This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

[Good Grappler]

Nevermind

I’m the goat

[Good Grappler]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

And to be fair, I just got smoked in this match. It was the most one sided loss I’ve ever experienced on this game, so I felt like it was pretty cool. Definitely one of the more interesting and memorable matches I’ve had playing MMA games. This match actually happened 2 months ago.

I felt like it was worth posting, because anyone who’s played or knows anything about me will be able to appreciate what happened in this match.

It wasn’t just a fluke, storm me out the gate KO. He completely shut me down and picked me apart - had me feeling like a complete amateur. By the time I was 2 minutes into the match, I felt like I was playing the worst game of my life. My striking felt sloppy, my clinches felt rushed. I attribute this to how well he played.

Good players have a way of making you feel like you had a bad game. Just like how good fighters make their opponents look like they had an off night (Israel vs Rob, Colby vs Lawler, etc).

But I still felt like, regardless of how one sided this fight was, the fact that he denied EVERY SINGLE grapple entry was worthy of note, and worthy of posting here. No matter how good someone is, I don’t think this should be possible.

But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe he’s just that good, and it should be possible to do this if you’re good enough. Or maybe it’s a sign that anti wrestling is unrealistic on this game. Not sure. I’ll let you guys decide.

[1212headkick]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

You didnt go for any hit reaction takedowns or clinches. Also swaying to your rear side and countering is a great way to get it. Clinch attempts should chain faster off td feints. You didnt intercept him at all.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

I'm

<iframe frameborder=0 webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen scale="tofit" width="640" height="365" style="max-width:100%" src="https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/the-relaxed-guy/video/79914767/embed"></iframe>


I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that this type of thing looks unrealistic, feels unrealistic, and shouldn’t be possible.

This guy (currently ranked #1) literally stopped every takedown and clinch attempt. Like I didn’t even get one.

I’m not saying “I’m so good, if I couldn’t grab him, no one could”. But I mean... damn. I did about everything one can do to force this into a wrestling match. And every single clinch attempt and takedown attempt was shrugged off with ease.

I can see someone having good anti-wrestling. I can see having quick reflexes on their sprawl, or being good at shutting down my trips in the clinch. But to completely shut down every grappling attempt at the entry level, before it even gets started? Looks a bit ridiculous. This is what’s wrong with a reaction-based, single input anti-wrestling system.

Stephen Thompson looked like Steven Segal stopping my clinches time and time again with a magical little flick of the wrist. Imagine if an actual fight went like this. Stephen Thompson would be all over the news the next morning. Wrestling schools around the country would go out of business.

The takedown feint clinch is something Pryoxis started, and that only works if the guy falls for it, so it's not amazingly difficult to deny the clinch after a TD feint.

The lower stamina you have the harder it is to grapple is one thing. Also, when he's blocking that's more GA for him UNLESS it's a strike that shocks the block, landing strikes makes it a lot easier or slipping/ducking strikes chained with clinches make it sooooo much easier too.

Adding to that, you can also chain your strikes with your clinch attempts, which I saw that you tried to do, but some strikes flow better for clinch attempts.

FYI, Thompson did stop an NCAA All-American/Champs TDs so there's that.

[NEWSS]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

I hope grappling will improve drastically in the next game but I don't think being shut down by n.1 in the world should be taken as a proof there's something wrong with the game...

[johnmangala]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

It definitely feels like kickboxing is the meta of this game and grappling is an afterthought, especially the clinch.

I feel UFC 4 will rectify that and well have a more balanced meta.

[xtremeba1000]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

I need to get on this guys level. I get killed by people who spam takedowns and clinching

[niebs79]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

that was also a pretty savage ending

[Haz____]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

The idea of Wonderboy throwing 110+ strikes per -3 minute accelerated- round is just pure insanity to me. The pace of action in this game is beyond unrealistic.

[WarMMA]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

I hope EA makes the grappling deeper in the next game. I really wanna see a chain wrestling system.

[Haz____]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

The idea of Wonderboy throwing 110+ strikes per -3 minute accelerated- round is just pure insanity to me. The pace of action in this game is beyond unrealistic.

Just for fun I went and checked out Wonderboys actual fight stats on...

http://ufcstats.com/fighter-details/4a28cb716c19157a

Here's what we are looking at...

Wonderboys career average strikes landed per minute is 3.5. Yup. Just 3.5.



Now lets go through each individual fight.



Against-

-Pettis
KO 4:55 of round 2. Total fight time 9:55 minutes.
47 strikes landed of 107 thrown.

-Till
5 rounds. Total fight time 25 minutes.
31 strikes landed of 127 thrown.

-Masvidal
3 rounds. Total fight time 15 minutes.
70 strikes landed of 156 thrown.

-Woodley 2
5 rounds. Total fight time 25 minutes.
66 strikes landes of 159 thrown.

-Woodley 1
5 rounds. Total fight time 25 minutes.
60 strikes landed of 181 thrown.

-Hendricks
KO at 3:31 of round 1.
25 strikes landed of 47 thrown.

-Cote
KO at 4:29 of round 1.
29 strikes landed of 47 thrown.





So im not a math guy but just by looking at those numbers it's plain as day UFC 3 striking output is just completely absurd compared to reality.

The Hendricks fight is a good example, ended in around 3 minutes, which is an accelerated round in UFC 3, and Hendricks offeres up basically ZERO resistance and was a human punching bag. Thompson STILL only threw 47 strikes in those 3 minutes.

The striking output in this game is objectively crazy.

[Haz____]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

Alberto, if you could take 5 minutes to explain to me what's wrong about that data I would appreciate it. I'm not even trying to be a jerk, or combative.

All I did is copy and paste his stats from the data, with the caveat that Im not a math guy, and that I'm just posting a quick observation of the stats.

[Papadoc60]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

Just for fun I went and checked out Wonderboys actual fight stats on...

http://ufcstats.com/fighter-details/4a28cb716c19157a

Here's what we are looking at...

Wonderboys career average strikes landed per minute is 3.5. Yup. Just 3.5.



Now lets go through each individual fight.



Against-

-Pettis
KO 4:55 of round 2. Total fight time 9:55 minutes.
47 strikes landed of 107 thrown.

-Till
5 rounds. Total fight time 25 minutes.
31 strikes landed of 127 thrown.

-Masvidal
3 rounds. Total fight time 15 minutes.
70 strikes landed of 156 thrown.

-Woodley 2
5 rounds. Total fight time 25 minutes.
66 strikes landes of 159 thrown.

-Woodley 1
5 rounds. Total fight time 25 minutes.
60 strikes landed of 181 thrown.

-Hendricks
KO at 3:31 of round 1.
25 strikes landed of 47 thrown.

-Cote
KO at 4:29 of round 1.
29 strikes landed of 47 thrown.





So im not a math guy but just by looking at those numbers it's plain as day UFC 3 striking output is just completely absurd compared to reality.

The Hendricks fight is a good example, ended in around 3 minutes, which is an accelerated round in UFC 3, and Hendricks offeres up basically ZERO resistance and was a human punching bag. Thompson STILL only threw 47 strikes in those 3 minutes.

The striking output in this game is objectively crazy.

Most people fight the same in this game and use a style that's heavy pressure with block breaking. Tons of jabs just to touch the block and make people react. If you look at the striking meta it's pretty clear that a lot of volume is the best way to make your opponent open up and make mistakes.

The striking output is not going be realistic with these things considered. If you wait until you have full stamina before each combo, you will generally be able to throw without worrying about gassing.

I think the jab feint - body straight combo is another big reason the strike totals are so high. It makes it so easy to chase your opponent and get right back into a chest to chest striking range while also countering straight punches and draining a lot of stamina.

I don't think the way the game does it right now is "bad". It's not realistic, but I wouldn't cross my fingers if that's what you are looking for in a UFC game. UFC 3 clearly emulates MMA but lends itself to being a bit arcadey due to how hard it is to manage customer expectations for a sports game. I would expect this to be par for the course in the future.

Just look at UFC 3's update cycle. At the beginning we had double legs that could shoot from an insane distance and it was abusable. EA's response to everyone whining was to make grappling obsolete for the next 3-4 updates.

Remember when one rock depleted over a third of someone's stamina? That **** got stopped real quick.

EA has to manage customer expectations constantly and they're doing so for a large amount of people that are not represented at all on forums, reddit, or anything.

[MartialMind]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

MMA fighters overall are much much better at stopping Takedowns now in the middle of the cage. This is why some of the best grapplers in MMA now are cage wrestlers.

That said.... As you mentioned, it SHOULD be IMPOSSIBLE to completely avoid all grappling in an MMA game, regardless of how good you are... if you're facing another competent player. It shouldn't be a thing. Especially with the clinch.

A fighter might be absolutely insanely difficult to get down or hold on to, like Jose Aldo, but even Aldo doesn't just get to not grapple at all.

The key is a clinch system that is very very very easy to get into and also very very easy to escape. Clinching is an integral part of combat, all combat, it's not something you can just avoid. Even boxers end up in the clinch while throwing just hands.

Overall, this is going to be improved. I'm confident on that. I just wanted to echo your point and agree with you. No, being able to avoid all grappling should not be a thing no matter how elite a player is. Shouldn't be possible.

Edit:

I mostly strike, but when i do wanna get a fight to the ground in this game, what I do is just cycle through all the possible ways we have available to get a Takedown and eventually, i tend to get it. We just have to remember them.

Very recently, I faced a Paulo Costa with Demian Maia. (I'm gonna post this fight soon). I HAD to get him down.

First thing i tried was the cage Takedown. Once he denied the first attempt, I stopped that to not gas myself. Then i tried getting him in the clinch... he denied that. Then I tried a hit reaction Takedown by slipping his strike, countering and then shooting.... he used the absolutely overpowered Takedown counter to stop that. I didn't even bother with the low single cos he would've denied that too.

Next and last hope was the undeniable Takedown. He threw a lunging leg kick, I shot a double and put him on his back. From there, my goal was to hold him down for dear life and gas him out enough to where I could deal with his barrage of combos when we inevitably get back to striking and I succeeded with the good old side control knees.

My point is... yes i agree with you 100% but you gotta try and use ALL the different methods available to you, as opposed to going back to one over and over and over again and end up gassing yourself early.

[aholbert32]

Re: This guy denied every clinch attempt and every takedown attempt

Alberto, if you could take 5 minutes to explain to me what's wrong about that data I would appreciate it. I'm not even trying to be a jerk, or combative.

All I did is copy and paste his stats from the data, with the caveat that Im not a math guy, and that I'm just posting a quick observation of the stats.

The point you are making is correct....UFC 3's striking output is unrealistic. I completely agree with that and have presented that argument to the devs in the past.

The example you are using to support your argument doesnt work though. You are comparing an online player using Wonderboy and Wonderboy's real life stats and concluding that because the online player was able to throw more strikes than Wonderboy typically averages that means strike output is bad.

The problem with that analysis is that Wonderboy only averages 17 landed strikes a round because of his style...not because he cant land more. Wonderboy has a very specific style that is methodical, movement heavy, blitz heavy and counter punch based. If he chose to throw 80, 90...100 strikes a round, he could and not completely gas out. He just chooses not to similar to Machida.

All Pry is doing is taking Wonderboy and using a style and pace that the real life Wonderboy doesnt use.

If this was AI Wonderboy (who on Pro level is supposed to replicate the real life fighters style) and he was throwing 100 strikes a round...that would be a problem. Now if your argument is "Players should be forced to use the real life style that a fighter uses to be successful", my question is how do you do that?

Wonderboy has never shown a real issue with gassing so giving him a low stamina rating wouldnt be realistic. How should the game force Pry to have to use Wonderboy in a way consistent with his real life style?