Played the #1 guy in PNO...

[Kushmir]

My game against the #1 player in PS4 PNO wasn't unlike any game i've played against an elite opponent. Now I don't always record the matches, but in this instance I wanted to drive home the points I often make about bad game mechanics and loopholes in gameplay. Was he good? FOR SURE. But the bigger issue was that he knew and spammed every gameplay loophole--which made our matchup less a game of skill and more one of my-exploit-is-better-than-yours.

Read the rest here: http://spgmg.blogspot.com/2019/10/el...am96.html#more

[Optimus James]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

A couple things 2k needs to do is bring back on-ball % and introduce the ability to rate a players playstyle so the cheesers can be red marked accordingly.

[Kushmir]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

A couple things 2k needs to do is bring back on-ball % and introduce the ability to rate a players play-style so the cheesers can be red marked accordingly.

Rank is fine (a real one--what they have now doesn't reflect player skill) Neither of those tell us who the cheesers are....too often people will give someone a bad rating because they lost.

[splashmountain]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

My game against the #1 player in PS4 PNO wasn't unlike any game i've played against an elite opponent. Now I don't always record the matches, but in this instance I wanted to drive home the points I often make about bad game mechanics and loopholes in gameplay. Was he good? FOR SURE. But the bigger issue was that he knew and spammed every gameplay loophole--which made our matchup less a game of skill and more one of my-exploit-is-better-than-yours.

Read the rest here: http://spgmg.blogspot.com/2019/10/el...am96.html#more

I've been preaching this same sermon for years now. 2k has become a game of who knows the most exploits and who can abuse them the best. its a lot less about BASKETBALL strategy. because great hoop strategy does not get the results it should. exploit abuse is what wins more times than not. and every year 2k makes it harder and harder to use great hoop strategy to defeat exploit abuse. This is all due to 2k wanting to control things. Meaning the way the game is coded for things to happen is always setup as something 2k controls to a point.

They dont want to make the ball free and open to be tipped or stolen when a defenders hand/body is in the passing lane. But if you get that passing lane badge boosted. you will still passes that are not even in your lane. it will make the ball curve towards you for your steal. this is because 2k wants to emphasize fast breaks. This is the same for the insane rebounding abilities and how people especially bigs blow layups if a defender is close by. They want small guys running up and down the court and shooting 3's. they do not want people setting up half court solid offenses. no matter what you think about the plays you can run. at most they want you to run plays for shooters and slashers. not for bigs. which is weird and unrealistic. but its the game we have today.

[splashmountain]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

A couple things 2k needs to do is bring back on-ball % and introduce the ability to rate a players playstyle so the cheesers can be red marked accordingly.

This will never happen. Reason being, what makes us think 2k doesnt like cheese/cheesers?

They code things into the game to make them more cheese friendly.


They have an entire league where all of the cheese is exposed. They have 2k TV where they have a portion of it dedicated to highlights where half of those lights are made from cheese.

So ask yourself again. why would 2k want to expose cheesers?

every single time i see a Professional NBA 2k league player thats a big man. he/she always has the cheese build and the most OP build to have in the game. its been that way since the leagues inception. I even asked one of them why he chose that build and he could not clearly explain why. when i said is it because you found out how OP the build is? he of course would not admit to that.

There was a time when i thought the game was attempting to go the sim route and i was upset with cheesers ruining the sim factor. Now i realize it was never them. they just play to win. not to have fun or compete. i play to compete and have fun. because i know, understand basketball, and which controller moves do what. I will end up winning more than I lose.

So who's fault is it? This one is on the Devs & the producers. More the producers than the devs. Because they set the directions of the game. Someone up top said to keep the kids and 2k lifers happy, we need to keep a lot of cheese in the game. to help on board new gamers to 2k we need to put in a lot of 2k helpers(badges).

- since when given the choice most of these players choose small players and perimeter guys. lets make sure to make the small guys finish well from outside and inside.
Since we know all of these lifers and kids want to dribble the ball to death. make sure the dribbling looks fun and isnt too realistic.

Make sure the above matches up with our 2k VC model. So we can increase VC purchases while making these gamers happy.

But what about sim nation? Give them some new playbooks, give them some AI player tweaks to make the AI a bit smarter. Annnnd thats about it for those guys. those guys make up approx. 15% of our user base. Remember guys, these players have no other place to go. Nba live is not there yet.

Dont worry, we will not die off like live did because unlike back then nba live actually had us and other companies as competition. We dont have any actual competition. You add in social media and how the social media guys/ladies have grown up on 2k and know nothing else. on top of the fact we can pay them or fly them out to places for free. They will keep speaking positively about our game.

[Zeke11]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

A simple solution to this would be for 2K to implement a sim or ‘hardcore’ mode if you will. I remember being able to switch from arcade to simulation in gameplay settings. Something like that would be great for pno

[ILLSmak]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

Well played, but you shoulda won. Has to suck to have him right where you want him then throw away that pass. That was basically the game, altho taking the 2 when you could have might have been worth, you had like 6+ sec at that point (after the score), and there wasn't any look for 3 at all.


You'd probably have more of a shot w/ fouling him and chucking a long pass and firing a 3, at least someone would be feet set behind the line.


Edit: I had 88% or something on ball% backwhen. wahaha. I remember getting smushed by a girl I knew. And I was like man you just played off ball all gm with tmac, she didn't seem to realize how much that matters. But whatever.



I'd rather get roasted 100 times than jump off ball because at least eventually you'd think I'd learn.




-Smak

[Kushmir]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

Well played, but you shoulda won. Has to suck to have him right where you want him then throw away that pass. That was basically the game.

The problem was the GD play-call bug....AGAIN. It happens at the WORST possible times. It threw me out of wack--I can't lie, I was FURIOUS. I didn't really get my bearings back until my last defensive possession.

Naw too many core parts of the game are broken to expect people to play on-ball D exclusively. First it was Overhelp, then rollers were going uncovered, now Bigs don't help? That's really where i'm about to start playing since our bigs will literally sit there and watch guys play 1-on-1. Too much of the game is STILL mitigating AI mistakes.

Those two turnovers hurt BAD, but just as big is the fact the game still won't call the obvious fouls. Its why I did THIS at the end of a game in 2K17 to prove a point--I knew I could spam with zero fear of a whistle:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UPu2goEHlQA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[olajuwon34]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

Spacing is still messed up on the double teams, why when the defense collapses on the post player with the ball, do all the offensive players stand 10 feet behind the line? none of them want to be in position to shoot a catch and shoot 3 pointer right on the line, they also run around to unnecessary spots when there already open 1 pass away

[splashmountain]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

A simple solution to this would be for 2K to implement a sim or ‘hardcore’ mode if you will. I remember being able to switch from arcade to simulation in gameplay settings. Something like that would be great for pno

I asked for this years ago. speaking directly to a Dev. and i never received an answer back.

it makes no sense to make us sim guys have to be stuck playing nba jams with these lifers. it does have a lot to do with sliders as well. The only time 2k was close to a sim style. or some what close was when the First 2k Combine opened. That showed their hand.

everyone was mad as hell that they didnt even allow for a Pure play maker in the game. why not? because back then that build was super OP cheese. everyone knew if you had that arc and a few badges, you couldnt be ripped. you could dribble forever without getting tired. and that arc back then could shoot 3's. and gave people that bogus freeze animation or fall slip animation with ankle breaker on gold. no matter if you went for the dribble move or not.

2k knew this and they made sure they didnt allow combine soon to be drafted nba 2k leaguers, to use this build. that showed me that they know whats ridiculous. and they just let it go anyway most times.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

My game against the #1 player in PS4 PNO wasn't unlike any game i've played against an elite opponent. Now I don't always record the matches, but in this instance I wanted to drive home the points I often make about bad game mechanics and loopholes in gameplay. Was he good? FOR SURE. But the bigger issue was that he knew and spammed every gameplay loophole--which made our matchup less a game of skill and more one of my-exploit-is-better-than-yours.

Read the rest here: http://spgmg.blogspot.com/2019/10/el...am96.html#more

You make some great points here....an experience like this is the result of a game design slanted towards casual fans who think your typical NBA game is a 48 minute long ESPN highlight reel rather than students of the game of basketball.In short, there is too much weight place upon general video gaming skills and not enough on an emulation of basketball skills and knowledge.

The online culture they have built is also somewhat to blame....When you have rank,leaderboards,stats,etc. involved, it encourages the cheese style play and stat padding so people can brag about their record.

This is made worse by the relative anonymity of the internet, which allows players to basically avoid most of the consequences one may have to deal with when actually sitting on the couch next to the person they are playing against.The kind of play evident in those clips is why we used to have house rules about certain aspects of gameplay as well as team selection back in the days of local multiplayer....unfortunately that is not even an option in PNO unless you happen to be friends with the other guy.

[ecworldwide]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

First of all kushmire great post from top to bottom. I think a major problem is the patching of the initial basketball product that we had on launch day. From speed to shooting and everything in between. I know big czar and og scottogallger character but, i feel like that with my park which is their top mode statistically they are fighting a losing battle. Basically they are being overshadowed by upper management within the company that want to please the casuals.

[Kushmir]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

First of all kushmire great post from top to bottom. I think a major problem is the patching of the initial basketball product that we had on launch day. From speed to shooting and everything in between. I know big czar and og scottogallger character but, i feel like that with my park which is their top mode statistically they are fighting a losing battle. Basically they are being overshadowed by upper management within the company that want to please the casuals.

Thanks. The patching was necessary tho...sooo many parts of the game weren't working right. Look at the sheer amounts of blue screens and disconnections and characters not saving. I think they overdid speed as well. I hear you about Park--IMO each mode can offer a different experience tho...that's really the key.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

The problem was the GD play-call bug....AGAIN. It happens at the WORST possible times. It threw me out of wack--I can't lie, I was FURIOUS. I didn't really get my bearings back until my last defensive possession.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UPu2goEHlQA" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Yea I was furious for you. Such a garbage play. I keep watching it and trying to figure out what was supposed to happen. haha.



I am trying to think of what your option was other than holding the ball longer/resetting. I dunno if people jump in front of passers when they aren't sealed, if they didn't maybe Embiid would have been a good look. There was nothing going on the left and dude was camping the right. Al was open for a sec but that might have been a steal, too.


Still sucks cuz like I said you played well and were locking him down on the previous possession.


-Smak

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Played the #1 guy in PNO...

Very unfortunate that the bug happened at such a crucial moment.

I think one thing y’all gotta keep in mind is that ranked has never been and never will be about sim play.

It’s about being the best at winning games in 2k and will always involves exploits or “cheese”.

Expecting anything else will leave you disappointed.

There are sliders for a reason and the ability to edit ratings to offer a realistic experience.

Default ratings/sliders aren’t close to a real life experience.

Good overall post but trying to get them to change how ranked works isnt going to get you anywhere. The majority of players prefer a more arcadey style.