The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

[manliest_Man]

One major issue with the series that is brought to light, everytime a new EA SPORTS UFC game launches, is the lack of a coherent vision.

(That issue is derived from the bulk of the initial impressions/complaints)

For the most part, I used to believe EA SPORTS, stood for: "AAA Quality, Realistic depiction of the Sport, Focus on a polished Multiplayer Experience" and what was expected from an EA game on the consumer side of things, is to have to pay a hefty price to experience that quality.

Unfortunately Everytime an EA SPORTS UFC game launches, it never really feels like anything the consumer base wants and expects out of the biggest gaming brand behind it.


If we compare THQ's UFC Undisputed 3 vision, it aligns much more with what the consumers want out of an MMA game.

THQ wanted to create a realistic depiction of the sport and attemp to allow as much control to the player as possible, in order to feel the struggle of the sport and experience it's advanced aspects, while remaining fun, since it's a game afterall.

They succesfully took on that vision and stuck with it, for all of their UFC Undisputed iterations.

They managed to simultaniously be casual friendly and tune the game(particularly the damage & stamina systems), to the point where everyone could pick it up, play it and have fun with it, while at the same time allowing players to get more immersed with the more advanced aspects of MMA and become educated in the sport.
Those advanced aspects were of course distinguished from the casual stand-up aspect of the game and they are the ground/clinch game and the in-depth striking techniques(octagon control, stamina management, when and what strikes to use). Their solution to bridge the advanced aspects of MMA, with a video game, was the inclusion of an insanely in-depth & optional Tutorial, that was divided to categories,such as Beginner, Advanced and Expert.

The fact that EA didn't copy that nearly perfect vision that THQ had and endulge in a few anti-consumer marketing tactics, as was expected, boggles my mind.


From what I can gather, these are my general impressions left from the past 3 games and a few early ones from the 4th's short BETA.

I will mainly try to focus on the vision of each game:

• EA UFC 1: A great attempt and a great base built on a next-gen UFC Game. It looked amazing at the time, the engine was fresh and looked incredible. Unfortunately we didn't get half of the in-depth content that came with it's predacessor(THQ's UFC Undisputed 3), but it was acceptable, as it was their first attempt at bringing the sport of MMA on the newly launched consoles and at least, it was visually stunning.
  
  
• EA UFC 2: A bit of a casual approach on the feet, but the ragdol KOs were more fun than any other video game on the market and a pleasure to look at, the physics focused gameplay was really promising and all around we had another great base of the franchise at this point, but we were getting impatient as it still wasn't better than it's now even older competitor(Undisputed 3). Suprisingly for EA, the highly advertised fighters were unlockable through playing the Campaign and the anti-consumer Ultimate Team mode, was optional and fully enjoyable, even if you didn't buy any microtransactions.
  
  The new ground game, although lacking compared to it's competitor, it was coming in nicely and had the potential to become greater and surpass it's predaccesor, with a few extra animations/mechanics to be able to perform advanced leg locks/arm traps, cage-seated positions, ground head movement, crawling etc.
  
  While requiring a lot of practice to master, for the first time, we had a system, that the casuals could potentially comprehend with a very basic tutorial, thanks to the easier and assisted controls, but of course would fail against a more skilled player, if they didn't take into account the advanced mechanics, such as grappling advantage or stamina management or knowledge of the actual ground positions of the sport.
  
  
• EA UFC 3: It came out as a huge disappointment, despite the patches fixxing most of it's issues later on. While the new Striking System, was the obvious choice for the game to focus on advancing, it was completely unpolished at the beginning, it had some noticable downgrades compared to it's predaccesor(the KO animations) and asides from the stand-up, the polish we expected from the ground game and what we thought, would be some minor additions to it, were not present.
  
  Also most fans, were hoping the new stand-up system would focus on bringing more realism out of the Sport and not take the direction of an E-Sports title, which clearly resulted in arcadey gameplay. I knew at this point, that they didn't stick to their original vision of the series, which was closer to the Undisputed 3 vision. Instead we started getting an incoherent vision, where unpolishness with an E-Sports focus was a terrible combination and with the fact that most of the fights were an unrealistic depiction of the sport, it was starting to look bad for the series. Which is why it had failed to meet our expectations and we were rightfully mad about it this time and why a lot of us felt that it still wasn't a clear winner, from a now 6-8 year old Undisputed 3.
  
  
• EA UFC 4 BETA: Thankfully the patches brought EA UFC 3 to a state, where we felt comfortable and hopeful. We felt that finally, some all-around polish and a major focus on the stand-up clinch system, would bring us to a dreammy MMA gaming experience. We took for granted, that they would fix the horrible KO animations and the lack of a proper Finish the Fight Sequence, with TKOs and Referee interference as well as other MMA aspects(such as Draws, doctor stoppages etc.). I believe as a community, we were ready to look past, the fact that they would reuse old assets/graphics, as we are at the end of the current console generation and the current systems can't be pushed any further.
  
  But that unfortunately couldn't be further from the truth... Not only did they not address the biggest and most common issues of the last 2 games, but on top of that they downgraded and casualised the game, mainly the Ground game and undid almost everything it's predacessors were doing up to this point... 2.5 years later, it feels as if most of the work on this development cycle, went into undoing the work of the past 3 games and simplifying their mechanics and automating or removing feutures, to the point where it feels close to playing a mobile game.
  
  It goes without saying, that the decision to focus the resources on unrealistic cosmetics/arenas and forcing the Ultimate Team on the Ranked Mode with the actual fighters, isn't too favorable from the community.
  

Bringing me back to my original point, that the Vision of the series is all over the place...

What is EA SPORTS UFC really about? Is it a realistic representation of the MMA Sport?(EA UFC 1) Is it an arcadey Game, with some advanced aspects of the sport(EA UFC 2)? Is it an E-Sports game(EA UFC 3) or a casual game(EA UFC 4)? Where are the principles and the main Vision of the franchise?

It's only Appropriate I end my post with none other than the Vision of the EA SPORTS UFC series, straight from the horses mouth:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bxAWh_Agx0Q" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So after watching the video above, I ask you, when you look at the EA SPORTS UFC series, is it the most realistic UFC game you've ever seen? When you play EA SPORTS UFC, Do you feel like you are stepping on the feet of a fighter in the Octagon?

Do You Feel the Fight?

[Yaari]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

Good post, and a fair question to ask. I have no ****ing idea what they are going for with this franchise. But if you look at that vision trailer, it should be pretty obvious what the original goal was.


So I guess they threw everything out of the window to please the casual player. Because no decision they make now is in line with any of that anymore. Not even visually, because casual players would never understand how they lost due to GnP unless they go completely limp, right?


Brian Hayes sure was good at selling his vision but he has not delivered on it. Key decisions made in this franchise are completely against any of what he presented to us in that video.


Wonder what 2013 Brian Hayes would have thought if someone told him there would be Werewolves, Zombies and Seamen in his game.

[manliest_Man]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

Wonder what 2013 Brian Hayes would have thought if someone told him there would be Werewolves, Zombies and Seamen in his game.

Again, I personally could look past such decisions, for the sake of mixxing things up and giving the option to have some fun around the game as extra content.

But they should have made sure to have a solid base to stand on, before they go on to adding such feutures and making those changes. Even if the changes end up bringing in more casuals to the game, they should have been reserved for when the game was in a better state. Take some loses now if they have to(EA backing them up helps) and then bring in the casual-friendly feutures, without undoing the ones, that are bringing a realistic depiction of the sport to life.

It's truly bizzare, how 8 years later, we have yet to see a proper TKO/G&P system that comes close to feeling and looking as awesome as the the one from Undisputed 3.

The bar was set, all they had to do is follow the blueprint.

[Reflex_ion]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

I m half with you on this on. Really great post by the way. But i do not completly agree on the purely skin aspect of the whole présentation.

Skin CAF fighter.
Venues... backyard etc...
Flash red screen when ko.
Clothes... jewellery... etc

I do not agree it will dismisse the authentique feeling of real mma...

Sure i havent play the whole thing to backup my thinking.

But back in fight night... we had dozen of liscenced boxer and a whole lot of CAF and carrer opponent to chose from. Still... was THE Boxing game. These games were spot on...

I do beleive we Will be on for a ride with ufc 4... etheir on a fun factor and récréation of the sport. Hope im not wrong.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

One major issue with the series that is brought to light, everytime a new EA SPORTS UFC game launches, is the lack of a coherent vision.

(That issue is derived from the bulk of the initial impressions/complaints)

For the most part, I used to believe EA SPORTS, stood for: "AAA Quality, Realistic depiction of the Sport, Focus on a polished Multiplayer Experience" and what was expected from an EA game on the consumer side of things, is to have to pay a hefty price to experience that quality.

Unfortunately Everytime an EA SPORTS UFC game launches, it never really feels like anything the consumer base wants and expects out of the biggest gaming brand behind it.


If we compare THQ's UFC Undisputed 3 vision, it aligns much more with what the consumers want out of an MMA game.

THQ wanted to create a realistic depiction of the sport and attemp to allow as much control to the player as possible, in order to feel the struggle of the sport and experience it's advanced aspects, while remaining fun, since it's a game afterall.

They succesfully took on that vision and stuck with it, for all of their UFC Undisputed iterations.

They managed to simultaniously be casual friendly and tune the game(particularly the damage & stamina systems), to the point where everyone could pick it up, play it and have fun with it, while at the same time allowing players to get more immersed with the more advanced aspects of MMA and become educated in the sport.
Those advanced aspects were of course distinguished from the casual stand-up aspect of the game and they are the ground/clinch game and the in-depth striking techniques(octagon control, stamina management, when and what strikes to use). Their solution to bridge the advanced aspects of MMA, with a video game, was the inclusion of an insanely in-depth & optional Tutorial, that was divided to categories,such as Beginner, Advanced and Expert.

The fact that EA didn't copy that nearly perfect vision that THQ had and endulge in a few anti-consumer marketing tactics, as was expected, boggles my mind.


From what I can gather, these are my general impressions left from the past 3 games and a few early ones from the 4th's short BETA.

I will mainly try to focus on the vision of each game:

• EA UFC 1: A great attempt and a great base built on a next-gen UFC Game. It looked amazing at the time, the engine was fresh and looked incredible. Unfortunately we didn't get half of the in-depth content that came with it's predacessor(THQ's UFC Undisputed 3), but it was acceptable, as it was their first attempt at bringing the sport of MMA on the newly launched consoles and at least, it was visually stunning.
  
  
• EA UFC 2: A bit of a casual approach on the feet, but the ragdol KOs were more fun than any other video game on the market and a pleasure to look at, the physics focused gameplay was really promising and all around we had another great base of the franchise at this point, but we were getting impatient as it still wasn't better than it's now even older competitor(Undisputed 3). Suprisingly for EA, the highly advertised fighters were unlockable through playing the Campaign and the anti-consumer Ultimate Team mode, was optional and fully enjoyable, even if you didn't buy any microtransactions.
  
  The new ground game, although lacking compared to it's competitor, it was coming in nicely and had the potential to become greater and surpass it's predaccesor, with a few extra animations/mechanics to be able to perform advanced leg locks/arm traps, cage-seated positions, ground head movement, crawling etc.
  
  While requiring a lot of practice to master, for the first time, we had a system, that the casuals could potentially comprehend with a very basic tutorial, thanks to the easier and assisted controls, but of course would fail against a more skilled player, if they didn't take into account the advanced mechanics, such as grappling advantage or stamina management or knowledge of the actual ground positions of the sport.
  
  
• EA UFC 3: It came out as a huge disappointment, despite the patches fixxing most of it's issues later on. While the new Striking System, was the obvious choice for the game to focus on advancing, it was completely unpolished at the beginning, it had some noticable downgrades compared to it's predaccesor(the KO animations) and asides from the stand-up, the polish we expected from the ground game and what we thought, would be some minor additions to it, were not present.
  
  Also most fans, were hoping the new stand-up system would focus on bringing more realism out of the Sport and not take the direction of an E-Sports title, which clearly resulted in arcadey gameplay. I knew at this point, that they didn't stick to their original vision of the series, which was closer to the Undisputed 3 vision. Instead we started getting an incoherent vision, where unpolishness with an E-Sports focus was a terrible combination and with the fact that most of the fights were an unrealistic depiction of the sport, it was starting to look bad for the series. Which is why it had failed to meet our expectations and we were rightfully mad about it this time and why a lot of us felt that it still wasn't a clear winner, from a now 6-8 year old Undisputed 3.
  
  
• EA UFC 4 BETA: Thankfully the patches brought EA UFC 3 to a state, where we felt comfortable and hopeful. We felt that finally, some all-around polish and a major focus on the stand-up clinch system, would bring us to a dreammy MMA gaming experience. We took for granted, that they would fix the horrible KO animations and the lack of a proper Finish the Fight Sequence, with TKOs and Referee interference as well as other MMA aspects(such as Draws, doctor stoppages etc.). I believe as a community, we were ready to look past, the fact that they would reuse old assets/graphics, as we are at the end of the current console generation and the current systems can't be pushed any further.
  
  But that unfortunately couldn't be further from the truth... Not only did they not address the biggest and most common issues of the last 2 games, but on top of that they downgraded and casualised the game, mainly the Ground game and undid almost everything it's predacessors were doing up to this point... 2.5 years later, it feels as if most of the work on this development cycle, went into undoing the work of the past 3 games and simplifying their mechanics and automating or removing feutures, to the point where it feels close to playing a mobile game.
  
  It goes without saying, that the decision to focus the resources on unrealistic cosmetics/arenas and forcing the Ultimate Team on the Ranked Mode with the actual fighters, isn't too favorable from the community.
  

Bringing me back to my original point, that the Vision of the series is all over the place...

What is EA SPORTS UFC really about? Is it a realistic representation of the MMA Sport?(EA UFC 1) Is it an arcadey Game, with some advanced aspects of the sport(EA UFC 2)? Is it an E-Sports game(EA UFC 3) or a casual game(EA UFC 4)? Where are the principles and the main Vision of the franchise?

It's only Appropriate I end my post with none other than the Vision of the EA SPORTS UFC series, straight from the horses mouth:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bxAWh_Agx0Q" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So after watching the video above, I ask you, when you look at the EA SPORTS UFC series, is it the most realistic UFC game you've ever seen? When you play EA SPORTS UFC, Do you feel like you are stepping on the feet of a fighter in the Octagon?

Do You Feel the Fight?

To be completely honest if you have never stepped in a octagon or a sparring room you simply cannot relate to that in its self.

In terms of a video game feeling “realistic” none even our beloved UD3 feels like actually fighting , training and sparring for an mma fight.

As gamers that have minimal ring time we should stop chasing the conceptual realistic mma game and hold them to a fire to just simply make a good polished game.

Cause I can tell you actually striking with live humans isn’t anything like any video game I’ve played yet even fight night champion although closer still feels like a game. Nothing can simulator the feel of landing a hard shot on a guy that you see roll their’s eyes back at the same time that you hand starts throbbing from the collision, or how heavy your arms feel three minutes into your 3 round. It’s not a feasible request, but a good polished game that is approachable yet complex and bug free with the right set of features that rely a clear development direction is perfect obtainable, just not by EA.




Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Yaari]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

To be completely honest if you have never stepped in a octagon or a sparring room you simply cannot relate to that in its self.

In terms of a video game feeling “realistic” none even our beloved UD3 feels like actually fighting , training and sparring for an mma fight.

As gamers that have minimal ring time we should stop chasing the conceptual realistic mma game and hold them to a fire to just simply make a good polished game.

Cause I can tell you actually striking with live humans isn’t anything like any video game I’ve played yet even fight night champion although closer still feels like a game. Nothing can simulator the feel of landing a hard shot on a guy that you see roll their’s eyes back at the same time that you hand starts throbbing from the collision, or how heavy your arms feel three minutes into your 3 round. It’s not a feasible request, but a good polished game that is approachable yet complex and bug free with the right set of features that rely a clear development direction is perfect obtainable, just not by EA.




Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Why was the Fight Night aswell as the Undisputed series and EA MMA much more realistic in its striking then? I get what you are saying, but a lot of it is due to decisions that are made.


Just because they polished their games does not mean we can't disagree with decisions they have taken along the way.


Also the whole "you don't know how it feels" argument can be said about any kind of game. Shooters, Racing, every sports game. That just doesn't excuse this approach in design for me.

[ApexGamerChannel]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

Why was the Fight Night aswell as the Undisputed series and EA MMA much more realistic in its striking then? I get what you are saying, but a lot of it is due to decisions that are made.


Just because they polished their games does not mean we can't disagree with decisions they have taken along the way.

Those games had a clear vision for what they wanted out of the game. UD3 tried to get the game involved in EVO that’s who confident they were in there games polish.

EA UFC wants to be a fortnite/pseudo fighting game, with cool mechanics that aren’t polished or properly tested in an effort to make as much money as possible while showing no respect to the sport, the ufc brand history, or the fans intelligence. And I can’t help but to feel like the less involved unchecked opinions of causal fans of the internet have impacted they decision making. Someone in a thread said the game was causing them to get kod after they missed a headkick, well yeah big risk big reward in my eyes but players like that want the game to forgive them for there mistakes and the systems in game to hold there hands, that speaks to the devs for some reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Reflex_ion]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

Vision... it will be clearer when we Will get the whole picture...

This is the meaninig of evolution. Is it fast enough for you guys. Is this or that that you would have prioprise... etc... this is all subjective.

We never swim in the same water twice.

What was imagine yesterday... wasnt probably what was conceive today... and by tomorow... it will surely be obsolete.

They do think they have make key changes... for enhance gameplay and immersion for every level of gamer... subttle To all refont of aspect. Online and offline... this is no marketing To me... those Guy are real and they work hard everyday. They trully beleive they havent work for nothing and with or against the new direction the 4th itération as follow... they ve been all in.

For now... they are probably polishing their obsolete vision for launch. All ready visualise key changes for their major 1rs update down the road To softener edges of what is their vision witch is constantly mooving... with gamer réaction and comment.
Technology...

But let get at least few time with the not so far away next game before we nail the whole vision as shallow or a complète mess.

Then... let s them time to fine tune their way past vision or stuck in time version of it to evolve with feedback...data...and their vision being polish day by day.

[JeffNovitski2]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

LOOK AT THIS. They wanted Frank Mir's submission so they flew in Frank Mir and motion captured him. They knew what moves he used, and were big fans of MMA. That's what I loved about THQ. If they needed someone's help, they flew them to the corporate office - on THQ's dime.



<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RHmq7ieuuoU" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

Have to agree with you, some decisions are absolutely silly.

The exclusion of proper TKOs for example, to make fights more “definitive”

I’m sorry, when did you decide what the rules of the sport of MMA are? MMA is a sport, like boxing, wrestling, football. It has rules and ways to victory. TKOs are one of the main ways to victory but you want to strip that a way because you have a perspective that MMA is not a sport. The referee can easily not exist, the only sport element to the entire fight is that there are still rounds and we have standup timers.

[manliest_Man]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

Someone in a thread said the game was causing them to get kod after they missed a headkick, well yeah big risk big reward in my eyes but players like that want the game to forgive them for there mistakes and the systems in game to hold there hands, that speaks to the devs for some reason.

Well from a realism stand-point it makes sense for someone to complain about that.

In EA UFC 3, any fighter can do matrix dodges and can duck under every Head Kick, regardless of their real-life fighting style or abillity.

In real life if you try ducking a head kick, unless it's from Jon Jones's long & skinny legs, it doesn't fly above your head, with your opponent spinning in slow motion like a ballerina after missing. You end up eating a knee in the face for being stupid enough to duck into it.

I've only seen Anderson Silva vs Adesanya, where Anderson ducked a kick, by ducking sideways and it happens so fast, that you don't have time to counter it. People's legs don't float in the air in slow motion, after they miss a kick, with their feet and heads perfectly planted and locked on the exact same spot, rotating in 360°, so that their heads remain an easy target to get perfectly counter-punched by a Straight.

The game handicaps you when you miss a head kick, your stamina drops to like 0% making you vunerable to a 1 strike KO and as if that gamey mechanic wasn't bad enough, it freezes you into that animation and locks you out from doing anything to recover after missing that head kick(like blocking or walking away or using head movement). On top of that, your opponent can always cover the distance while you are frozen, thanks to magnetic striking mechanics, that are designed to give him free counter strikes, even when they don't make sense. It essentially works exactly like Parries but wait, I thought parries were removed???

So you are basically frozen and hope your opponent missclicks a counter strike or the game drops their input, in order to survive missing a big strike, like a head kick.

I suggest you watch the recent Whittaker vs Daren Till, the 3rd round at the 3 min mark, they keep throwing headkicks and everyone is moving out of range or leaning away and noone attempts to counter strike, because as soon as they miss, the put their hands up and start backing out of punching range, instead of spinning like ballerinas.

If they do spin like ballerinas, it still doesn't make sense to go after them, as they propably have too much momentum to properly aim at them and you end up getting cought by a spinning back fist or smth, basically like running into a brick wall.

[Irish0331]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

I'm just baffled by some of the decision making. Baffled why things that aren't broken get "fixed" (like ragdolls in 2 but not 3 or full caf editing in 3 but not 4). Feels like its excuses about "data" and being "too much work to add in.

Dude, I had instant replay on a sports game 25 years ago.

I'm the guy ea loves...because despite my issues with the game, ill be buying it on launch day. Maybe I'm part of the problem cause they know they have a "monopoly" on mma games at the moment and people will drop cash for it regardless of what crap they feed us.

[gsp4392]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

We should boycott this game until our demands are met, but will it be possible is the question?

[LarsP]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

I do believe this team wanted to make the best possible MMA game initially, but people at EA allocating budgets (who don't exist, we were told) just wouldn't let them. I think when development for EA UFC 1 started, it was right around the time microtransactions started to become really prominent. Also during that time, EA's mission went from trying to make the best game for the players, to make games that are trying to maximize microtransactions profit.

I do really hope the gaming community (not just the UFC community) is going to let their wallets speak for once, and send a message, but I'm not hopeful.

[fishingtime]

Re: The Main Problem with the EA SPORTS UFC Series: Contradicting Vision

The fact that EA didn't copy that nearly perfect vision that THQ had and endulge in a few anti-consumer marketing tactics, as was expected, boggles my mind.

The fact that one company went bankrupt and the other is the biggest game company in the world should help you focus your mind. You can't appeal to a few people on a game's forums over the millions buying the games.