Operation Sports Forums - View Single Post

vannwolfhawk · 09-04-2021, 04:15 PM

Chicago Action

Ok guys, so I just turned on 2k21 to play around a bit and immediately realized why I didn’t play it and shelved it. I wanted to show you guys what I mean with 2k not capturing the play style of NBA teams nowadays.

So, I did a podcast with a coach a while back on Chicago action for those who aren’t familiar with it. If you watch the NBA or playoffs last year you saw every single team running this action. It is as prevalent in the NBA as the basic PNR and has been for years now. Teams can and do run this action from numerous different alignments like 5 out, horns, etc. you can pretty much run it from anything and disguise the action. You will see a few ideas in the podcast video. I just want to share it for some context.

Here is the podcast…

https://youtu.be/uvNmmIOj1_M

In 2k21 they have 1 Chicago action play and it doesn’t even run correctly. Not to mention the DHO is so poorly executed in 2k that even if it was running properly it creates no advantage for the offense. On top of it being so bad for the user, the CPU can’t run it effectively either.

Edit: There are 6 Chicago Action Plays in 2k21 next gen

1 - Give 51 Chicago - OK by CPU - Not ran properly
2 - Give 5 Out 6 - Ok by CPU - Not ran properly
3 - Give 52 Hold - Great CPU - Not ran properly
4 - Fist 25 Give 12 - Great CPU - Chicago Pistol Action - Great Play
5 - Fist 25 5 Out - Great CPU - Chicago 2 Action - Great Play with 2nd screen after DHO
6 - Fist 5 Out 7 - Best CPU Execution & Options

We need more than this and we need the DHO to immediately roll. Just better execution & timing... But we need more of this from different alignments. Hopefully they are in 22...

As you can see in the video it’s such a hard offense to guard against. It’s 1 reason we see more drop coverage and switching as well as chasing around screens in the NBA nowadays. Now that 2k supposedly fixed chasing around screens, catch hedge in drop coverage, and rotations they could get the D to work against this properly if they executed the offensive action properly.

Until 2k can execute this action, the DHO’s, and defending against it then this game will not reflect real NBA basketball. How can you use guys like The NBA MVP of the league Jokic, or Bam Adebayo, etc properly with the state DHO’s are currently in?

In 2k they have 1 Chicago Action play out of 1 alignment (5 out) which is the best one to add (so that’s a plus). But the play doesn’t execute properly in 2k. All they give us is the DHO after the pin down (play execution over). The DHO passer (think Adebayo) should immediately roll hard to put pressure on the d after the DHO and the pin-down screener needs to lift up while the opposite side is interchanging. None of that happens at all. So what is the point of the action?!

I am not trying to plug 1 of my books but again I have a book with over 105 Chicago action plays with full diagrams and explanations from a multitude of alignments for them to add! There should be no reason we don’t have this in 2k22. It’s been around for over 5 years now. 2k needs to have a good 20-25 of these plays in their game to add to playbooks so teams play like the ones we watch on tv. Add Chicago action plays to 5 out, point away, point over, 4 out, transition secondary break, etc…

https://www.nextplayhoops.com/collec...ction-playbook

After diving in a bit more with this action in 2k21 next gen I think one of the main issues is the action of a DHO is really pointless the way the defensive AI plays against it. The defensive player doesn’t get stuck on the screen and slides under DHO like it never happened. There is no advantage for the offense by using the DHO. They need to fix the off ball help so they can have the defensive player on ball struggle to fight through the action. As is now it’s not realistic defensively and pointless to use any dho’s.

Now, the other thing offensively is the DHO smoothness is inconsistent. There is a hitch after the handoff where player is stuck or doesn’t attack. It’s similar to when you make a crossover move, have defender beat, hit sprint to explode but it takes a second of input delay to react. Those are killing the gameplay in DHO’s and attacking off of them and using the advantage along with the defender having no issues fighting through it. It’s supposed to be just like a PNR. There needs to be some defenders getting caught in the action and on the DHO passer to fight through it… that’s why it’s effective and defenses need to switch it more times than not…

Anyways, rant over. Hopefully, the czar sees this and can add it. Shoot I’ll even send him the book for free if he could add it in.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Edit:

NBA 2k22 Chicago Action Plays In 2k22 That Need Fixing ASAP

These are all the Chicago plays in the game besides a couple of PNR plays that are Chicago/Pistol Action. This 1st list of plays does not give you an advantage and is not running properly currently. The DHO handoff should immediately roll and the backside player should lift. All the action leading up to the end read is great. We just need Da Czar to fix the roll and lift at the end. As is now the DHO just stands there and the backside lift just stays in the corner. It makes using any of these plays useless and these are the plays we need in the game to simulate what every team is running in real life every game. These plays don't work for an advantage otherwise. it's like having a PNR play you call & the screener doesn't roll ever. The bottom list is the 2 Chicago plays that work. Go test them for yourselves and see the difference.

Can someone get Da Czar to see this post? Tag him, send on his social, etc... And he needs to see post #2 in this thread as well as it gives the background of the play... I will add these to the bottom of that post as well so it's all in 1 place.

Chicago Action Plays That DO NOT WORK

Handoff - W Give 53 Swing
Handoff - Give Pin 25
Handoff - Give Delay 52
Handoff - Give 53 Pin
Handoff - Give Point 2
Handoff - Give Piston Snap
Handoff - Give Piston Snap 2
Handoff - Give Horns Flip 1
Handoff - Give 53 Quick
Handoff - Give 53 Fist
Handoff - Give 52 Hold
Handoff - Give 51 Quick
Handoff - Give 51 Quick 1
Handoff - Give 51 Chicago
Handoff - Give 43 Zip
Handoff - Give 43 Series
Handoff - Give 5 Out 4
Handoff - Give 5 Out 6
Handoff - Give 35 Zip
Handoff - Give 42 Quick
Handoff - Give 3 Curl
Handoff - 87 35 Give

Here are the 2 Chicago plays that work. Remember, I do have other Chicago Actions I will use that go directly into Pistol Actions as in the example below with #2. If we got the above plays fixed I would have 0 complaints as to simulating how teams play this year. I have all other areas covered but this is kind of a tough one as this is the meat & potatoes of what team's are running. Denver with Jokic, Heat with Adebayo, etc...

Chicago Action Plays That WORK

1 - Handoff - Give Delay - 5 Wide play & DHO rolls
2 - PNR - Fist 25 Give 12 (This is Chicago Pistol Action)

09-04-2021, 04:15 PM	#2
vannwolfhawk MVP OVR: 26 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Emerald City Posts: 3,444 Blog Entries: 15	Re: NBA X’s & O’s Chicago Action Ok guys, so I just turned on 2k21 to play around a bit and immediately realized why I didn’t play it and shelved it. I wanted to show you guys what I mean with 2k not capturing the play style of NBA teams nowadays. So, I did a podcast with a coach a while back on Chicago action for those who aren’t familiar with it. If you watch the NBA or playoffs last year you saw every single team running this action. It is as prevalent in the NBA as the basic PNR and has been for years now. Teams can and do run this action from numerous different alignments like 5 out, horns, etc. you can pretty much run it from anything and disguise the action. You will see a few ideas in the podcast video. I just want to share it for some context. Here is the podcast… https://youtu.be/uvNmmIOj1_M In 2k21 they have 1 Chicago action play and it doesn’t even run correctly. Not to mention the DHO is so poorly executed in 2k that even if it was running properly it creates no advantage for the offense. On top of it being so bad for the user, the CPU can’t run it effectively either. Edit: There are 6 Chicago Action Plays in 2k21 next gen 1 - Give 51 Chicago - OK by CPU - Not ran properly 2 - Give 5 Out 6 - Ok by CPU - Not ran properly 3 - Give 52 Hold - Great CPU - Not ran properly 4 - Fist 25 Give 12 - Great CPU - Chicago Pistol Action - Great Play 5 - Fist 25 5 Out - Great CPU - Chicago 2 Action - Great Play with 2nd screen after DHO 6 - Fist 5 Out 7 - Best CPU Execution & Options We need more than this and we need the DHO to immediately roll. Just better execution & timing... But we need more of this from different alignments. Hopefully they are in 22... As you can see in the video it’s such a hard offense to guard against. It’s 1 reason we see more drop coverage and switching as well as chasing around screens in the NBA nowadays. Now that 2k supposedly fixed chasing around screens, catch hedge in drop coverage, and rotations they could get the D to work against this properly if they executed the offensive action properly. Until 2k can execute this action, the DHO’s, and defending against it then this game will not reflect real NBA basketball. How can you use guys like The NBA MVP of the league Jokic, or Bam Adebayo, etc properly with the state DHO’s are currently in? In 2k they have 1 Chicago Action play out of 1 alignment (5 out) which is the best one to add (so that’s a plus). But the play doesn’t execute properly in 2k. All they give us is the DHO after the pin down (play execution over). The DHO passer (think Adebayo) should immediately roll hard to put pressure on the d after the DHO and the pin-down screener needs to lift up while the opposite side is interchanging. None of that happens at all. So what is the point of the action?! I am not trying to plug 1 of my books but again I have a book with over 105 Chicago action plays with full diagrams and explanations from a multitude of alignments for them to add! There should be no reason we don’t have this in 2k22. It’s been around for over 5 years now. 2k needs to have a good 20-25 of these plays in their game to add to playbooks so teams play like the ones we watch on tv. Add Chicago action plays to 5 out, point away, point over, 4 out, transition secondary break, etc… https://www.nextplayhoops.com/collec...ction-playbook After diving in a bit more with this action in 2k21 next gen I think one of the main issues is the action of a DHO is really pointless the way the defensive AI plays against it. The defensive player doesn’t get stuck on the screen and slides under DHO like it never happened. There is no advantage for the offense by using the DHO. They need to fix the off ball help so they can have the defensive player on ball struggle to fight through the action. As is now it’s not realistic defensively and pointless to use any dho’s. Now, the other thing offensively is the DHO smoothness is inconsistent. There is a hitch after the handoff where player is stuck or doesn’t attack. It’s similar to when you make a crossover move, have defender beat, hit sprint to explode but it takes a second of input delay to react. Those are killing the gameplay in DHO’s and attacking off of them and using the advantage along with the defender having no issues fighting through it. It’s supposed to be just like a PNR. There needs to be some defenders getting caught in the action and on the DHO passer to fight through it… that’s why it’s effective and defenses need to switch it more times than not… Anyways, rant over. Hopefully, the czar sees this and can add it. Shoot I’ll even send him the book for free if he could add it in. __________________________________________________ _________________________________ Edit: NBA 2k22 Chicago Action Plays In 2k22 That Need Fixing ASAP These are all the Chicago plays in the game besides a couple of PNR plays that are Chicago/Pistol Action. This 1st list of plays does not give you an advantage and is not running properly currently. The DHO handoff should immediately roll and the backside player should lift. All the action leading up to the end read is great. We just need Da Czar to fix the roll and lift at the end. As is now the DHO just stands there and the backside lift just stays in the corner. It makes using any of these plays useless and these are the plays we need in the game to simulate what every team is running in real life every game. These plays don't work for an advantage otherwise. it's like having a PNR play you call & the screener doesn't roll ever. The bottom list is the 2 Chicago plays that work. Go test them for yourselves and see the difference. Can someone get Da Czar to see this post? Tag him, send on his social, etc... And he needs to see post #2 in this thread as well as it gives the background of the play... I will add these to the bottom of that post as well so it's all in 1 place. Chicago Action Plays That DO NOT WORK Handoff - W Give 53 Swing Handoff - Give Pin 25 Handoff - Give Delay 52 Handoff - Give 53 Pin Handoff - Give Point 2 Handoff - Give Piston Snap Handoff - Give Piston Snap 2 Handoff - Give Horns Flip 1 Handoff - Give 53 Quick Handoff - Give 53 Fist Handoff - Give 52 Hold Handoff - Give 51 Quick Handoff - Give 51 Quick 1 Handoff - Give 51 Chicago Handoff - Give 43 Zip Handoff - Give 43 Series Handoff - Give 5 Out 4 Handoff - Give 5 Out 6 Handoff - Give 35 Zip Handoff - Give 42 Quick Handoff - Give 3 Curl Handoff - 87 35 Give Here are the 2 Chicago plays that work. Remember, I do have other Chicago Actions I will use that go directly into Pistol Actions as in the example below with #2. If we got the above plays fixed I would have 0 complaints as to simulating how teams play this year. I have all other areas covered but this is kind of a tough one as this is the meat & potatoes of what team's are running. Denver with Jokic, Heat with Adebayo, etc... Chicago Action Plays That WORK 1 - Handoff - Give Delay - 5 Wide play & DHO rolls 2 - PNR - Fist 25 Give 12 (This is Chicago Pistol Action) __________________ Basketball Playbooks http://www.nextplayhoops.com Last edited by vannwolfhawk; 09-10-2021 at 08:57 PM.