Allpro football would sell this time

[simbayless]

The world wasn't ready for allpro football 2k8 and yes I know not having a franchise was a big part of it.

I rather have fake teams that plays like real football then real license teams that plays like disguise Arcade football claiming that it's sim.

I feel this time around it will sell because it's fresh,new, different,and madden been abusive To us gamers with mediocrity with broken promises for years.

Making Dope gameplay with a dope franchise would be football Heaven. I go even further take the maximum football route as far as making college and pro customizable like jersey, divisions, stadium crowd chants noise builder .college rankings,pro playoffs,bowls,top 4 playoffs, rivalry creator just make everything customizable to to your hearts desire like MYNBA.

[Kingd803]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

I agree completely.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

The problem is they just got back in good standing with the NFL. If the league doesn’t approve of the game they could lose that license for good this time. If they did an APF with just the players license, they probably would have to go out of their way to not allow recreating the NFL like last time. Have a 28 team league for instance. Fake teams, with a somewhat limited creator that doesn’t allow you to make NFL logos, etc.

Current players would make that game sell, but it seems more likely to me they will use both the league and players to make a game around my park or the yard type gameplay. The NFL would be more likely to get on board with that and it’s not breaking the “simulation” deal the NFL has with EA


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[SolidSquid]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

Unlicensed football games just won’t sell. Sure the people here would love it bc we just want a good representation of football, but the masses wouldn’t even give it a second look. Even when we had NFL 2k it took a 19.99 price point to get the masses to pay attention

[illwill10]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

Unlicensed football games just won’t sell. Sure the people here would love it bc we just want a good representation of football, but the masses wouldn’t even give it a second look. Even when we had NFL 2k it took a 19.99 price point to get the masses to pay attention

I agree. Unlicensed sports games in general don't sell well. It's hard to market fictional players and teams to a casual fan. Thats why indie titles don't have a realistic shot at success. I would like a Super Mega Baseball type of Football game. 2k had NFL legends and it still sold poorly. Even licensed niche titles don't sell well. NFL Head Coach had a very in depth franchise mode, but as a niche title, its not going to sell. That's why you see these sports titles catering heavily to causal crowd.

But, I do feel that it would have sold better now then it did in 2007. It still would get washed by Madden, but wouldn't have been a flop in sales terms. 2K Sports has a way better reputation now than in 2007. And with Social Media, it's a lot easier to market when you have a huge platform. Then you factor in the Anti-Madden, Alternative, Football fan crowds, it would have sold better now.

The main problem was the lack of depth and unclear direction. They hit the reset button after 2k5. Only thing to do was Play Now, Online, or Barebones Season mode. They should have either waited a year to build some more stuff for game or ate the loss and tried for a 2k9 and build out what they originally planned for. We don't know what the long term plan was for All Pro. But the problem was the Legend Approach. There's only so much you can do with Legends. You can't really age them, and don't want generic players to eventually phase them out.

I think the All Pro approach could work this time around especially since they have the NFLPA license. It was already an original version of Ultimate Team/MYTeam. Keep that same approach but just use real players since you have that license. You just need to find out how to fill out the rest of game with depth

[NewNapkin]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

Yeah, this is a pretty tired argument. APF 2k8 was "amazing" but it didn't sell enough to even try releasing another. Super Mega Baseball is considered one of the best-made sports games around, but if I asked any baseball buddies about it, they'd have no idea what I was talking about. Sports games rely on a market of non-hardcore gamers. Licenses sell games to that market.

[simbayless]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

2k as a brand wasn't poping like they do now.Im not saying it's gonna beat madden in sales but It will sell enought to recoup that money and make a very nice alternative as a franchise IP

[bkrich83]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

2k as a brand wasn't poping like they do now.Im not saying it's gonna beat madden in sales but It will sell enought to recoup that money and make a very nice alternative as a franchise IP

It won't sell anywhere near enough to sell enough to make it worth their effort. They know it, which is why they've shown zero interest in resurrecting it at any point post release.

[J_Posse]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

It won't sell anywhere near enough to sell enough to make it worth their effort. They know it, which is why they've shown zero interest in resurrecting it at any point post release.

Well, Madden "reimagined" the idea & had the backing of the NFLPA & NFL HOF. That gave them a much, much bigger pool of players to "draft" from while also putting 2K behind the 8-Ball (losing a ton of legendary players).

They intended on going forward with APF 2K9, but the plug was pulled for more than just financial reasons.

We'll see if Take-Two/VC will resurrect the brand, go with just an arcade/mobile title or have something completely different planned very soon.

I do agree that the NFL & NFLPA are the holy grail for any pro football based video game. Which is why EA has paid vast amounts of money to maintain the exclusive license for so long.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[kehlis]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

Well, Madden "reimagined" the idea & had the backing of the NFLPA & NFL HOF. That gave them a much, much bigger pool of players to "draft" from while also putting 2K behind the 8-Ball (losing a ton of legendary players).

They intended on going forward with APF 2K9, but the plug was pulled for more than just financial reasons.

But isn't the argument being made here that they would do fine with fully 100% fictitious players?

[J_Posse]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

But isn't the argument being made here that they would do fine with fully 100% fictitious players?

I don't think so because that model - whether Maximum, Axis Football or Blitz the League - has proven to sell way too poorly for a huge publisher like Take - Two.

I think they have more up their sleeve than just a 'NFL Playgrounds' since that would also be a weak selling, low ceiling (growth potential wise), minimum to no cultural impact having, niche title that can't be iterated annually (or hasn't been).

Hopefully by January or February (the Super Bowl) we'll read or see something official so the speculation can cease.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

The difference now is that APF2K21 would have NFL teams and players. It may still be more like fantasy, and have generic players to make up the bulk of teams, but they will have the same stuff to sell their game as EA has to sell MUT.

I still don't know if that is enough, but it is better than 2K8's legends and zero NFL affiliation. This can have real stadiums, meaning a ton of gamers hometown stadiums, real NFL logos, and current stars.

Will be interesting to see if a MUT like mode can sell without a franchise mode included. I wonder how many people that hate Madden will buy the franchiseless 2K, thinking they are sticking it to Madden, only to see EA decide to spend even less time on franchise, and 2K may never add it.

Because if 2K sells well, it's proof that EA was right not to invest in franchise before.

[kehlis]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

I don't think so because that model - whether Maximum, Axis Football or Blitz the League - has proven to sell way too poorly for a huge publisher like Take - Two.

I think they have more up their sleeve than just a 'NFL Playgrounds' since that would also be a weak selling, low ceiling (growth potential wise), minimum to no cultural impact having, niche title that can't be iterated annually (or hasn't been).

Hopefully by January or February (the Super Bowl) we'll read or see something official so the speculation can cease.

Official HQ of Bills Backer/Spurs Nation

I was simply asking about the point of the post and the OP.

This to me reads to me like he's asking for a fictional league. What am I missing?

The world wasn't ready for allpro football 2k8 and yes I know not having a franchise was a big part of it.

I rather have fake teams that plays like real football then real license teams that plays like disguise Arcade football claiming that it's sim.

I feel this time around it will sell because it's fresh,new, different,and madden been abusive To us gamers with mediocrity with broken promises for years.

Making Dope gameplay with a dope franchise would be football Heaven. I go even further take the maximum football route as far as making college and pro customizable like jersey, divisions, stadium crowd chants noise builder .college rankings,pro playoffs,bowls,top 4 playoffs, rivalry creator just make everything customizable to to your hearts desire like MYNBA.

[simbayless]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

I was simply asking about the point of the post and the OP.

This to me reads to me like he's asking for a fictional league. What am I missing?

It can be fictional or real either way. Here's another idea 2K could do is have all pro mode franchise of fictional roster and have a my park like setting using nfl players that way we will all be happy.

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Allpro football would sell this time

At this point, 2K doesn't need ideas. Whatever they decided was their best path forward for the game this coming year has been decided. So you are just getting a head start for your 2K22 Wishlist.

At this point, we just have to wait until they show us what they have. We can imagine how great or awful it will be, but it still won't mean anything.

The entire premise the thread is based on nothing, and the OP betrays himself when he says he would rather have fake players that play sim than real player that play arcade, as though that is an option anyone even considers.

SMB3 is not great because it is sim, because it is not. It's great that because it is fictional, we can accept whatever this reality presents as long as the games are fun, strategic, and competitive. While you make baseball decisions constantly, they are not sim.

The most valuable pitcher on my team is my middle reliever. Because in a 5 inning game, his 2-3 innings every game means he has more impact than anyone. I make baseball decisions based around this fact, about when to PH, when to leave guys in, and so on, but they aren't sim. I balance when to work counts and force my opponent into his bullpen versus being aggressive at the plate and putting pressure on. But in a 5 inning game, those decisions are way different, but the strategy is still informed from decades of playing real and video game baseball, and watching all sorts of live baseball.

Like the short games in MUT, SMB3's Pennant Race is more like playing the last half of a game, when the decisions are being made.

If 2K goes fictional, it is not to go sim, it is to go competitive online. It will be about how to make competitive games that you can finish in about 30 minutes. That's where the money is. If you get lucky, someone will crank out a SMB3 like franchise mode out of the game, which again, is a ton of fun and very strategic, but not sim in any way shape or form.

But, man, I'd run an online league using that as the player movement model for any sport. It's awesome.

Right now, there is one path to great solo franchise modes in sports, and that's PC developers targeting much lower benchmarks, going for a last gen look, but souped up stats and simulation engine. It needs to be indie, because the moment you go AAA, sim because a liability, not a feature.

I'd be first in line to buy Front Page Sports Football Pro 22. But Football Pro 99 **** the bed so hard they recalled the game, and the closest anyone came to attempting to fill that niche was EA with Head Coach, and it flopped a decade ago.

I have to say though, I am insanely curious about what 2K is doing. I've been 100% wrong before, and would love to be now. But it seems like people just ignore two things.

1. As public entity, the NFL is really pretty gross and pathetic
2. Because of #1, they don't care if anyone produces an "NFL Simulation" or not, as long as the checks clear

For anyone that wants simulation football, EA and the NFL's is sucks, but it is going to be that way for at least 5 more years because the NFL would prefer EA's sure thing over whatever 2K could promise.