Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

[metallidevils]

As a pretty casual player, I think Madden is pretty fun this year because players like Tyreek Hill are really incredible, and Joey Bosa was giving me fits.

However in my Chiefs franchise, I happened to lose in the first round of the playoffs with Mahomes, then couldn't afford to re-sign him, and then signed 79 (I think) overall Nick Mullens, and won the superbowl.

Mahomes felt awesome, he had the best throw on run accuracy I've seen in a football game. However Mullens, 20 points less overall, had a good enough throw accuracy in the pocket that I was still completing almost the same % of my passes (just had to stay in the pocket, obviously).

I think the biggest difference between elite QBs and the rest is more in their decision making, which, in a video game, is irrelevant because the user is controlling the QB.

Any suggestions on how EA can truly separate elite QBs from everyone else?

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I tend to disagree in my experience. I have found the non-elite guys to be well below the starters. A 79 is in the mid/low tier range for a starting caliber player so that could be why you're not experiencing as extreme of a drop off. However, from what I've seen the low rated QB's have many more off-target passes and they're AWFUL when any kind of pressure is on them.

I have had a 65 and a 59 rated backup at different points in my CFM and playing with those guys was a joke. They were INT machines that wouldn't hit a basic slant half of the time. And that's how it should be.

Even playing with an elite guy in the mid/upper 90's and then dropping to someone in that mid/low tier starter range of the upper 70's to mid 80's has been a dropoff in my experience.

What difficulty are you on? On All-Pro and All-Madden Sim I've seen a big differentiation in those ratings.

[ehh]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I've had good variety but there are still some games where an average or poor QB goes off for the CPU. I've seen some real duds...

Josh Allen completed 17/46 against me and at one point was 6/24.
Nick Foles was dreadful, as was Fitzpatrick. Foles started 1/10 I believe.
I even had one rain game where Mahomes stunk up the joint.

Overall, I'm pleased. It's not perfect but it's pretty more than acceptable in my experience. For HUM, it's all about the QBA slider. Darnold has some games where he misses a ton of throws but many games where he's great.

Most of my games have been played on default AP. I recently moved to Matt10's sliders.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

It might depend on the lower rated QB’s rating spread. A field general type could sit in the pocket and get by on accuracy alone. A mobile QB really needs more ratings to be higher though.

Edit: I’m thinking of letting Josh Rosen go for this reason. He’s up to 84 in 2021 and wants $30M+ per year. He’s definitely better now than he was at 70 to start 2019 but I mostly sit in the pocket with him and zip the ball around on short-medium routes since he’s not particularly strong or quick. I’m pretty sure I can replace him. If he were faster... yea, I’d pay him.

[timhere1970]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

It also depends on awareness to a large degree. A 68 overall with a low awareness rating is going to be a lot better than a 68 overall with a high awareness rating when controlled by a human. If he is a 68 overall with high awareness he has some really bad attributes in other areas. The awareness has no effect when being controlled by a human.

[Ueauvan]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

i play off line coach mode, there is a massive difference

[edgevoice]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I haven't had that experience at all, based on either my user QB or CPU opponents. During the preseason, my back up QB, to quote John Madden himself, couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. The higher-tiered CPU QB's are a tremendous challenge for me to stop, while average QB's are much easier to defend and require far less scheming and risk-taking.

I am playing on All Pro with user defeated sliders of 140 points, plus I give the CPU a 10 point run blocking boost. Skill levels are represented rather well across the board, even with X Factor turned off. While gameplay is far from perfect, my experience this year is that ratings across the board matter more than I've ever experienced before. Just my take.

[Kid OS]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I know that whenever I played with the Jets on All-Pro Comp against a human friend, Davis Webb was the best QB of all time. QB Overalls don't matter for user QB's unless you adjust the sliders/use a gameplay mod on PC. Whenever I start my realistic CFM, I plan on lowering the pass sliders for both myself and the CPU, so hopefully that will give me more of a "ratings matter" effect.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I think the biggest difference between elite QBs and the rest is more in their decision making, which, in a video game, is irrelevant because the user is controlling the QB.

There are a few problems with this statement:

1. This largely applies to every position....a skilled user is capable of compensating (to some extent) for the difference between an elite non-QB and everybody else. That's a function of the video game medium. I say "to some extent" because the speed difference between Tyreek Hill and every other WR is more relevant to their position...you "feel" it more during play.

That's largely because...

2. Decision-making is the biggest piece of what distinguishes an elite QB from everybody else. There have been QBs with arms as big as (or nearly as big as) Mahomes in the NFL before. What they haven't had was Mahomes' early-career superiority in terms of mental processing and decision-making...most of them made such horrible decisions that they didn't last long enough to develop those skills.

I mean...anybody remember Ryan Leaf?

3. It's also not irrelevant, because half the time (sometimes much less), a user isn't controlling the QB.

Leave aside the CPU v. CPU and Coach Mode crowds, which are a small portion of the community, but are also probably bigger than you might realize. How the opposing QB plays in a User v. CPU setting is a major part of the experience for a lot of gamers, and in those cases, decision making is probably the most relevant difference to emphasize. As a matter of fact, take a look through these forums and see how many complaints there have been over "Robo QBs" over the years...I submit that EA still hasn't gone far enough in differentiating between elite and non-elite QB decision making.

I understand where you're going with this....the downgrade from Mahomes to Mullens didn't feel impactful enough to you. I can appreciate the sentiment and the desire for that downgrade to feel more relevant.

But I think you already identified the cause...the ability of a user to compensate for the talent drop...and I think you're underestimating the relevance of decision making. Adding a bigger feeling of disparity based on other attributes could easily have larger impacts on the overall feel of the game than you realize.

[stinkubus]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

Another point to add: many of the QB abilities require user play/user decisions to activate.

The AI doesn't use bootlegs - they would be way too easy to sack - so anyone with Roaming or Dashing Dead-eye just lost an ability.

I've never really seen the AI take advantage of pass leading, so those abilities are also rendered moot. They are *extremely* powerful

Brady's Hot Route Master and Conductor are also useless to the AI since it doesn't hot route.

[kennylc321]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I have a diffent experience. I was playing with the Eagles. Carson Wentz got injured and I had to roll with Cody Kessler. Holy cow... Kessler was aweful. He could not hit a moving target. The only passes I could complete were stuff like curl patterns where the receiver runs a route then settles down.

But crossing patterns and stuff like that... horrible.

[eco]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

Yes, i hope that ea see this tread because work in qb ai can be better and this can be done throught a patch. jared goff dak preskot play better than a x factor qb. Ai of my x factor qb play very bad

[jmarcguy]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I’ve been playing with Cam Newton & Andy Dalton and I can tell the difference in arms strength. Cam definitely gets the call out with more force while Dalton has less zip. They definitely need to work on differentiation more though.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[metallidevils]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

I have a diffent experience. I was playing with the Eagles. Carson Wentz got injured and I had to roll with Cody Kessler. Holy cow... Kessler was aweful. He could not hit a moving target. The only passes I could complete were stuff like curl patterns where the receiver runs a route then settles down.

But crossing patterns and stuff like that... horrible.

You’re right, I should have stated that accuracy is still hugely important. However, as others have stated more gracefully, it’s the decision making/awareness that I’m not seeing a separation in, because in controlling the QB I personally am having more impact than any player attribute

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Madden 20 does a great job of differentiating skill players, except at QB

The vision cone fixed this

I really wish they didnt backtrack on this feature. It was innovative and probably one of the most realistic features ever in Madden