys like AD, KAT, KP, Draymond, etc. 2K forces you into the narrow Clint Capella role or the Marvin Williams role, while guards can be very versatile with builds that can shoot, drive, pass and defend.
                    Thats not only a problem with bigs, 2k's archetype system in general is a problem. You cant create any superstar in 2k because they excel in more than two parts of the game. I already said last year that we need a tertiary archetype or more flexibility in general.

                    The current archetype system is also flawed in itself. Why are layups and slashing tied together? Is Kyrie a master of layups? For sure, but a slasher? Ummm...

                    Sent from my SM-G950F using Operation Sports mobile app

                    Comment

                    • Rockie_Fresh88
                      Lockdown Defender
                      • Oct 2011
                      • 9621

                      #11
                      Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                      I think bigs are still fine. You are just forced to play your role more . But I do think it’s harder to be a go to scorer as a big compared to a wing.

                      3s rule
                      #1 Laker fan
                      First Team Defense !!!

                      Comment

                      • Erithtotl
                        Pro
                        • Aug 2002
                        • 679

                        #12
                        Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                        Originally posted by 24ct
                        Well the bigs in the NBA are pretty much a thing of the past. If you look at it there’s not many post up bigs in the NBA. They’re all face ups now. The adapted players shoot 3s just like guards. No big gets a call for a post up anymore except for maybe Boogie, AD & Aldridge, so it’s not 2Ks fault for the online community not wanting a big to dominate.

                        I say that to say post scoring is near unstoppable this year. Post hop fades are hard to guard. The drop steps are deadly if you use them. Stretch bigs are just as good as pure sharps. Athletic finishers lethal. But Park is run & gun. 3s in Park is just like a 3 in the NBA. Why take a 2 if you can get a 3?

                        I wouldn’t say bigs are dead but the meta/winning formula has always been a primary ball handler/scorer, a shooter & a defender/rebounder build. It won’t change.


                        I don’t really understand the dilemma tho. If you are a big IRL your job would be to set hard screens, space the floor, grab rebounds & finish at the rim & protect the rim, right?
                        I think you missed one of the key parts of my post. You can't create a modern face up big in the game. Versatile guys like AD, KAT, KP, Draymond, etc. 2K forces you into the narrow Clint Capella role or the Marvin Williams role. I know specialization is a product of the archetype system, but its relatively easy to create a guard who can shoot, pass and drive. Once you get above 6'8", you start losing so much on the skill side of the game.

                        Comment

                        • The 24th Letter
                          ERA
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 39373

                          #13
                          Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                          Originally posted by Erithtotl
                          I think you missed one of the key parts of my post. You can't create a modern face up big in the game. Versatile guys like AD, KAT, KP, Draymond, etc. 2K forces you into the narrow Clint Capella role or the Marvin Williams role. I know specialization is a product of the archetype system, but its relatively easy to create a guard who can shoot, pass and drive. Once you get above 6'8", you start losing so much on the skill side of the game.
                          I definitely agree that a face-up big man should be something that 2K should look to implement in the future.

                          This is different than the idea that bigs are useless or that 2K is pushing you away from using them though . There was a lot of love given to the big man this year, especially the post game...with some even claiming they're OP. The position isn't as sexy as others, nor do most teams really know how to play with one...which may contribute to why you dont see as many...but my 2 way center has been very effective.

                          Comment

                          • Rockie_Fresh88
                            Lockdown Defender
                            • Oct 2011
                            • 9621

                            #14
                            Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                            Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                            I definitely agree that a face-up big man should be something that 2K should look to implement in the future.

                            This is different than the idea that bigs are useless or that 2K is pushing you away from using them though . There was a lot of love given to the big man this year, especially the post game...with some even claiming they're OP. The position isn't as sexy as others, nor do most teams really know how to play with one...which may contribute to why you dont see as many...but my 2 way center has been very effective.
                            2k hurt the faceup game by lowering the midrange for almost every big man build .

                            The post is still very effective . I can even still face up as a PF . But most PGs prefer to chase after a three than to feed the post .
                            #1 Laker fan
                            First Team Defense !!!

                            Comment

                            • The 24th Letter
                              ERA
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 39373

                              #15
                              Re: Is 2K driving people to abandon playing bigs?

                              Originally posted by Rockie_Fresh88
                              2k hurt the faceup game by lowering the midrange for almost every big man build .

                              The post is still very effective . I can even still face up as a PF . But most PGs prefer to chase after a three than to feed the post .
                              Exactly. Like you said- all about the 3.

                              I actually played a Pro Am Team who went to the post exclusively throughout the game. Spaced appropriately, made post reentry's and everything .I want to say their post scorer was a 90-91. I wanted to message them after like "Ya'll hiring?" Lol

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