EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

[MacAttack33]

Which has better grappling, EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3?

[Gion]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

UD3 has more satisfying controls and ground n pound. However UFC 3 has better submissions and all around logic of grappling. For instance GnP builds grapple advantage for faster transition i.e "pass to strike, strike to pass". Striking with the arm holding the head causes immediate posturing, then we have all sorts of momentum and contextual transitions. So for me its UFC 3

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[MacAttack33]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

UD3 has more satisfying controls and ground n pound. However UFC 3 has better submissions and all around logic of grappling. For instance GnP builds grapple advantage for faster transition i.e "pass to strike, strike to pass". Striking with the arm holding the head causes immediate posturing, then we have all sorts of momentum and contextual transitions. So for me its UFC 3

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I just think this logic could be implemented with a much better control scheme like the one UD3 had. Much more satisfying controls I agree along with better wrestling, clinching, and more fluid transitioning between striking, clinching and the ground game.

[Haz_____]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

I train No Gi Submission Grappling(Combat Sambo, & CACC with some BJJ) twice a week, and been goin mostly on, with a few months off here and there for about 2 years now. I'm a pretty obsessive person in general but am crazy obsessed with grappling irl, and just how endlessly deep and technical it is. Despite my coach having a backround in Sambo and CACC, I've taken a strong attraction to sport Jiu Jitsu, just for all the wild techniques you can do when you're not worried about real self defense.

Anyways, I absolutely hate grappling in UFC 3. It feels nothing like grappling irl. It's slow. Clunky. Weird, goofy looking "fakes" that are so far from anything seen in reality. Unengaging submission system.. Horrendous UI, with goofy loading bars. Bad feeling controls.. "Grapple Advantage" makes literally no sense at all.. I get that there are a few positions or scenerios where I see where theyre coming from, but a lot of the time it's a purely video gamey mechanic. I don't know. But grappling in this game is just not fun at all.

And this is coming from a guy that watches grappling technique videos all week long, and can't wait for my Wed/Sun classes. Id roll all day untill I dropped irl if I could. It's so friggin' addicting, and fun. I think about it non stop. But even with that deep obsession, and love for grappling, I just can not for the life of me get into it in this game.

Nothing about it feels fun, or rewarding for me.

Most of the time it devolves into a waiting game trying to get the denial, or turns into a weird fake war to get something through. It just almost never feels engaging and fun at all to me.

I pretty much avoid the ground in this game. Which is sad, because I'm a diehard grappling head.


*edit* Momentum transitions are legit though. By far the best idea/mechanic in the grappling systems we have here.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

UD3.

Aside from the better mechanics & variety, I don't think denying transitions or holding position should require fast reflexes on top of a directional guessing game. It just doesn't feel immersive. EA UFC manages to make grappling feel too much like a race. Ya gotta race to deny the opponents move and immediately make yours cuz now you got an advantage, that's too arcadey and grappling shouldn't feel so rushed.

UD3 you had to hold position and carefully make your next move. As the bottom fighter, you felt you could benefit from being calm and patient like fighters irl.

But grappling has such a frantic pace in EA UFC compared to UD. I loved literally holding position by holding down the sticks and there's a lot more they can add to it like leg positioning (using the legs to lock around the opponents body or their legs) as someone else on here brought up.

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[Reinfarcements]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

"Grapple Advantage" makes literally no sense at all..

Well I see what they were going for in some aspects of GA. For instance if you are smashing your opponents face with your elbow repeatedly, that should in fact make getting to Full Mount a bit easier lol.

But here is an opinion from someone who has always preferred the stand-up in MMA games. UD3 grappling simply made more sense to my brain. The fast pace, the explosive ground and pound, the sways, the simple one button deny / stand-up, ect... it all just clicked with me more than UFC 3's grapple game when the fight inevitably goes to the ground once in a while.

That being said, I there are definitely some cool things about UFC 3's grappling. I don't feel it is a complete failure or is beyond fixing or anything like that. I just feel the over-all focus needs to get away from "transition fakes" and memorizing every single little animation on the ground.

I still avoid the clinch like the plague because all those animations look similar to me, and I don't see myself ever wanting to take the time to try and memorize them all. As someone who is taking some college courses at the moment, the last thing I want to do is memorize more stuff.

[Gion]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

I train No Gi Submission Grappling(Combat Sambo, & CACC with some BJJ) twice a week, and been goin mostly on, with a few months off here and there for about 2 years now. I'm a pretty obsessive person in general but am crazy obsessed with grappling irl, and just how endlessly deep and technical it is. Despite my coach having a backround in Sambo and CACC, I've taken a strong attraction to sport Jiu Jitsu, just for all the wild techniques you can do when you're not worried about real self defense.

Anyways, I absolutely hate grappling in UFC 3. It feels nothing like grappling irl. It's slow. Clunky. Weird, goofy looking "fakes" that are so far from anything seen in reality. Unengaging submission system.. Horrendous UI, with goofy loading bars. Bad feeling controls.. "Grapple Advantage" makes literally no sense at all.. I get that there are a few positions or scenerios where I see where theyre coming from, but a lot of the time it's a purely video gamey mechanic. I don't know. But grappling in this game is just not fun at all.

And this is coming from a guy that watches grappling technique videos all week long, and can't wait for my Wed/Sun classes. Id roll all day untill I dropped irl if I could. It's so friggin' addicting, and fun. I think about it non stop. But even with that deep obsession, and love for grappling, I just can not for the life of me get into it in this game.

Nothing about it feels fun, or rewarding for me.

Most of the time it devolves into a waiting game trying to get the denial, or turns into a weird fake war to get something through. It just almost never feels engaging and fun at all to me.

I pretty much avoid the ground in this game. Which is sad, because I'm a diehard grappling head.


*edit* Momentum transitions are legit though. By far the best idea/mechanic in the grappling systems we have here.

Most parts of grapple advantage aren't arcadey at all. Miss a leg kick or a haymaker? Opponent gains grapple advantage. Out of temp stamina and need to take some deep breaths after exerting yourself? Grapple advantage. Strike to pass grapple advantage is a very real thing. Using strikes to further position and positional awareness for denials are realistic. Better than UD3s "hold stick down and deny everything" just holding somebody down isn't going to deny half guard sweeps and a deep underhook back take. Sure it can be implemented better, and those transition fake battles can be very unrealistic, but it's the best we've seen so far. Very hard to translate a sport you can practice with your eyes closed to a game controller

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[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

Most parts of grapple advantage aren't arcadey at all. Miss a leg kick or a haymaker? Opponent gains grapple advantage. Out of temp stamina and need to take some deep breaths after exerting yourself? Grapple advantage. Strike to pass grapple advantage is a very real thing. Using strikes to further position and positional awareness for denials are realistic. Better than UD3s "hold stick down and deny everything" just holding somebody down isn't going to deny half guard sweeps and a deep underhook back take. Sure it can be implemented better, and those transition fake battles can be very unrealistic, but it's the best we've seen so far. Very hard to translate a sport you can practice with your eyes closed to a game controller

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It USED TO make sense, but in UFC 3, it's completely abysmal. I don't go for takedowns in this game at all b/c I really dislike the grappling, so I just defend against it. I can't even begin the tell you how many times I've stopped take downs in mid kick, the takedown window is incredibly large. Instead, they just made "undeniable" takedowns you have to predetermine are coming to "pre-deny".

The GA is so @$$ backwards now, that you have better GA advantage after get hit with a kick (even when you are rocked!) than avoiding the kick and going for a td mid kick! Are you sure you're still not playing UFC 2? Lol, cuz that's when GA was still somewhat realistic. Now it's a mess and almost nonexistent b/c it's all about these "undeniable" takedowns. Actual realistic takedown windows are nearly obsolete, so GA means nothing. I've shook my head at some of the denys I've been able to make on people knowing I should've been on my butt.

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[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

@gentleman ghost ...exactly one shouldn't be able to deny a takedown mid kick without a struggle at least but some TDD animations are just mind boggling

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[ragreynolds]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

The underlying logic of UFC 3’s grappling system is without question much better than UD3. The simple fact that two people can try to transition different ways at the same time makes UFC 3 superior to UD3. UFC 3 grappling is by no means perfect, in fact, I wouldn’t even call it great, it has a long way to go before it’s actually fun to grapple, but it’s still much better than UD3 in terms of realism and logic. The only thing better about UD3 was the ground and pound, a few extra positions, and the rocks on the ground. If UFC 3 had those things, it would be better than UD3 in every possible way.

[MacAttack33]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

UD3.

Aside from the better mechanics & variety, I don't think denying transitions or holding position should require fast reflexes on top of a directional guessing game. It just doesn't feel immersive. EA UFC manages to make grappling feel too much like a race. Ya gotta race to deny the opponents move and immediately make yours cuz now you got an advantage, that's too arcadey and grappling shouldn't feel so rushed.

UD3 you had to hold position and carefully make your next move. As the bottom fighter, you felt you could benefit from being calm and patient like fighters irl.

But grappling has such a frantic pace in EA UFC compared to UD. I loved literally holding position by holding down the sticks and there's a lot more they can add to it like leg positioning (using the legs to lock around the opponents body or their legs) as someone else on here brought up.

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This is really what ruins it and makes it completely un-fun for me as well. And as Haz said, again this is coming from someone who has trained extensively so it's very disappointing that I have to hate the grappling in this game so much but I do.

I loved holding down the sticks instead as well. The mechanic just worked and people didn't hate it. You could really be a bit patient as the bottom fighter as you said, without having to win a race just to deny a transition.

[Morgan Monkman]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

Haz summed up the ground game pretty good. Atrocious.

[1212headkick]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

We had this poll before but had s problem with fake accounts voting. UD3 still won

[WarMMA]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

The underlying logic of UFC 3’s grappling system is without question much better than UD3. The simple fact that two people can try to transition different ways at the same time makes UFC 3 superior to UD3. UFC 3 grappling is by no means perfect, in fact, I wouldn’t even call it great, it has a long way to go before it’s actually fun to grapple, but it’s still much better than UD3 in terms of realism and logic. The only thing better about UD3 was the ground and pound, a few extra positions, and the rocks on the ground. If UFC 3 had those things, it would be better than UD3 in every possible way.

My sentiments exactly. EA UFC's ground game just has to be fleshed out more.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: EA UFC 3 or Undisputed 3 ground game?

The GA is so @$$ backwards now, that you have better GA advantage after get hit with a kick (even when you are rocked!) than avoiding the kick and going for a td mid kick!

It's possible your reading the GA meter @$$ backwards, because what you wrote here is completely untrue.