keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

[UFCBlackbelt]

Higher ranked fighters don't really tend to have better chins than lower ranked fighters. They may be faster, block better and have better footwork/head movement, but I would like to see in EA UFC 4 that the chin/body/leg ratios be pretty standard for newer fighters (Rather than being in the 85s-87 range) . Give them 90s and match with the top fighters (for the most part). Chins/Body Health/ Leg Health aren't so much a skill as they are body composition. Block/head movement/footwork are skills that help avoid damage.

They should only really be adjusted for fighters who have proven chins/ or took bad kos.

Generally speaking, newer fighters tend to have better health since they have not endured as much damage. I feel this would really encourage the use of lower ranked fighters

The other attributes make sense (unlikely that a fighter with no 5 rd experience will have more stamina than a tested champion, they also tend to not have the same skill levels at that level)

For example, I don't see any reason to give bryce mitchell or daniel henry any worse of a chin than jose, yair or edgar. At least not at this point in their careers.

[aholbert32]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

Higher ranked fighters don't really tend to have better chins than lower ranked fighters. They may be faster, block better and have better footwork/head movement, but I would like to see in EA UFC 4 that the chin/body/leg ratios be pretty standard for newer fighters (Rather than being in the 85s-87 range) . Give them 90s and match with the top fighters (for the most part). Chins/Body Health/ Leg Health aren't so much a skill as they are body composition. Block/head movement/footwork are skills that help avoid damage.

They should only really be adjusted for fighters who have proven chins/ or took bad kos.

Generally speaking, newer fighters tend to have better health since they have not endured as much damage. I feel this would really encourage the use of lower ranked fighters

The other attributes make sense (unlikely that a fighter with no 5 rd experience will have more stamina than a tested champion, they also tend to not have the same skill levels at that level)

For example, I don't see any reason to not give bryce mitchell or daniel henry any worse of a chin than jose, yair or edgar. At least not at this point in their careers.

This isnt a really a spoiler for UFC 4 because its something the team has been looking into since before we stopped updating the stats. The chin stat range was one of the biggest mistakes we made in UFC 3. I have a feeling that the health stats will be much closer than they were in UFC3.

There will still be a difference but I think the range will be much smaller.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

Also think about other areas for which this may apply, not just the chin. If they're good/average/bad at anything, let the stats reflect it.

[aholbert32]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

Also think about other areas for which this may apply, not just the chin. If they're good/average/bad at anything, let the stats reflect it.

We are considering but "chin" is the only one I can speak on because we started that process with UFC3 and I've spoken about it publicly.

Understand that this is just my thought process. If for some reason, the devs disagree that could mean that the gap remains. With that said, they had no issues with us closing the gap with UFC 3 updates so I hope that it will continue.

[That Ragdoll Guy]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

Every human has pressure points on his body. KO points. When you hit somebody on one of those spots he will either be in severe pain or his lights will shut down immediately.



Ngannou hits those spots with huge power. He is not just powerful as a striker he also is very accurate and fast for a heavyweight. The only reason why He didnt drop Miocic, is because he wasnt himself on that day. He hit Miocic, but he didnt hit him on the right spot. Miocic took half a dozen power shots by Ngannou, but remained relatively unfazed by them. Giving a fighter a great chin doesnt or shouldnt protect him from a great flash knockout.

What we could do is make striking more realistic by reworking the hit detection. Implementing pressure points that result in flash knockouts or big health events. There are way too many health events in UFC 3 cause the shots never miss the target in close range.

The hit detection is one of my most hated things in UFC 3. It feels really magnetic and doesnt feel realistic at all. Hit detection in UFC 2 was better, because not every combo was right on the target, you sometimes missed a shot in an exchange.... And that was a good thing in a striking exchange. It brought a little bit more chaos into the game... If you know what I mean.



This is not possible in UFC 3. The hit detection would have made one of the two drop after the 3rd strike.

[MichaelKnight21]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

^Citation needed.

[Papadoc60]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

Totally agree, a body or chin stat below 88 is a death sentence

[Reinfarcements]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

Oddly enough I was just thinking about chin stats myself a few days ago.

An idea popped in my head that maybe chin should be handled not as a stat but as a perk. So everyone starts the same but guys like Mark Hunt and the Diaz brothers would get a perk called "Iron Chin" that lets them take more punishment. Then guys who have been going out a lot get a negative perk called "Wear and Tear" or something and can't take quite as much damage.

But honestly the negative perk probably isn't even necessary. As long as dudes who fight like terminators get something in-game to represent that, I'm good.

[MichaelKnight21]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

I honestly just assumed this was UFC mandated star boosting.

I don't buy for a second the devs actually thought that McGregor has 98?!?!?!?!?! leg health at LW when he busted his own legs kicking Nate Diaz.

Like literally in the FW division its often a better strategy to kick Aldo's legs as McG than vice-versa. Juiced up leg health + switch stance + power + leg reach >>> Aldo's leg kick perk and 93 health. Yes, I know Romero can always kick my legs and I can't do anything about it but on balance this is how I see this dynamic play out.

In light of this, I would honestly not mind one of two things

1. hidden nerfs, basically straight up fugazi stats to appease the overlords

or more realistically

2. Logarithmic statistics. Ie, the difference between 90-93 is about equal to the difference between 93-100. Then, if you still want to make an element of a character stand out in particular, make PERKS affect statistical values linearly while keeping base statistics logarithmic. That, and you can make more elaborate statistical effects of certain movesets, IE give Ngannou a 'power uppercut' with an enhanced damage profile.

[aholbert32]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

I honestly just assumed this was UFC mandated star boosting.

I don't buy for a second the devs actually thought that McGregor has 98?!?!?!?!?! leg health at LW when he busted his own legs kicking Nate Diaz.

Like literally in the FW division its often a better strategy to kick Aldo's legs as McG than vice-versa. Juiced up leg health + switch stance + power + leg reach >>> Aldo's leg kick perk and 93 health. Yes, I know Romero can always kick my legs and I can't do anything about it but on balance this is how I see this dynamic play out.
.

Multiple reasons go into certain stats. We try to be as realistic as possible but we have to balance UFC approval and online balance when considering stats. Sometimes the numbers are just flat out wrong or mistakenly incorrect. Sometimes you dont understand how the stats will effect the ratings (with chin stats, I definitely did not think that an 85 chin would make someone unplayable before release and boy was I wrong).

When you have over 7,000 individual stats in the game, those sorts of things happen.

[Good Grappler]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

And not only do newer fighters need attention in this regard. Higher level fighters do too.

Just because a fighter is more famous or highly ranked, does not mean their health stats should be so ridiculously high. Conor McGregor comes to mind - a 95 for health at LW? Sheesh.

Part of the reason for this is that the UFC dictates fighters overall stats. And so EA, in order to meet this criteria, needs to fill in the numbers where they can - which can result in massive dumps in random areas, such as Conor’s health stats.

I think this is super stupid, especially since the UFC’s decisions on fighter stats are entirely based upon fighter popularity and ranking. It should be based entirely upon performances, and the level of competition they have faced.

I would rather Alberto decide all the rankings himself, than some UFC marketing guy.

[aholbert32]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

And not only do newer fighters need attention in this regard. Higher level fighters do too.

Just because a fighter is more famous or highly ranked, does not mean their health stats should be so ridiculously high. Conor McGregor comes to mind - a 95 for health at LW? Sheesh.

Part of the reason for this is that the UFC dictates fighters overall stats. And so EA, in order to meet this criteria, needs to fill in the numbers where they can - which can result in massive dumps in random areas, such as Conor’s health stats.

I think this is super stupid, especially since the UFC’s decisions on fighter stats are entirely based upon fighter popularity and ranking. It should be based entirely upon performances, and the level of competition they have faced.

I would rather Alberto decide all the rankings himself, than some UFC marketing guy.

I agree but a couple of things: The UFC is involved in stat making but they werent that heavy handed with UFC 3. There were some fighters where they disagreed but many of them they were fine with.

Lets talk about Conor. Keep in mind, the only time he's been rocked (before the Khabib fight) was at WW against Diaz twice when we did his stats. We had a bunch of FW fights where he was never hurt (Mendes did damage but Conor suffered more from fatigue than anything in that fight) and walked through Eddie A. in his one LW fight.

So I think its justifiable to have Conor with a good chin. So if thats the case where do you put him. As I said before, I think the biggest mistake we made with stats was not truly understanding how the range was actually play out. If the range is 80-100, you expect someone with a 90 chin to be slightly above average. I'd argue at the time thats Conor's chin was more than just "slightly above average" so that putting him in the 94-96 range makes sense.

We didnt know at the time that the real range was completely different. That giving someone a 95 or above made them otherworldly and a 87 or below made them chinny.

If its my call, I'm more worried about the guys on the lower end. I'm more focused on bringing them up a level. Conor has shown a bit of weakness in the chin since so maybe he gets a small drop but it shouldnt be huge.

With that said, I just suggest things so the devs may feel completely different.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

Conor can take a shot. Let's not forget he only got flash knockdowned by a hell of an overhand by Khabib that he didn't see coming at all. I'm not sure if Chin or Heart or Toughness addressess this though...damn those stat names that I don't know which one's which.

So I don't know if 95's right because for a 95 I think you need to have shown a consistent ability to eat shots like tictacs. Conor hasn't really been in that position, but he can take a shot for sure. 92-93 is not unwarranted. His leg health however is absolutely ridiculous. It's never been tested to any degree whatsoever and he has something like a 97 — what? Romero by the way could easily have 96-97 for head, body and legs, and actually should. The guy's made of titanium. Stamina is his kryptonite.

Oh, and yeah, please upload everyone's full stats somewhere for 4, plus what each stat means, so I don't have to turn on the console every time I feel like having a discussion.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: keeping health stats pretty even for newer fighters (rankings)

I think clear advantages and disadvantages for all fighters for all stats is a must. A bigger range is important for other stats.