Zone defense

[jhump1981]

Im an online franchise guy. Zone coverage is the worst. Does it play better in an offline franchise. Does zone plays actually work in any mode? Is there something i can do to tighten them up? Its frustrating because I don’t want to call man coverage plays on every down

[ReturnoftheTmac]

Re: Zone defense

Im an online franchise guy. Zone coverage is the worst. Does it play better in an offline franchise. Does zone plays actually work in any mode? Is there something i can do to tighten them up? Its frustrating because I don’t want to call man coverage plays on every down

I’m surprised people don’t talk about this more. I tried the 10 hour trial and honestly couldn’t get past it. Every mode I played it was hot garbage

[MaD1521]

Re: Zone defense

Do u make any presnap adjustments? What difficulty?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[SouthernWarrior]

Re: Zone defense

Im an online franchise guy. Zone coverage is the worst. Does it play better in an offline franchise. Does zone plays actually work in any mode? Is there something i can do to tighten them up? Its frustrating because I don’t want to call man coverage plays on every down

Your LB's need to be AMAZING to play zone. Otherwise they just constantly attack the TE's

Otherwise focus on pass rush which makes it more erratic.

But playing on all pro or all madden the QB if they're good (Rodgers, Brees etc) almost always goes like 18/20 to start the game.. but get stopped in the red zone.

[Mike Lowe]

Re: Zone defense

I've had the opposite experience. My team plays far better in zone.

[MaD1521]

Re: Zone defense

Maybe depends on team/strength...find zone less consistent but adjustments pre snap and pressure helps

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[benton32]

Re: Zone defense

I wish i could post this play ohh wait maybe i can i posted it on twitter ill find the link omg hot garbage zone, the safety was covering kittle and then just took off and left him for a wide open TD

https://twitter.com/MikeHen93038720/status/1310418603695460352

by the way did the new patch mess up Qbs taking off and running now half the time they just keep back peddling till they get sacked

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Zone defense

Your LB's need to be AMAZING to play zone. Otherwise they just constantly attack the TE's

This is the biggest adjustment a lot of people haven't made yet.

With the change to LB speed and overall coverage skills, LBs are subpar in most coverage situations now, either zone or man. With very few exceptions, they'll get absolutely roasted by WRs, and will struggle with top-shelf TEs and receiving backs.

And when I say "very few exceptions", it's actually very few...the number of competent coverage LBs this year is tiny. A guy who's ok-ish against swing passes to a back won't cut it...I'm talking like prime Kuechley levels of coverage ability to hold up in this year's game.

Like in the real league, you absolutely have to avoid leaving LBs alone on a hook curl or a 3-rec against a slot WR or better TE...it's a huge mismatch, and they'll get destroyed. You absolutely can't just keep running base against 11 personnel groups and count on a user LB to hold up in coverage anymore...even 12 personnel is iffy (I usually go big nickel againt 12).

Swap a S into at least 1 SUBLB slot (preferably a good Run Support guy, to help out against runs out of 11 personnel looks, which the CPU is also doing more of). Run at least nickel personnel against 3 WR looks...dime on obvious passing down-and-distance and 4 WR or empty sets. Play smart. Call the right zones against the right sets (trips, bunch, etc), and learn what Sky, Buzz, Match, Quarters, Palms, Hole, Robber, and such mean if you don't already...they matter this year.

I strongly suspect a large percentage of the issues people are reporting with both man and zone coverage, especially with underneath passing, are the result of just not having adjusted to this change yet, and they still have LBs out on a slot WR out of a base 4-3 or 3-4 set.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Zone defense

I wish i could post this play ohh wait maybe i can i posted it on twitter ill find the link omg hot garbage zone, the safety was covering kittle and then just took off and left him for a wide open TD

https://twitter.com/MikeHen93038720/status/1310418603695460352

What was the play call?

It's hard to tell, only seeing half the field and without the play art, but that looks like a spot-drop C3 where that safety's responsibility was the curl-flat, which he jumped (you can see the other S coming over from the middle of the field late on the quick throw to the slot receiver in the seam....which is how you're supposed to get a guy open against C3...threaten both seams).

[benton32]

Re: Zone defense

I understand that but in that situation that close to the endzone forget the flats, stay with the TE i get it its madden the cpu players are not smart like real life on the fly adjustments, and i think that other safety was just coming over reacting to the pass being thrown there,

i dont remember the play call or art i guess that would help i was just blown away by the fact u up and leave a guy who is in the endzone, to go over tot he flats where no one was at other then the other WR who was covered by the CB, i did see the CB kinda wanna almost switch with the safety but it was just a weird play

[SouthernWarrior]

Re: Zone defense

This is the biggest adjustment a lot of people haven't made yet.

With the change to LB speed and overall coverage skills, LBs are subpar in most coverage situations now, either zone or man. With very few exceptions, they'll get absolutely roasted by WRs, and will struggle with top-shelf TEs and receiving backs.

And when I say "very few exceptions", it's actually very few...the number of competent coverage LBs this year is tiny. A guy who's ok-ish against swing passes to a back won't cut it...I'm talking like prime Kuechley levels of coverage ability to hold up in this year's game.

Like in the real league, you absolutely have to avoid leaving LBs alone on a hook curl or a 3-rec against a slot WR or better TE...it's a huge mismatch, and they'll get destroyed. You absolutely can't just keep running base against 11 personnel groups and count on a user LB to hold up in coverage anymore...even 12 personnel is iffy (I usually go big nickel againt 12).

Swap a S into at least 1 SUBLB slot (preferably a good Run Support guy, to help out against runs out of 11 personnel looks, which the CPU is also doing more of). Run at least nickel personnel against 3 WR looks...dime on obvious passing down-and-distance and 4 WR or empty sets. Play smart. Call the right zones against the right sets (trips, bunch, etc), and learn what Sky, Buzz, Match, Quarters, Palms, Hole, Robber, and such mean if you don't already...they matter this year.

I strongly suspect a large percentage of the issues people are reporting with both man and zone coverage, especially with underneath passing, are the result of just not having adjusted to this change yet, and they still have LBs out on a slot WR out of a base 4-3 or 3-4 set.

so given this, is it general to set a scheme for a franchise that's 3-4 or 4-3??

I find in a 3-4 its impossible to get pass rush, but then you still run into the LB issue without the proper LB covers.

And in a 4-3 same issue w LB in terms of you really need them all to be Stellar zone coverage guys.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Zone defense

I understand that but in that situation that close to the endzone forget the flats, stay with the TE i get it its madden the cpu players are not smart like real life on the fly adjustments

Real life players aren't all that smart, either. It doesn't really answer what happened on that play, but I only watched 2 games today, with highlights from 2 more, and I saw at least 3 receivers left more wide open than that in the endzone.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Zone defense

so given this, is it general to set a scheme for a franchise that's 3-4 or 4-3??

I find in a 3-4 its impossible to get pass rush, but then you still run into the LB issue without the proper LB covers.

And in a 4-3 same issue w LB in terms of you really need them all to be Stellar zone coverage guys.

That piece doesn't matter as much...whichever is more comfortable for you and dictated by your roster. If your best EDGE guys are LBs, run 3-4. If they're DEs, run 4-3.

The point is, you shouldn't be in either 3-4 or 4-3 against 3 or more WRs. If there are that many receivers on the field, you need to be in a sub package (nickel, dime, etc), and sub packages are fairly consistent between both schemes (the only real difference is whether your rushers are LBs or linemen).

Like in the real league, if you put 3 or 4 LBs on the field against a passing formation, you'll get picked apart.

[sandp]

Re: Zone defense

This was such a well-written post. I find that the game plays a lot more realistically than previous years. This time, you can't have an lb or safety zig zagging all over the field, and ratings seem to really matter as well as situational awareness. Similar to the real nfl, if it's 3rd and long, don't worry about keeping things in front of you, stop them from converting. It's been a blast.

If you don't mind me asking how do you know what zones to call against which sets tho? and where do you learn more about sky, palms and all?

thanks

This is the biggest adjustment a lot of people haven't made yet.

With the change to LB speed and overall coverage skills, LBs are subpar in most coverage situations now, either zone or man. With very few exceptions, they'll get absolutely roasted by WRs, and will struggle with top-shelf TEs and receiving backs.

And when I say "very few exceptions", it's actually very few...the number of competent coverage LBs this year is tiny. A guy who's ok-ish against swing passes to a back won't cut it...I'm talking like prime Kuechley levels of coverage ability to hold up in this year's game.

Like in the real league, you absolutely have to avoid leaving LBs alone on a hook curl or a 3-rec against a slot WR or better TE...it's a huge mismatch, and they'll get destroyed. You absolutely can't just keep running base against 11 personnel groups and count on a user LB to hold up in coverage anymore...even 12 personnel is iffy (I usually go big nickel againt 12).

Swap a S into at least 1 SUBLB slot (preferably a good Run Support guy, to help out against runs out of 11 personnel looks, which the CPU is also doing more of). Run at least nickel personnel against 3 WR looks...dime on obvious passing down-and-distance and 4 WR or empty sets. Play smart. Call the right zones against the right sets (trips, bunch, etc), and learn what Sky, Buzz, Match, Quarters, Palms, Hole, Robber, and such mean if you don't already...they matter this year.

I strongly suspect a large percentage of the issues people are reporting with both man and zone coverage, especially with underneath passing, are the result of just not having adjusted to this change yet, and they still have LBs out on a slot WR out of a base 4-3 or 3-4 set.

[tg88forHOF]

Re: Zone defense

This was such a well-written post. I find that the game plays a lot more realistically than previous years. This time, you can't have an lb or safety zig zagging all over the field, and ratings seem to really matter as well as situational awareness. Similar to the real nfl, if it's 3rd and long, don't worry about keeping things in front of you, stop them from converting. It's been a blast.

If you don't mind me asking how do you know what zones to call against which sets tho? and where do you learn more about sky, palms and all?

thanks

The sad answer is "all over"; there's no one single source that answers how all of those options play in Madden.

The problem is that Tiburon has actually done a decent job over the last several years updating pass coverages to match real league defensive trends....it may not be enough, or fast enough, but over the course of 6-7 years or so, they've incrementally added a few new zone options and match coverages every year to where we have a lot of options that all play differently, and you can actually call somewhat modern options.

Unfortunately, they haven't updated the Skills Trainer at all during that timeframe. It still teaches you 80s spot-drop concepts ("a cover 4 is a zone concept with 4 deep defenders, good against deep passes") when what's available to players on the field is more 21st century. Really, the Skills Trainer is where all of this should be.

It turns out, modern NFL defenses are complicated, and until recently, Madden let us get away with playing decent defense using outdated, simplified concepts. Now we need to use those modern concepts, and only hard-core football people have access to that info on a tribal basis.

So you have to go hit the web...YouTube, Reddit, scattered threads here and on other Madden forums, etc. I've found a surprising number of decent coverage explanation articles on SB Nation team fansites. Bear in mind that a lot of those resources will explain how things work in the real game, and due to legacy issues and just normal video game translation, Madden will execute them similarly, but not exactly.

Some starting points:

Coverage shells vs. different alignments (doubles, trips, bunch) - CM Hooe had a solid writeup in this thread:

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/975759-i-cannot-play-good-pass-defense-year-me.html

I'm also hoping Stinkubus sees this....he always does a solid, intelligible write-up on this.

C4 Quarters and Palms pattern-matching -

https://www.reddit.com/r/MaddenUltim...m_source=share

https://www.reddit.com/r/MaddenUltim...m_source=share

Inside The Pylon has some useful definitions here: http://insidethepylon.com/category/f...-football-101/


Some quick hits:

Cover 3 Sky vs. Buzz - This determines who will take one of the underneath curl flat zones (the other will always be the underneath strong side LB or slot DB). In Sky, whichever safety isn't covering the deep middle will drop down and cover it (the video the guy posted on page 1 of this thread looks like a Sky call, with that S dropping down to cover that zone and leaving Kittle open). In Buzz, the weak side LB or slot defender in dime will cover that zone, and the extra S will take an inside curl hook instead).

Cover 1 Hole vs. Robber - The difference between the two is who covers the underneath middle zone (mid read or 3rec hook) in a Cover 1 that doesn't blitz. In Hole, a LB or slot DB provides that zone. In Robber, the extra safety (the one who isn't playing the deep middle) drops down to cover it. With the change to LB coverage, Robber is much better on passing downs.