More Patient & Tactical GNP

[Boiler569]

I want more patient and tactical ground & pound.

(well, hammerfists & elbows too..)

It gets so repetitive.

Yes, there is some skill in guessing the correct combos both offensively and defensively ... & I love the new defensive options in GNP! ... reversals & sweeps/etc. are legit from the bottom! ....

But mostly, GNP = Blah.

Elbows from postured up would help a lot. High Risk High Reward --- easy to be swept/reversed; but can do stun damage and set up another 3 strike combo (or another Hellbow )

A root problem is the Queue system. You are literally forced to button mash and queue strikes in GNP. I've asked several top 100 players if they do anything other thanq queue 3+ strikes from Postured Up ... they all said "Of Course We Queue!"

I know elbows (and hammers) from postured up probably won't come until UFC 5 but I really hope another pass it done on GNP to try and make it more fun, and less spastic!!!

[lbnt149]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

Aye it's one of the worst aspects of the game, and really needing work

The decision to use a queue system has been a total failure, doesn't look realistic, doesn't feel realistic, causes gas out, can't keep people locked in GnP

That's without the frankly ludicrous elbows being missing issue

[TurkeyOfJive]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

I've mentioned this in several topics since release - the queue system is horrible and really needs to be changed. I've grown to like the new GnP system but the queue aspect just feels bad - you cannot react to changes, makes you gas easily from queued strikes that are avoided and has the feeling of "being stuck in the mud".


Another change I've mentioned in other topics, that I feel would greatly benefit the GnP system (especially if the queue is changed), is the auto pull down on block. It would benefit both the offensive and defensive party for this to be completely removed. You can still use R1 + Up to pull down but giving full control to players means that GnP situations may last longer as people actively look to use the R1 + Left/Right/Down transitions they normally don't, would allow the SUB to block strikes whilst looking for transitions and might give the DOM more time to work on top as they aren't pulled down the second it is available as happens most of the time now with it tied to block.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

I have two main gripes with ground and pound. The first has plagued the series for a while now which is the damage system and how fighters take numerous shots with no visible effect (barring the red visuals?) until the final shot abruptly drops them dead. Imagine if stand-up only had knockouts without rocks or knockdowns.

The second issue is mostly a result of the new GNP system. Right now, straights and hooks don't have meaningful differences other than block-breaking and countering whatever evasive maneuver you think your opponent is attempting. I think grappling in general would benefit if there was more decision-making involved with GNP. Obviously I'm not the biggest fan of Undisputed 3, but I still advocate for its posture system where you can posture up for increased damage but less control. The current visuals where the top fighter forfeits body control and postures up stiff as a board looks goofy. I don't exactly have this fully visualized, but I would like to see a system which emphasizes quality of strikes over quantity by setting up the big postured up strikes with controlled GNP first.

[Irish0331]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

Yep! GnP finishes are the same as they were in the pre-THQ UFC games like Sudden Impact or Throwdown.....you just go completely limp/unconcious.

[TapOrSnap]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

Hello everyone.

Thank you for your feedback regarding the GnP system. I appreciate it and wanted to come in and attempt to address or at least explain the reasons for some of the things you are mentioning.

First let me say that prior to UFC 4 we had 3 pillars to our gameplay; standup, grappling and submissions. While we refined and often made massive changes to those pillars every cycle Ground and Pound is a brand new mechanical addition. As such we experienced some growing pains.

Regarding the lack of elbows and hammers from the new positions, this was for many of us on the gameplay team the most difficult decision we had to make. As this is a new feature we did not have enough time to prepare all the new animations which were required to make them work at a quality that we or our players would have been satisfied with.

Regarding the queue. The GnP system is designed to flow between punches by allowing your fighter to start a new punch as the current punch is completing, to accomplish this we allow you to input successive punches so that we can initiate the transitions between strikes as early as possible. The current queue length is designed to minimize the chance that people feel like their inputs have been missed while allowing you to also vary your strikes. Just as you folks have mentioned we also noticed that it was not fun to feel like you are locked into a series of strikes, which is why we added the ability to tap the right trigger and clear your queue this mirrors the way the combo queue works in standup.

Finally the concept of the auto pulldown was raised again. I know this was a controversial decision however the decision to make that transition the same as the base block input was intentional to prevent newer players who tend to turtle when they get into trouble from being trapped and KOed every time they end up in GnP. We see this happening in standup as well, many players have no concept of head movement and when they get into trouble all they do is hold block and try to walk away from their opponent. Since GnP does not offer the opportunity to walk away we instead allow a turtling player to get out of the situation if their opponent is unable to finish them in the time allotted. Assigning the exit to another input would defeat the purpose as this exists to help the new players who do not yet have the confidence to try other inputs when they find themselves in a dangerous situation.

Again thank you for caring enough about our game to continue to provide feedback. We will continue to learn from you folks and work to provide the best experiences we can for you.

TOS

[Zyaf]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

Hello everyone.

Thank you for your feedback regarding the GnP system. I appreciate it and wanted to come in and attempt to address or at least explain the reasons for some of the things you are mentioning.

First let me say that prior to UFC 4 we had 3 pillars to our gameplay; standup, grappling and submissions. While we refined and often made massive changes to those pillars every cycle Ground and Pound is a brand new mechanical addition. As such we experienced some growing pains.

Regarding the lack of elbows and hammers from the new positions, this was for many of us on the gameplay team the most difficult decision we had to make. As this is a new feature we did not have enough time to prepare all the new animations which were required to make them work at a quality that we or our players would have been satisfied with.

Regarding the queue. The GnP system is designed to flow between punches by allowing your fighter to start a new punch as the current punch is completing, to accomplish this we allow you to input successive punches so that we can initiate the transitions between strikes as early as possible. The current queue length is designed to minimize the chance that people feel like their inputs have been missed while allowing you to also vary your strikes. Just as you folks have mentioned we also noticed that it was not fun to feel like you are locked into a series of strikes, which is why we added the ability to tap the right trigger and clear your queue this mirrors the way the combo queue works in standup.

Finally the concept of the auto pulldown was raised again. I know this was a controversial decision however the decision to make that transition the same as the base block input was intentional to prevent newer players who tend to turtle when they get into trouble from being trapped and KOed every time they end up in GnP. We see this happening in standup as well, many players have no concept of head movement and when they get into trouble all they do is hold block and try to walk away from their opponent. Since GnP does not offer the opportunity to walk away we instead allow a turtling player to get out of the situation if their opponent is unable to finish them in the time allotted. Assigning the exit to another input would defeat the purpose as this exists to help the new players who do not yet have the confidence to try other inputs when they find themselves in a dangerous situation.

Again thank you for caring enough about our game to continue to provide feedback. We will continue to learn from you folks and work to provide the best experiences we can for you.

TOS

As far as the auto pulldown goes, I think there's a simple fix -- add a setting in the gameplay menu that disables this, that more experienced players can go find and check off to be able to do it manually.

[Stealthhh]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

As far as the auto pulldown goes, I think there's a simple fix -- add a setting in the gameplay menu that disables this, that more experienced players can go find and check off to be able to do it manually.

That and give us the option to deny the pull down. If not then it'll just be pointless.

[johnmangala]

Re: More Patient & Tactical GNP

The auto pull down doesnt save noobs in my experience. I could be wrong in general, but at least in my experience I have gotten more KOs from GNP than I ever have in UFC 3.

The main thing that causes that in UFC 4 is the lack of immediate transition HUD and transitions without stamina advantage. Before there were momentum transitions out of GNP so it was hard to GNP plus GNP transitions are too hard to deny now.

I dont get the logic of protecting noobs from GNP when subs were very OP at launch and in a similar place now with back sitting RNC and some other chokes.

It's very hard to finish people with your first attempt at GNP even back, but you can with some chokes still. It should work that way with sub specialists (and FTF subs for everyone else) but as others have noted you can sub Jones with Saki if you're good.

The same should apply to GNP, it should be harder to finish GNP (unless dropped or a GNP specialist).