Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

[capa]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

Wish I had a room where I could fully swing real golf clubs and 20K for the simulator

C

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

Wish I had a room where I could fully swing real golf clubs and 20K for the simulator

C

I do too Capa, but I'm also learning from those who are more experienced with launch simulators that Trackman doesn't do a great job with the short game and putting using indoor launch simulators. A lot of them say that Skytrack and CG2 do a much better job of capturing the intracacies of the short and putting game. Unfortunately, neither of them will be compatible with Virtual Golf 2, as that will be exclusively Trackman 4.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

Here's a link to a You Tube video of a Trackman 4/Virtual Golf 2 full round at Sweetens Cove. It's rendered smoothly in 1080p, although for the first time in the Virtual Golf 2 videos and images I've seen thus far, the difference isn't as obvious in this one. The 3D rough doesn't really show the advantages of Turf Effects, but it might be down to the late evening lighting used and the lack of a much light rough at this course. The panorama looks really nice as does the sky dome. The winds are pretty much still so there's nothing to see in terms of sashaying tree foliage in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gxJpqofpU

What impressed me most about this video is how quickly the ball's flight is depicted on the screen on full shots. There's almost no delay between the impact of the ball on the screen and the animation depicting the ball flight starting. This guy also gives us the first look at the "Broadcast Camera" perspective on the cut views, and I really liked it, although I'd prefer to have cut views that were more reverse than side angle. None the less, I strongly prefer the Broadcast view shown here to Follow Cam, which I shied away from in the early Tiger Woods PGA Tour series years.

Finally, I thought the putting looked pretty decent. The player in the video had some very believable results with his 10 to 20 foot putts he hit. There was a bout a two second delay between the putt strike and the ball rolling on the green, but the path an behavior looked consistent with the strike. It's just a shame that Virtual Golf 2 software is playing to such a small audience, when there are millions of gaming computers and consoles that could support it so well

[scagwi]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

It's just a shame that Virtual Golf 2 software is playing to such a small audience, when there are millions of gaming computers and consoles that could support it so well

It's a major bummer. I would pull out my VISA and pay for it right now if I could play it on PC with a controller.

It looks really great to me. A nice incremental update to PG1.

[ncp10]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

What impressed me most about this video is how quickly the ball's flight is depicted on the screen on full shots. (

That might have been technically challenging to do but quite frankly I thought the side view of the ball wasn't good--it was too far away to even be able to evaluate how good ball physics are modeled. I believe scagwi complained about ball physics in TGC2019 or TGC but we have found almost nothing odd about how ball physics are modeled in that TGC2019 save they did not model backspin effects well but that's not a major issue to improve on if they continue with the product at some point in the future. I also thought the ball itself in VG2 looked almost as unnatural as the ball does in WGT where the ball looks like it's been photoshopped on the turf and just doesn't quite look real. As for general terrain texture graphics they were very nice and quite photo-real w/ VG2.

Very fortunately for me and my playing partner we might shoot anywhere from +6 to -8 on very challenging courses, and there are so many in TGC2019 it's phenomenal the thoughtfulness and the quality of work so many have put in gratis for all to enjoy. The game clearly captures the idiosyncrasies of golf and brings out the identical psychological reactions we experience in real life golf. We find ourselves not exceptionally good at anything in particular but decent in all parts of the game so if you watched our matches on TV you wouldn't have a clue who was going to win the match. A few weeks ago we flip flipped being 3 up on the other guy twice each in 18h! It was a nail biter at the finish! I tell you I don't need any other golf software to be happy in virtual golf--it's all about the golf itself and the competition, and TGC2019 is ideal for our particular skill level such that outcomes are very comparable to tour player performance overall. Did you know in TGCTours Xbox users typically shoot 20 or more strokes worse than PS4 players in 72h events? PC players are in between. I'm glad we are Xbox users it keeps our scores in line with RL golf.

[scagwi]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

....we have found almost nothing odd about how ball physics are modeled in that TGC2019 save they did not model backspin effects well but that's not a major issue to improve on if they continue with the product at some point in the future.

A. "Not modeling backspin effects" is a big issue to some of us
B. "If (HB/TGC) continue" is a somewhat precarious "if" right now with the TGC series

Related to B: I'm pretty disappointed with their model that turned into "release, barely update/fix and quickly abandon"...which was all nearly a year ago now with nothing new in sight. Major bummer.

If they're working on something big for 2020/Scarlett/PS5 release window (which I hope they are), it needs to be a major evolution at this point. It's time to eschew some of the holdover roots, issues and niggles from all the way back in TGC1.

[ncp10]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

A. "Not modeling backspin effects" is a big issue to some of us
B. "If (HB/TGC) continue" is a somewhat precarious "if" right now with the TGC series

Related to B: I'm pretty disappointed with their model that turned into "release, barely update/fix and quickly abandon"...which was all nearly a year ago now with nothing new in sight. Major bummer.

If they're working on something big for 2020/Scarlett/PS5 release window (which I hope they are), it needs to be a major evolution at this point. It's time to eschew some of the holdover roots, issues and niggles from all the way back in TGC1.

Do you have the game and use it? If so, how about we play a friendly online H2H game and examine just how the game plays and behaves. You can feel free to point out exactly what isn't 'perfect' as we play if you have a headset. You seem to be focused exclusively on something other than playability, simulating believable scoring and shot outcomes, the quality of literally 100's of fabulous course designs and instead focus on 'niggles' and imperfect backspin effects, and lament the uncertainty about the game's future. You're clearly not seeing a massively effective forest for a few withered trees and this has always been your focus on any discussions here. I believe it is the type of focus you have that helps move developers in the direction of abandonment because...you will never be satisfied.

[scagwi]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

Do you have the game and use it? If so, how about we play a friendly online H2H game and examine just how the game plays and behaves.

I don't anymore, sorry.
I'm done with TGC until a new version surfaces, at which point I will for sure try it again.

[scagwi]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

You're clearly not seeing a massively effective forest for a few withered trees and this has always been your focus on any discussions here. I believe it is the type of focus you have that helps move developers in the direction of abandonment because...you will never be satisfied.

Who and what developers choose to listen to is up to them and I do hope it encompasses a wide swath of users.
(wider than both you and I honestly)


My opinion is as valid as yours.

We disagree. It's as simple as that.
There is no need to make disparaging assertions about me or my viewpoints.

[scagwi]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

@ncp10

Let's cut this out completely please.
This TGC back and forth is totally off topic in this particular thread.

(btw: I take co-responsibility for engaging about TGC stuff in here - wrong place for it - sorry to all)

[ncp10]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

@ncp10

Let's cut this out completely please.
This TGC back and forth is totally off topic in this particular thread.

(btw: I take co-responsibility for engaging about TGC stuff in here - wrong place for it - sorry to all)

We're in it for different reasons is all. I've only disparaged you because every positive thing I've said about TGC2019 was summarily dismissed or countered by you, so I've come to see you as automatically being antagonistic. I'll leave you be peace out.

[scagwi]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

We're in it for different reasons is all. I've only disparaged you because every positive thing I've said about TGC2019 was summarily dismissed or countered by you, so I've come to see you as automatically being antagonistic. I'll leave you be peace out.

The personal disparagement is all that I ask get cut out.
I am always happy to debate points of difference about the actual topic/game.

Hope we can agree on that at least.
Thank you

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

That might have been technically challenging to do but quite frankly I thought the side view of the ball wasn't good--it was too far away to even be able to evaluate how good ball physics are modeled.

I would have prefered a more reverse angle-ish side view, with maybe three or four camera height options. I also would have liked to have the option to cut to the side/reverse-angle view much later in the ball's flight/travel... like maybe 80%, instead of the more like 50% to which it defaults, of the time into its travel. That would at least speak to your observation about the angle provided not giving the player adequate feedback to evaluate the ball's physics. I still prefer it to follow camera, which for various reasons I've just never embraced over the years on any golf game.

I also thought the ball itself in VG2 looked almost as unnatural as the ball does in WGT where the ball looks like it's been photoshopped on the turf and just doesn't quite look real. As for general terrain texture graphics they were very nice and quite photo-real w/ VG2.

I noticed the photoshopped looking ball myself. I wonder how much of that could be remedied in a PC version where higher resolution, less blossomy display technology?

Very fortunately for me and my playing partner we might shoot anywhere from +6 to -8 on very challenging courses, and there are so many in TGC2019 it's phenomenal the thoughtfulness and the quality of work so many have put in gratis for all to enjoy. The game clearly captures the idiosyncrasies of golf and brings out the identical psychological reactions we experience in real life golf. We find ourselves not exceptionally good at anything in particular but decent in all parts of the game so if you watched our matches on TV you wouldn't have a clue who was going to win the match. A few weeks ago we flip flipped being 3 up on the other guy twice each in 18h! It was a nail biter at the finish! Did you know in TGCTours Xbox users typically shoot 20 or more strokes worse than PS4 players in 72h events? PC players are in between. I'm glad we are Xbox users it keeps our scores in line with RL golf.

My game has been in a steady decline since the my XBox Elite controller went belly up. My average score has increased 5 or 6 strokes per round, on average, as a result. I now shoot scores more in the range you describe above. I'm not competitive in the larger and official Society tournaments, but I still enjoy playing the game. The more realistic scores, FIRs, and GIRs help make up for not being as competitive.

I'm also hip to the advantage PS4 players have in TGC 2019, and I even experienced it for myself in TGC 2. It was much easier to track the vertical axis with the PS4 controller and I hear it's the same with TGC 2019. I have the PC version of TGC 2019, but I rarely play it. I would say that it is maybe slightly easier to score with than the XBox One version, but most of that would be down to the 60 FPS frame rates I get on my PC. That really helps with my short game touch.

I tell you I don't need any other golf software to be happy in virtual golf--it's all about the golf itself and the competition, and TGC2019 is ideal for our particular skill level such that outcomes are very comparable to tour player performance overall.

I don't need any other golf software to have fun playing virtual/cyber golf. I have fun playing TGC 2019 now, although I find my zeal for it has waned to where I now only play six or seven rounds a week. I played 15 to 20 rounds a week the first four or five months of the game's life. I think the game could be improved in a number of ways and I'd like to see HB Studios continue to have a go at it. If TGC 2019 modeled backspin better, scaled back the effect of the "dial-a-distance" lofting tool, and had higher resolution proportionality in the stick motion/shot power relationship, it would be so much more sensually immersive, IMO.

[ncp10]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

I played 15 to 20 rounds a week the first four or five months of the game's life. I think the game could be improved in a number of ways and I'd like to see HB Studios continue to have a go at it. If TGC 2019 modeled backspin better, scaled back the effect of the "dial-a-distance" lofting tool, and had higher resolution proportionality in the stick motion/shot power relationship, it would be so much more sensually immersive, IMO.

Holy C, 15-20 round/week fo 4-5 mo?! Now THAT is a testimony to just how good the game is, especially for coming from someone intimate w/ golf sims historically. It's no wonder why since there is so much right in the game despite its imperfections.

I don't find the same 'dial-a-distance' from the loft control. We still are off enough of the time to keep scores just right, and apparently it is for you too if you're scoring about like we do.

As I've said here I would love to see HBS continue the franchise but stay focused exclusively on refining the platform for the 'serious' player in competition in general. Every 4y release a new version. The animations are just okay--the number of fabulous swings available to model are out there all you need to do is go to a nice large practice range until you see someone modeling a truly good golf swing, offer up $500 for a 15 minute video session, and voila. You wouldn't even need to use tour players because great swings abound if you know what to look for. I would love to be able to buy a 5-pack of PGA tour animations done as well as was done in Rory but that might not be doable cost-wise. My ani's left arm breaks down terribly! The swing mechanic can be improved upon for sure though I've made peace with using tempo as a factor. Backspin effects easy peasy. Perhaps their next release gets Unity graphics if that is really an improvement. I say that because Rory's Frostbite 3 engine looked a little better than TGC2019 in some ways and far worse in other ways even at 4K than does TGC2019.

Would you be interested in joining our two private mini societies? We use no green grid but allow putting meter, we typically play each round of 2-4 round events live, together. You could join us in realtime play, or play solo as interested and able. We have one US and one Euro PGA tour and play 1-2 events per week. I've been in a serious slump for two weeks now my handicap went from +13.5 to +10.1. Could not make a putt until yesterday's back nine it was awful! Many missed shorter putts was +5 at Cypress Dunes (uber challenging, lovely course) on the front but finished w/ 5 birdies to finish even par. I was 10 shots back after round one and now and just 2 back going into the final round since my playing partner ran into lots of trouble especially on the greens. We vary conditions for each round. If you're perhaps interested I will check w/ my partner to see if he's up for company.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: Jack Nicklaus Perfect Golf Available Now on Steam, Soon For Consoles

Holy C, 15-20 round/week fo 4-5 mo?! Now THAT is a testimony to just how good the game is, especially for coming from someone intimate w/ golf sims historically. It's no wonder why since there is so much right in the game despite its imperfections.

I was in four Societies and was playing a round or two of online multiplayer daily. Now I'm playing full time in one Society, and occasionally play in the official Pro Society.

I don't find the same 'dial-a-distance' from the loft control. We still are off enough of the time to keep scores just right, and apparently it is for you too if you're scoring about like we do.

The dial-a-distance ability doesn't cover all the gaps between clubs, but it allows too many approach shots to be grip and rip, IMO. Where my scoring is off post XBox Elite controller is tempo control. I only get a perfect/perfect tempo maybe 50% of the time. A perfect/slow tempo leads to serious problems when you're lined up to play a short fade. Now you're long and have played a slice? I get that a lot now and many times it leads to double bogeys.

As I've said here I would love to see HBS continue the franchise but stay focused exclusively on refining the platform for the 'serious' player in competition in general. Every 4y release a new version. The animations are just okay--the number of fabulous swings available to model are out there all you need to do is go to a nice large practice range until you see someone modeling a truly good golf swing, offer up $500 for a 15 minute video session, and voila. You wouldn't even need to use tour players because great swings abound if you know what to look for. I would love to be able to buy a 5-pack of PGA tour animations done as well as was done in Rory but that might not be doable cost-wise. My ani's left arm breaks down terribly! The swing mechanic can be improved upon for sure though I've made peace with using tempo as a factor. Backspin effects easy peasy. Perhaps their next release gets Unity graphics if that is really an improvement. I say that because Rory's Frostbite 3 engine looked a little better than TGC2019 in some ways and far worse in other ways even at 4K than does TGC2019.

If HB Studios produces another TGC, I fully expect it to be done in Unity? I still think the additions and changes we want to the game can be done in Unity, with the recent advancements in Unity. Rory looked better in some ways to TGC 2019, but not enough to justify an engine change, IMO. Honestly, I'm more interesting in them getting 60 FPS performance out of it than RMPGAT caliber graphics.

Would you be interested in joining our two private mini societies? We use no green grid but allow putting meter, we typically play each round of 2-4 round events live, together. You could join us in realtime play, or play solo as interested and able. We have one US and one Euro PGA tour and play 1-2 events per week. I've been in a serious slump for two weeks now my handicap went from +13.5 to +10.1. Could not make a putt until yesterday's back nine it was awful! Many missed shorter putts was +5 at Cypress Dunes (uber challenging, lovely course) on the front but finished w/ 5 birdies to finish even par. I was 10 shots back after round one and now and just 2 back going into the final round since my playing partner ran into lots of trouble especially on the greens. We vary conditions for each round. If you're perhaps interested I will check w/ my partner to see if he's up for company.

I'm sort of embarrassed to admit that I'm too lazy and too impatient to play without green grids. Even when I to try it, I find that all too often I'm guessing at the direction of the break. I wish I could get into it because when you do have a good hole and an honest birdie, it is more rewarding. I just get too frustrated with it to play with gridless greens, short of an occasional experimental round.