DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

[Darth Aegis]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

I never want EA to take out the speed threshold slider EVER. I never want to leave this up to EA to decide this for the user. More options the better for the user.They already make everyone play on one speed this yr. I get both sides and agree with a lot of the points made inside this thread, but we need options & more of them.

[Hooe]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

Worth noting Tiburon removed the game speed options from Madden 20 and also standardized the speed threshold at 50 specifically to clean up animation issues.

Not to say that there are no longer issues, but they made a pass at the issue by doing exactly the opposite of what some in this thread are asking for, and they certainly know their game better than we do.

[Darth Aegis]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

Worth noting Tiburon removed the game speed options from Madden 20 and also standardized the speed threshold at 50 specifically to clean up animation issues.

Not to say that there are no longer issues, but they made a pass at the issue by doing exactly the opposite of what some in this thread are asking for, and they certainly know their game better than we do.

I watched the dev say they couldn't get things working correctly with different speeds so they were removed (don't know his name off hand). My guess the SA & RPO's had probably the most to do with it. Hopefully they can overcome their own obstacles for Madden 21.

[asantead22]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

No it does not make sense. Aside from a poor animations argument, which is also more than debatable (I play with seventy and have exactly zero issues with animations, but hey, different people see different things), the value of speed threshold lets each user decide what HE thinks is the best representation of real-life speed disparity between players on the field. Some think it's fifty, some think it's zero, some think it's 75... Everyone can play how they see fit. To each their own, that's all it is.

Its preference but in real life you take a 4.21 40 yd dash vs a 4.6 guy the difference is real. A 4.21 guy is moving at 9.50 yds per second and the 4.6 guy is moving at 8.69 yds per second so the argument is real because 0 threshold is based on facts not watered down version of people wanting to satisfy their personal needs. The threshold does just that, it holds faster players back to accommodate the slow players. Botton line, in the NFL, do you think a Head Coach going against Randy Moss ever asked him to slow up intentionally to accommodate slower DBs!!!!!!!


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[mathteachernerd1968]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

Speed Threshold at ZERO makes sense unless you think it's realistic for LB's to be able to cover fast WR's.

It may be nice for some to see a LB with 86 speed able to cover a 94 speed WR, but come on...

[davebarr19]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

I have my speed threshold at 0. And Everson Griffen man covered John Ross III on a fly route step for step and got the pick. #SimulationIsAwesome!

[asantead22]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

I have my speed threshold at 0. And Everson Griffen man covered John Ross III on a fly route step for step and got the pick. #SimulationIsAwesome!

So you like 0 threshold? I think the game is much better without the threshold! I play with my AllTime Rosters and I am really enjoying it on All-Madden!


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[Aestis]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

If I see +4 spd on a pre-snap matchup, it should be a free TD, which is why I recommend 0 spd threshold. That's called reading the defense and is definitely realistic.

[Darth Aegis]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

I'm reading a lot of sarcasm in this thread

[tg88forHOF]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

Its preference but in real life you take a 4.21 40 yd dash vs a 4.6 guy the difference is real. A 4.21 guy is moving at 9.50 yds per second and the 4.6 guy is moving at 8.69 yds per second so the argument is real because 0 threshold is based on facts not watered down version of people wanting to satisfy their personal needs.

Because acceleration isn't a thing. Running routes, making cuts, and otherwise changing directions (necessitating some manner of deceleration and re-acceleration) doesn't happen....and some guys aren't better or sharper at doing those things, allowing them to stay with a guy who ran faster in his underwear at the combine. Pass routes don't incorporate deliberate changes of speed to accomodate a release or get a defender to flip their hips, change their leverage, sell a route then pop a double-move, etc. Pursuit angles aren't a thing either.

Oh, and splits don't exist either...if a guy ran a 4.21 40, he maintained that average pace for all 40 yards. Every second, he covered exactly 9.5 yards...no more, no less.

For that matter, some guys don't maintain speed better going from the Underwear Olympics to pads....every analyst and scout who's ever said so is wrong.

Basically, "real" football is played in shorts, guys run in straight lines, and everybody is always moving at their absolute top-rated speed as measured at the combine over 40 yards. And the faster guy always burns the slower guy, no matter what.

"Facts"

[tg88forHOF]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

If I see +4 spd on a pre-snap matchup, it should be a free TD, which is why I recommend 0 spd threshold. That's called reading the defense and is definitely realistic.

Man I hope this was sarcastic.

[Aestis]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

Man I hope this was sarcastic.

I have a popular User v User slider set designed for 32 man leagues. Let's just say you'd never see us touching 0 threshold, that is pure arcade. Football is a game of inches.

[Aestis]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

The ironic part is this guy contradicts himself in his own post.

4.21 = 9.5 yds per second, as he cites
4.6 =8.7 yds per second


So say a WR ran a 4.21, that's one of the fastest 40 times in history going up against a well below avg 40 time for a CB. And the separation after a full second of them sprinting downfield is less than a yard. Even ignoring important things that have been brought up here like acceleration, agility, pads which slow everyone down and keep things even closer together, fatigue, ratings like press/release & route running, the fact that the 4.21 guy is literally trying to sprint with a large strong human in front of him instead of in shorts on a track, etc. Even discounting all those things, in Madden at 0 threshold, that 4.21 guy would have blown past the CB already by several yards and over the next second would be like 8+ yds past him.

Ideal threshold value changes every year and there's a degree of uncertainty/judgment, but objectively 0 is terribly unrealistic this year.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

Best example I can think of is an iconic play for Chiefs fans: 4th and 9.

Week 14, 2018, Baltimore at Arrowhead. Part of that first half-season of Lamar Jackson, they were better than we expected, and we were down by 7, driving with less than 2 minutes left.

Throws behind the LoS and the Baltimore defense swarming had us backed up to 4th and ballgame at our own 40. Mahomes got immediate pressure at the snap, had to bail out right, run around, and finally hit Hill deep on a scramble drill. Down to the Baltimore 12, scored on a flare to Williams a couple plays later to force OT, we won, see you next year Ravens.

That throw and that play was probably the one that finally locked in Mahomes as the 2018 MVP. And of course it was Hill who broke away for the deep prayer. Chiefs doing Chiefs things, right?

Here's the thing...Hill was in CJ Mosley's area of the zone on that play. The fastest guy in the NFL, in or out of pads, and by 2018, he'd developed his route running to the "hey, he's pretty good" level. Covered by Mosely, a LB....an athletic LB, but absolutely no way he hangs with Tyreek Hill in a footrace.

And it took about 6-7 seconds for him to break away. Go watch the broadcast video of that play, and Mahomes is scrambling around for a good 6 seconds before he finally launches it, and Hill doesn't break away until a full second later, right before the ball arrives.

It took Hill 6 or 7 seconds to beat Mosely.

Now imagine that play in Madden 20 at a zero threshold. The pressure probably doesn't ever have time to get to Mahomes before Hill has beaten the coverage and is already a good 10 yards behind the 2nd level.

[asantead22]

Re: DB Glitch and Speed Disparity

Best example I can think of is an iconic play for Chiefs fans: 4th and 9.



Week 14, 2018, Baltimore at Arrowhead. Part of that first half-season of Lamar Jackson, they were better than we expected, and we were down by 7, driving with less than 2 minutes left.



Throws behind the LoS and the Baltimore defense swarming had us backed up to 4th and ballgame at our own 40. Mahomes got immediate pressure at the snap, had to bail out right, run around, and finally hit Hill deep on a scramble drill. Down to the Baltimore 12, scored on a flare to Williams a couple plays later to force OT, we won, see you next year Ravens.



That throw and that play was probably the one that finally locked in Mahomes as the 2018 MVP. And of course it was Hill who broke away for the deep prayer. Chiefs doing Chiefs things, right?



Here's the thing...Hill was in CJ Mosley's area of the zone on that play. The fastest guy in the NFL, in or out of pads, and by 2018, he'd developed his route running to the "hey, he's pretty good" level. Covered by Mosely, a LB....an athletic LB, but absolutely no way he hangs with Tyreek Hill in a footrace.



And it took about 6-7 seconds for him to break away. Go watch the broadcast video of that play, and Mahomes is scrambling around for a good 6 seconds before he finally launches it, and Hill doesn't break away until a full second later, right before the ball arrives.



It took Hill 6 or 7 seconds to beat Mosely.



Now imagine that play in Madden 20 at a zero threshold. The pressure probably doesn't ever have time to get to Mahomes before Hill has beaten the coverage and is already a good 10 yards behind the 2nd level.

I hear you, however I am in two online custom leagues with ALL-TIME ROSTERS with 0 threshold and the game is running super good! No cheesy suction animations, RBs break away and get thru holds correctly, etc... the only negative is the lackluster passing game! Too many drops when contact is made. Settings are ALL-Madden Default except the threshold.
You would would think bombs away with speedsters like Moss, Hill, Gault, but not true! When the correct defense and coverage is called, the defense makes the plays. Today I threw a 75 yd rollout TD with D. Watson to D. Hop! The guy I was playing paid too much attention to the run so I rollout and threw a touch pass over the DB and off to the races!
I guess it boils to what style you like. My biggest complaint with past Maddens has been the suction animations because it hinders the player from maximizing his efforts!


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