Stamina serious issues

[diogomn]

Something that has been annoying me so much in the online experience is this:


Expectations: to play like martial mind hahahhah


Reality: you find a game that rewards pressure/ non intelligent fighting..
Guy throws 500 punches in first round, whiffs 400, but because he was able to hit me a few times in the stomach somehow I got a lower stamina.. I'm sorry, did I miss something here? WHat kind of bull**** is this? I can see why there are so many people were upset with the game.



That just encourages people to march foward and smash buttons......


Is it just me? Can't believe it... And yeah that's my last post, I swear

[johnmangala]

Re: Stamina serious issues

Bro understand its harder to counter than it is to pressure irl too.

You cant expect to be as proficient as pros like him when you're new to the game.

Post a vid so ppl can actually help you with specific tips.

[Stealthhh]

Re: Stamina serious issues

Tbh I don't have faith in this game anymore. Been here since UFC 1 and UFC 4 is the one I just can't anymore. Tried hard to like it but just gonna wait till UFC 5 unless they surprise us with some miracle patches. Emotes, stamina, damage, realism to follow up KO's are still issues in this game, oh the tracking too... we don't even have elbows and hammer fists yet and we're in patch 9 about to be 10. God I wish I could cuss here I have so much to say. Who decided to add emotes in an MMA game? Who decided to have the intros scrapped and replaced with fighters doing moronic gestures and fortniteish dance moves? Why can't we turn off the quick chat when it gets toxic? We don't even have a f'n simulation mode for online. The cosmetics are ridiculous to say the least, animated decals really... where are the boxing gloves a lot of us have been asking for? Nah chief, Bob the builder and rainbow bear masks are what this game needs right? Jeezus man just so much wrong with this game. It baffles me why they took it in this direction. They may have added new features, new clinch, and other stuff, but man every other aspect of this game is just ugh. Don't even get me started with career mode...

[diogomn]

Re: Stamina serious issues

Bro understand its harder to counter than it is to pressure irl too.

You cant expect to be as proficient as pros like him when you're new to the game.

Post a vid so ppl can actually help you with specific tips.

I see where u coming from, and I appreciate your solicitude,
but the way you've put it, it seems like there ain't a problem in the game itself but with me, the player... I'm the one who needs to work harder to deal with the gaps in th game



My point is.. Martial is really good at the game, but most of all, he enjoys it...It's fun for him... even with all the cheese and problems of the game, he, being a pro, can workaround it...


The thing is... I don't think the game is fun for the regular player.



The main argument I wanna make is the regular player like me, (not exactly new to the franchise, Ive played, ufc 1, 3 and now 4.) will have a tremendous hard time dealing with the way the game is right now.


The online gameplay is not appealing or fun, and honestly I don't think somebody should put it the effort to play as well as martial to only then be able to actually have FUN with the game.. the game is really annoying and stressful, not even jokin here...


I'm considering stop playing for a while to maintain my mental health

[diogomn]

Re: Stamina serious issues

That's what I'm talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1XnQjOjLFY&t=439s

[Abstrakt fists]

Re: Stamina serious issues

I see where u coming from, and I appreciate your solicitude,
but the way you've put it, it seems like there ain't a problem in the game itself but with me, the player... I'm the one who needs to work harder to deal with the gaps in th game



My point is.. Martial is really good at the game, but most of all, he enjoys it...It's fun for him... even with all the cheese and problems of the game, he, being a pro, can workaround it...


The thing is... I don't think the game is fun for the regular player.



The main argument I wanna make is the regular player like me, (not exactly new to the franchise, Ive played, ufc 1, 3 and now 4.) will have a tremendous hard time dealing with the way the game is right now.


The online gameplay is not appealing or fun, and honestly I don't think somebody should put it the effort to play as well as martial to only then be able to actually have FUN with the game.. the game is really annoying and stressful, not even jokin here...


I'm considering stop playing for a while to maintain my mental health

I actually largely agree with your take here. I play the game a lot and I really don’t find it very fun. I have always been a hardcore combat sports gamer. Top ten on all the fight night and THQ UFC games, #1 on EA MMA. Now I am not even top 100 and it largely comes down to this game not really making sense to me. Thousands of matches and I’m still not sure exactly how stamina works or why I get dropped half the time.

[UFCBlackbelt]

Re: Stamina serious issues

In my experience, stamina doesn't really play a role as much as it should.

More often than not, it's the body damage (not the stamina) that will win you a long fight. I have so few fights that go to decision.

Wait until you hit the top 100 and pressure is the least of your concerns. Top 100 is full of guys who have mastered every possible exploit/cheese in the game

[johnmangala]

Re: Stamina serious issues

I see where u coming from, and I appreciate your solicitude,
but the way you've put it, it seems like there ain't a problem in the game itself but with me, the player... I'm the one who needs to work harder to deal with the gaps in th game



My point is.. Martial is really good at the game, but most of all, he enjoys it...It's fun for him... even with all the cheese and problems of the game, he, being a pro, can workaround it...


The thing is... I don't think the game is fun for the regular player.



The main argument I wanna make is the regular player like me, (not exactly new to the franchise, Ive played, ufc 1, 3 and now 4.) will have a tremendous hard time dealing with the way the game is right now.


The online gameplay is not appealing or fun, and honestly I don't think somebody should put it the effort to play as well as martial to only then be able to actually have FUN with the game.. the game is really annoying and stressful, not even jokin here...

I'm considering stop playing for a while to maintain my mental health

Nah bro it's not you're fault. Even guys like MM say they dont like parts of the game, so do I. I'm just trying to explain that you have to develop more skills to play like him.


You are trying to play like MM, bro that's hard to do. You're trying to play like him and you just started, like I said its harder to counter than pressure in real MMA too.

Even the pros have issues with pressure and think it's not where it should be, forcing it will just frustrate you like you are. You should post a vid of you playing so ppl can give you specific tips.

Accept it's not a sim and more arcade and you'll have more fun, I shifted my perspective in ufc 3 and I have more fun. I do admit it's not where I want it to be, but it is what it is. Stamina is not where it should be but you can deal with it like mm when you get better, pressure will still be easier tho.

It's like going into basketball as a beginner or something and trying 3 pointers because you saw curry do it and made it look easy on the regular instead of going for more layups.

[diogomn]

Re: Stamina serious issues

Nah bro it's not you're fault. Even guys like MM say they dont like parts of the game, so do I. I'm just trying to explain that you have to develop more skills to play like him.


You are trying to play like MM, bro that's hard to do. You're trying to play like him and you just started, like I said its harder to counter than pressure in real MMA too.

Even the pros have issues with pressure and think it's not where it should be, forcing it will just frustrate you like you are. You should post a vid of you playing so ppl can give you specific tips.

Accept it's not a sim and more arcade and you'll have more fun, I shifted my perspective in ufc 3 and I have more fun. I do admit it's not where I want it to be, but it is what it is. Stamina is not where it should be but you can deal with it like mm when you get better, pressure will still be easier tho.

It's like going into basketball as a beginner or something and trying 3 pointers because you saw curry do it and made it look easy on the regular instead of going for more layups.

I undestand, im gonna try to get better without losing my braincells...
I agree with some points you've made, it is what it is..


I just dont agree with the one you say something in the lines of 'its easier to march foward and strike irl' , It is, but if you try to do that to an mma professional fighter, you are going to get knocked out... So I really hoped the game gave me the tools to really **** up a 'hungry' pressure fighter, But it doesn't.. it is what it is

[johnmangala]

Re: Stamina serious issues

I undestand, im gonna try to get better without losing my braincells...
I agree with some points you've made, it is what it is..


I just dont agree with the one you say something in the lines of 'its easier to march foward and strike irl' , It is, but if you try to do that to an mma professional fighter, you are going to get knocked out... So I really hoped the game gave me the tools to really **** up a 'hungry' pressure fighter, But it doesn't.. it is what it is

Nope it's easier to pressure than counter in real MMA for pro fighters.

And the tools are there you just havent been able to do it, you already admit you're emotional when you play and get frustrated easily. That doesnt go well with countering which requires more patience and resolve than pressuring.

If you're trying to compare a bum off the street vs a pro fighter of course theyll get ****ed if they try to pressure a pro fighter irl Lol. The point you're missing is they'd get ****ed harder if they tried to counter a pro fighter.

So the question is do you think you're a pro ufc 4 gamer? That's what you're suggesting that some bums pressuring you, you should be easily able to finish them. I'm not a high level player let alone pro and I savor the opportunity to fight bum pressure it's so easy to beat in this game now. Ppl who run away with good TDD are much harder.

Countering takes way more skill and experience in real MMA.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Stamina serious issues

Johnny boy is speaking straight truth right here.

As a general rule of thumb if you look at most UFC fighters' records you will quickly notice that their earliest pre-UFC fights have lots of very quick finishes because they're fighting opponents who make more mistakes. Pressuring beginners is effective because it denies them breathing room and makes them uncomfortable so they are more likely to make punishable errors.

I'm pretty sure that if you compiled data of ESFL events that the earliest fights/fights between lesser players have way more first round KOs compared to the top 10. Yet, they're supposed to be among the elite of the entire playerbase.

[bmlimo]

Re: Stamina serious issues

Well after a long time I started to play online and wow guys play like max holloway and theres almost no stamina penalty unless i do some body daamge

[BQ32]

Re: Stamina serious issues

The OP is hitting the nail on the head here even if you don't think he is not skilled or experienced enough to have a valid opinion. First in regards to Martial Mind, he is good at the game, but he is a pro streamer, not a pro fighting game player. I haven't watched a ton of his videos but I did just watch one recently in which he stated he does not stream and gave the impression that it was because of the game being exploitable. That means he is only uploading games that he feels the viewers will deem exciting to watch and or most likely show off his skills. He is not going to upload a game in which someone is using cheese successfully against him making it a frustrating ugly fight or giving him a loss unless he is angling to make a point. Next you say it is easier to pressure than it is to counter lol, maybe because it is easier for any scrub to run out and wing punches but as soon as you walk into a world class fighter that sits at distance and smacks you in the face with great accuracy I guarantee at that moment you don't think it is easier to walk into range and push a good fighter back. They upped the damage per single shot in the big gameplay patch to better help relay this effect. However the patch had two significant consequences that actually made the game harder defensively which I will explain below.

Players are playing at a bit slower pace now, not because stamina is in a lot better place but because of the increased damage per strike. However pressuring is actually more imbalanced because they took defensive options away by changing how the stamina works and the increased vulnerability due to increased damage per shot. So now when you slip multiple shots in a row or if you are proactively moving your head before your opponent throws your short term stamina is being drained more than before so if and when you get eventually get hit with a strike it will do significantly more damage now. I had mastered head movement and footwork and could completely gas anyone out before the last major gameplay patch but after I noticed that even when making people miss most of there shots, If I had been tagged a couple of times in the body I would start the next round with even less stamina then my opponent. So the OP is right in that hitting someone's body drain's stamina much more aggressively then throwing and whiffing punches. And if you are using head movement and get hit to the more exposed side or to the body when leaning back it is more costly than ever. Next is where good players start exploiting the knees which are very unrealistic as throwing them makes you invulnerable to hooks and uppercuts and devastate your stamina if you continue to take them while trying to counter. So now a pressure fighter is walking you down and if they are smart if they see you are trying to use counter hooks and uppercuts will start throwing those body knees out and conditioning you to block the body and stop fishing for counters. So now we are left with a game that is more straight up and down and favor fighters with more power and or better strike animations. Combined that with how combos will many times slide you into place and cover ground unrealistically to land you are left with a game that just has much more effective offensive tools than defense. So it is fine if it is harder to master defense and counter striking but it is certainly not fine if it is harder to master those and then still give the offense better options.
This is all from a stand up only perspective.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Stamina serious issues

Next you say it is easier to pressure than it is to counter lol, maybe because it is easier for any scrub to run out and wing punches but as soon as you walk into a world class fighter that sits at distance and smacks you in the face with great accuracy I guarantee at that moment you don't think it is easier to walk into range and push a good fighter back.

Nobody disagrees with this. Pressure is more prevalent at lower levels because counter striking requires skills people usually obtain at higher levels.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Stamina serious issues

The OP is hitting the nail on the head here even if you don't think he is not skilled or experienced enough to have a valid opinion. First in regards to Martial Mind, he is good at the game, but he is a pro streamer, not a pro fighting game player. I haven't watched a ton of his videos but I did just watch one recently in which he stated he does not stream and gave the impression that it was because of the game being exploitable. That means he is only uploading games that he feels the viewers will deem exciting to watch and or most likely show off his skills. He is not going to upload a game in which someone is using cheese successfully against him making it a frustrating ugly fight or giving him a loss unless he is angling to make a point. Next you say it is easier to pressure than it is to counter lol, maybe because it is easier for any scrub to run out and wing punches but as soon as you walk into a world class fighter that sits at distance and smacks you in the face with great accuracy I guarantee at that moment you don't think it is easier to walk into range and push a good fighter back. They upped the damage per single shot in the big gameplay patch to better help relay this effect. However the patch had two significant consequences that actually made the game harder defensively which I will explain below.



Players are playing at a bit slower pace now, not because stamina is in a lot better place but because of the increased damage per strike. However pressuring is actually more imbalanced because they took defensive options away by changing how the stamina works and the increased vulnerability due to increased damage per shot. So now when you slip multiple shots in a row or if you are proactively moving your head before your opponent throws your short term stamina is being drained more than before so if and when you get eventually get hit with a strike it will do significantly more damage now. I had mastered head movement and footwork and could completely gas anyone out before the last major gameplay patch but after I noticed that even when making people miss most of there shots, If I had been tagged a couple of times in the body I would start the next round with even less stamina then my opponent. So the OP is right in that hitting someone's body drain's stamina much more aggressively then throwing and whiffing punches. And if you are using head movement and get hit to the more exposed side or to the body when leaning back it is more costly than ever. Next is where good players start exploiting the knees which are very unrealistic as throwing them makes you invulnerable to hooks and uppercuts and devastate your stamina if you continue to take them while trying to counter. So now a pressure fighter is walking you down and if they are smart if they see you are trying to use counter hooks and uppercuts will start throwing those body knees out and conditioning you to block the body and stop fishing for counters. So now we are left with a game that is more straight up and down and favor fighters with more power and or better strike animations. Combined that with how combos will many times slide you into place and cover ground unrealistically to land you are left with a game that just has much more effective offensive tools than defense. So it is fine if it is harder to master defense and counter striking but it is certainly not fine if it is harder to master those and then still give the offense better options.

This is all from a stand up only perspective.

This is not true that head movement is less effective. They increased the amount of stamina drain that moving your head does on the opponent while blocking (the dominant form) and without blocking still does the same as before (50% more stamina drain).

Single shot power was only increased in specific vulnerability scenarios (like when whiffing a big shot) and during slip counters. In fact, I think you are right about people playing slower not because stamina (although that is a factor) but because it takes so much longer to knock someone out through the block. The block got a massive buff, making it a safe option to rely on while you get a read on the strikes your opponent throws (while not being safe to hold all throughout the fight). So your assessment of how the game was changed is incorrect.

I think your point about how someone will start to throw body shots and knees when you start to counter is the perfect example of how a lower tiered player’s thoughts are flawed. You see a counter to your gameplan and admit defeat to it for whatever reason (frustration, lack of game knowledge, etc.). A higher level player begins to engage with these strategies and that’s when the fight becomes a wash for the player that has the last gameplan change or a back and forth because both players are constantly shifting what they’re doing (achieving what you would call a high level fight).

To address the scenario itself: the guy starts hitting you with knees when you start to slip to deal with the pressure (a lot of people will walk you down without throwing anything to force you into making a mistake; Suave Jamie calls this “invisible pressure”), but you can can take advantage of them waiting by throwing knees yourself. They get wise to that so they start acting first again; you hit them with stationary double elbows (they beat every strike in the game and are hard to slip).

Okay, so now they’re staying at a distance because you’re a porcupine but still want to pressure: you hit them with push kicks (mostly to the body but then to the head when they block low). So now they’re either all the way out (to avoid your push kicks) or all the way in (trying to out time you in the pocket). But, guess what? You’ve just created a gameplan in which you now own the range. They can’t just come in and run you down anymore. Win or lose, you just defeated full force pressure. And that’s not even adding in all the defensive movement options and body strikes to drain them while they bang away at your block or hit air.

Obviously this is the ideal scenario and some players are going to beat you, but you just initiated four or five sub plans they had to work around to get there. You punished them using the tools the game gives you. You made active reads and adjusted using your game knowledge and own intelligence. You didn’t make it easy.

This is all basic strategy that anyone can implement. The high level stuff are things like setting someone up with feints or conditioning with certain combos only in order to land another combo, reading at a high pace in the pocket. But things like establishing a range? Anyone can do that. That’s not what separates a high level player from a low level one.


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