Calling anyone that grapples in real life

[Phillyboi207]

Hopefuly we can get some insight to your approach or the “meta” when grappling IRL

Can you specify what parts of the current ground system replicates or completely misses the mark when it comes to real life grappling?

Could be an interesting discussion to help the Devs bridge the gap hopefully for UFC4.

[WarMMA]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

Thing is some of the devs grapple irl. I think GPD grapples himself. Now idk if they do mma or just bjj. But anyone who has experience know's it's a whole different ball game when grappling with strikes involved. As far as my approach when i'm grappling irl, i'm always a position first guy. On top I like to establish a solid base to maintain control and then work from there. Sort of like a wrestling lay n pray style. Sadly that's not really be replicated in this game to well. If i'm on bottom, I like to work the half guard and deep half game. I'll work with what my opponent gives me and try to set up or look for openings for sweeps and to stand back up, as I really don't like being on my back. Concerning the game, the part I think they replicated well is the simultaneous grappling and what I think they missed totally was clinch movement. It's on it's way to being the best mma game ever though and with more additions, tweaks and more revolutionary ideas by GPD's brilliant mind, it should soon be there.

[bmlimo]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

Hopefuly we can get some insight to your approach or the “meta” when grappling IRL

Can you specify what parts of the current ground system replicates or completely misses the mark when it comes to real life grappling?

Could be an interesting discussion to help the Devs bridge the gap hopefully for UFC4.

In my experience as a blue belt with mma experience, grappling is about to do your game and make your opponent fall in it, like a chess match, u can hold your opponent in a position waiting him to go to we’re you want to swip or submit... if ea ufc 3 were a bjj game, it would work almost perfect(deny shouldn’t be the key to hold position) but we are talking about MMA it’s a different kind of grappling. In MMA you have strikes, you have the referee looking for action. U just can’t stall looking for your opponent open you have to create it by strikes!!!
The guy on bottom has to defend himself all the time but has more space to work because the guy on top is always forced to be active.




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UFC undisputed 3 had the ground game close to the real life one, it wasn’t perfect but we are talking about a very very old game...
I believe if they try to replicate that system again fixing the bugs and upgrading it... we will archive what we want... ea ufc grappling its terrible and a lagger dream

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

Well, if we are going by real life grapplers, everyone has favored positions. In order to make it anything like real life, every position would have to have more options. There shouldn't really be a hierarchy of positions like it is now. Not everyone has a good mount or good crucifix.

There needs to almost be an entirely separate grappling system within each position to even approach an accurate representation. Some fighters favor half guard rather than full guard on bottom, but in game there is absolutely no reason to place yourself in half guard if guard is available.

Maia pulls half guard in order to sit up and single leg guys. There needs to be tons of setups like that. If someone is good at half guard bottom and understands that system and has stats better than you, you should be trying to avoid that and head straight into side control from stacked guard. Something along those lines.

More stats are always a good thing. There should be stats for every position or at least move levels for every transition. I know this would take a monumental amount of work and is likely never going to happen, but a dozen setups for every position with minor transitions (something already been discussed at length on this board) would be the best way to make this fluid. The transitions would be faster, but have less impact.

If people thought the ground game was too complex now, these systems would blow up their pea-sized heads. Another thing to worry about from a developmental standpoint. However, you could really go all in on some of the exclusive stand-up only modes for the casual fans to counteract the backlash.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

Hopefuly we can get some insight to your approach or the “meta” when grappling IRL

Can you specify what parts of the current ground system replicates or completely misses the mark when it comes to real life grappling?

Could be an interesting discussion to help the Devs bridge the gap hopefully for UFC4.

The initiation for certain things is pretty good, in terms of undeniable TDs and cage work.

Momentum transitions make sense since, well grappling generally involves momentum from what you feel.

Other than that, I feel as if the clinch is way way way too static. Clinch work is much more fast paced going to position from position, and the fact that one denial can basically screw you in the clinch is relatively unrealistic. In wrestling especially at the Collegiate level, we're constantly fighting for position, we don't get tired (lose 30% of our stamina in UFC 3) because of our one opponents 'denial' of say an underhook or collar tie.

There's a myriad of other things I don't agree with, but I'd be more than willing to do as much as I can to suggest things so it can be better for the future.

[WarMMA]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

In my experience as a blue belt with mma experience, grappling is about to do your game and make your opponent fall in it, like a chess match, u can hold your opponent in a position waiting him to go to we’re you want to swip or submit... if ea ufc 3 were a bjj game, it would work almost perfect(deny shouldn’t be the key to hold position) but we are talking about MMA it’s a different kind of grappling. In MMA you have strikes, you have the referee looking for action. U just can’t stall looking for your opponent open you have to create it by strikes!!!
The guy on bottom has to defend himself all the time but has more space to work because the guy on top is always forced to be active.




-
UFC undisputed 3 had the ground game close to the real life one, it wasn’t perfect but we are talking about a very very old game...
I believe if they try to replicate that system again fixing the bugs and upgrading it... we will archive what we want... ea ufc grappling its terrible and a lagger dream

I think EA's system is closer to real life tbh. Independant grappling, momentum, ect. However one thing I will say UD3 did well that hasn't been done in an mma game since was how it's posturing system worked. The ability to stay postured down to maintain better control after you broke the bottom guys initial posture control was a big plus, that added authenticity to the grappling. It made it feel a bit more like you were trying to hold someone down and maintain position.

[Haz_____]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

I train twice a week, and I absolutely love submission grappling irl, but I'm mostly a striker in the game. The grappling in game just doesn't feel anything like grappling irl.

It's too slow, and static, simplistic, and limited in positions and movements. The whole holding a direction and watching a bar load up just feels terrible. The feel is important. Something like the swoop, like the prior games had just FEELS so much better. It feels like youre actually doing something. Think Tony Hawks Pro Skater, where you just press the button to do a trick, compared to SKATE where you manipulate & flick the analog stick to do a trick. SKATE blew peoples minds when it came out because of how fun it FEELS to play. Take that exact same game, but put old school Tony Hawk controls in it and it wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful.

Beyond that there just needs to be more options. Way more. More transitions, more positions, more submissions. More control. Less focus on "fakes" and more on options.

Maybe something like multi stage transitions and submissions, that you navigate/ scramble through.

There's a lot of room for improvement.

[Haz_____]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

Here's a little edit from us getting some rolls in after class the other day. I'm the skinny dude with the green spats. Nothing special here. Just having some fun getting some extra work in. You will see a ton a **** ups, and the most ghetto bodega imanari roll ever though. Lol.

I'd love to check out any clips or edits you guys have.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aGHgJUQxtEo?controls=0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Yeah though. Grappling irl is just sooooo much more dynamic and fluid than in the game. There's a lot more focus on tons of little battles. Rather than singular large sweeping transitions. An underhook here, a butterfly hook there. It's a constant ebb and flow of incremental positonal changes on both sides.

[MacGowan]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life


my grappling credentials

Small question: why is there no GET UP from back mount sub? it's like the only reason to turn your back (asides from getting punched in the face)

[chia]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

Eh there is a lot wrong with the Grappling in game from a BJJ or MMA perspective. The number one thing is the ridiculous stamina mismanagement that I have harped on since day one and I will never relent my position on. It’s complete rubbish.

Everything else is a domino effect of mistakes from there but it all starts with the whack stamina.

[WarMMA]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life


my grappling credentials

Fight the hands dammit! She's still at seatbelt...she ain't got you yet lol

Small question: why is there no GET UP from back mount sub? it's like the only reason to turn your back (asides from getting punched in the face)

And you mean from back mount facing down? Or all back mount positions? My guess is cuz they added the arm trap escape thingy. I wouldn't mind a transition from sub back mount (facing down) to sub back clinch though...like the one from sub back side.

[NEWSS]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

I'm a BJJ blue belt, I won't get into the timing-based mechanic to hold position since someone got nervous in another thread. It is what it is and maybe it's balanced from a gameplay perspective. One thing that I'll mention though, isn't it the transition from bottom half guard to back-take too easy to perform? Should'it it at least be assigned to elite grapplers only? How often do you see that back take in MMA?

[WarMMA]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

I'm a BJJ blue belt, I won't get into the timing-based mechanic to hold position since someone got nervous in another thread. It is what it is and maybe it's balanced from a gameplay perspective. One thing that I'll mention though, isn't it the transition from bottom half guard to back-take too easy to perform? Should'it it at least be assigned to elite grapplers only? How often do you see that back take in MMA?

Yh I agree. They made it a regular thing given to all fighters, when that's definitely more a high lvl move. I also feel the same way about so many fighters have the transition from full guard to back mount.

[Papadoc60]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

I'm a BJJ blue belt, I won't get into the timing-based mechanic to hold position since someone got nervous in another thread. It is what it is and maybe it's balanced from a gameplay perspective. One thing that I'll mention though, isn't it the transition from bottom half guard to back-take too easy to perform? Should'it it at least be assigned to elite grapplers only? How often do you see that back take in MMA?

The half guard to back take is not easy to perform, it's one of the slowest transitions in the game and at neutral grapple advantage you should have at least 3-5 seconds to react and deny it. If you let someone go from submissive half guard to dominant back sitting or back side, you made a huge mistake and probably deserve to give up position like that. Wrestlers or anyone without decent grappling credentials usually go from half guard to back side (not back sitting) which makes sense to me as well.

[WarMMA]

Re: Calling anyone that grapples in real life

The half guard to back take is not easy to perform, it's one of the slowest transitions in the game and at neutral grapple advantage you should have at least 3-5 seconds to react and deny it. If you let someone go from submissive half guard to dominant back sitting or back side, you made a huge mistake and probably deserve to give up position like that. Wrestlers or anyone without decent grappling credentials usually go from half guard to back side (not back sitting) which makes sense to me as well.

We know it's easy to deny. Just saying that it shouldn't be just some regular transition every fighter has. For example if I had it my way, both left and right would be transitions back to full guard. Only certain fighters would have the transition to back take or back side as a unique transition where you hold a modifier, like how the getup from half guard works. So for a more vivid example, a fighter like Cro Cop on his back in half guard would only have transition left or right to full guard and the getup. He's basic on the ground so he wont have that kind of stuff, while a fighter like Werdum would have transition left or right to full guard and unique transition to back take or getup by holding modifier. He's an elite grappler, so he'll have moves like that. That's the kind of thing we're getting at. Doing things this way will help separate the elite ground guys from the basic even further, the way it should be.