Not thinking through their franchise designs.

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • adembroski
    49ers
    • Jul 2002
    • 5829

    #1

    Not thinking through their franchise designs.

    In their endless pursuit of being casual-friendly, EA just screws one thing up after another.

    Two big franchise additions; player tags and free agency.

    I was kind of excited. Player tags are a pitch I made in '13 but it got cut for time. But here's the thing: So far as I can tell, they don't work. Well some do, but some are just text on the screen, they don't actually do anything. Look for a guy with a Day 1 starter tag starting over a higher rated guy. That's specifically what the tag is supposed to do.

    Next is far more important and, imho, damn near game breaking. The newly structured contracts.

    You can't actually play cap-over-cash anymore. It used to be that the more you paid up front, the more you could push salary back toward the end of the contract. That was the entire game. It's how the Rams do what they do. And it's a risk, because it doesn't free you of the bill, it comes due eventually. Now it does not. They've taken that away completely. No matter how you attempt to structure your contract, the yearly cap numbers are the same.

    I thought when they said there would be "team friendly" and "player friendly" contract options, they were talking about quick ways to select reasonable offers that ranged from salary loaded to bonus loaded, but no, you can't make that choice. There is effectively no difference between the two except that bonus money is guaranteed against the cap. Well then I might as well just go all salary and minimize all bonuses. It makes no difference except now I can cut them whenever I feel like it with zero repercussion.

    It is possible to make the game simpler by adding options like pre-built contracts, but what they actually did was just dumb it down to the point that salary negotiation is more or less predetermined.

    Oh, and if anyone here has ever had a guy accept a team friendly contract, please tell me, because I haven't seen it once. If it only works 1 in a million times, it might as well not be there, because the risk of annoying the player and having him refuse to negotiate further isn't worth it.
    Last edited by adembroski; 10-02-2022, 11:56 AM. Reason: Correction: Accidentally said "player friendly" when I meant "team friendly."
    There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

    The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

    The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
    -Mark Twain.
  • HennyHefner
    Banned
    • Aug 2017
    • 263

    #2
    Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

    Originally posted by adembroski
    In their endless pursuit of being casual-friendly, EA just screws one thing up after another.

    Two big franchise additions; player tags and free agency.

    I was kind of excited. Player tags are a pitch I made in '13 but it got cut for time. But here's the thing: So far as I can tell, they don't work. Well some do, but some are just text on the screen, they don't actually do anything. Look for a guy with a Day 1 starter tag starting over a higher rated guy. That's specifically what the tag is supposed to do.

    Next is far more important and, imho, damn near game breaking. The newly structured contracts.

    You can't actually play cap-over-cash anymore. It used to be that the more you paid up front, the more you could push salary back toward the end of the contract. That was the entire game. It's how the Rams do what they do. And it's a risk, because it doesn't free you of the bill, it comes due eventually. Now it does not. They've taken that away completely. No matter how you attempt to structure your contract, the yearly cap numbers are the same.

    I thought when they said there would be "team friendly" and "player friendly" contract options, they were talking about quick ways to select reasonable offers that ranged from salary loaded to bonus loaded, but no, you can't make that choice. There is effectively no difference between the two except that bonus money is guaranteed against the cap. Well then I might as well just go all salary and minimize all bonuses. It makes no difference except now I can cut them whenever I feel like it with zero repercussion.

    It is possible to make the game simpler by adding options like pre-built contracts, but what they actually did was just dumb it down to the point that salary negotiation is more or less predetermined.

    Oh, and if anyone here has ever had a guy accept a player friendly contract, please tell me, because I haven't seen it once. If it only works 1 in a million times, it might as well not be there, because the risk of annoying the player and having him refuse to negotiate further isn't worth it.


    They tried to make it fancy years ago. The one player franchise or coach franchise or
    team franchise should all be different options. I hate how unlike 2K and the show I can’t run a single team offline franchise but still change lineups or update injuries for other teams. If it’s offline I should have full control to do whatever.


    Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

    Comment

    • oneamongthefence
      Nothing to see here folks
      • Apr 2009
      • 5683

      #3
      Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

      Originally posted by adembroski
      In their endless pursuit of being casual-friendly, EA just screws one thing up after another.

      Two big franchise additions; player tags and free agency.

      I was kind of excited. Player tags are a pitch I made in '13 but it got cut for time. But here's the thing: So far as I can tell, they don't work. Well some do, but some are just text on the screen, they don't actually do anything. Look for a guy with a Day 1 starter tag starting over a higher rated guy. That's specifically what the tag is supposed to do.

      Next is far more important and, imho, damn near game breaking. The newly structured contracts.

      You can't actually play cap-over-cash anymore. It used to be that the more you paid up front, the more you could push salary back toward the end of the contract. That was the entire game. It's how the Rams do what they do. And it's a risk, because it doesn't free you of the bill, it comes due eventually. Now it does not. They've taken that away completely. No matter how you attempt to structure your contract, the yearly cap numbers are the same.

      I thought when they said there would be "team friendly" and "player friendly" contract options, they were talking about quick ways to select reasonable offers that ranged from salary loaded to bonus loaded, but no, you can't make that choice. There is effectively no difference between the two except that bonus money is guaranteed against the cap. Well then I might as well just go all salary and minimize all bonuses. It makes no difference except now I can cut them whenever I feel like it with zero repercussion.

      It is possible to make the game simpler by adding options like pre-built contracts, but what they actually did was just dumb it down to the point that salary negotiation is more or less predetermined.

      Oh, and if anyone here has ever had a guy accept a player friendly contract, please tell me, because I haven't seen it once. If it only works 1 in a million times, it might as well not be there, because the risk of annoying the player and having him refuse to negotiate further isn't worth it.
      A lot of what Madden adds is surface level stuff. Coordinators are surface level. There's very little depth to it. Scouting got an overhaul but there's not much to it other than assigning scouts to regions and mostly forgetting about it. Free agency got a little better but contracts are so basic. I've seen player tags not work. Teams won't draft players if they have tags but it doesn't apply to free agency. EA is pandering to franchise fans without really giving anything of substance but they can say they're adding features.

      Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
      Because I live in van down by the river...

      Comment

      • ShadyFan25
        Rookie
        • Jan 2019
        • 207

        #4
        Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

        Scouting is also very poorly designed from a UI/UX perspective.

        It takes five button presses to go from viewing one players attributes to another. It would be so much better if you could quickly cycle through the prospects with the triggers.

        There is no info on where you're assigning your scouts on the assign scouts page. You have to keep going back and forth between the region breakdown to see where they're being assigned to.

        Why can't we sort prospects? By combine stats, attributes, height, weight, etc.

        Despite these faults, I actually like scouting in 23. It really needs some quality of life features though.
        Fan of:
        Buffalo Bills
        NY Yankees

        Comment

        • tosa
          Rookie
          • Sep 2003
          • 302

          #5
          Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

          One of the biggest issues I have is they never build on what they implement….each year they add their back of the box features and then never polish up what they implemented the year before. I for one wish they would as Adembroski said in the OP is to add some real depth to these features. I’m not sure they realize or care at this point what the franchise gamer really wants. They hire community members to help design what is being asked for and them water down their ideas just to make it “fun” for casuals. The key to all of this is to provide ways for users to toggle off the amount of depth they desire….that way everyone can be more easily satisfied. The other side of this is, if it’s not designed in a way that the CPU can logically use the new features as well , it all really becomes pointless unless you are in a 32 player league.

          Comment

          • GoJags904
            Pro
            • Aug 2014
            • 773

            #6
            Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

            If the resign interest bar is green I've signed players every offseason and during the season. I assume u mean team friendly as player friendly is almost always accepted if green. Also depends on if a FA or not. That is determined by highest offer IMHO.

            Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
            PSN: SELLURGAMEUSUCK

            NFL --- JAX JAGUARS (DUUUUVAAAL)
            MLB --- BOSTON RED SOX
            NBA --- LAKERS4LIFE
            NCAAF --- GATOR NATION (UF)
            NCAAB --- DUKE BLUE DEVILS
            MLS --- DC UNITED
            BARCLAYS PL --- CHELSEA


            MUSIC/ARTIST ALIAS --- SHIESTY SLIM
            "CRAY CRAY" available on ITUNES, GOOGLE PLAY, AMAZON

            Comment

            • adembroski
              49ers
              • Jul 2002
              • 5829

              #7
              Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

              Originally posted by GoJags904
              If the resign interest bar is green I've signed players every offseason and during the season. I assume u mean team friendly as player friendly is almost always accepted if green. Also depends on if a FA or not. That is determined by highest offer IMHO.

              Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
              Yes, I meant Team Friendly. Utterly pointless option.
              There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

              The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

              The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
              -Mark Twain.

              Comment

              • adembroski
                49ers
                • Jul 2002
                • 5829

                #8
                Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                Originally posted by ShadyFan25
                Scouting is also very poorly designed from a UI/UX perspective.

                It takes five button presses to go from viewing one players attributes to another. It would be so much better if you could quickly cycle through the prospects with the triggers.

                There is no info on where you're assigning your scouts on the assign scouts page. You have to keep going back and forth between the region breakdown to see where they're being assigned to.

                Why can't we sort prospects? By combine stats, attributes, height, weight, etc.

                Despite these faults, I actually like scouting in 23. It really needs some quality of life features though.
                UI was something I never mastered as a designer (I'm more about systems; probabilities and such), but yeah, even I can see the flaws. During free agency I'm constantly popping back and forth between the free agency screen to my salary screen.

                Which reminds me of another issue, during the resigning phase, you get a reason the player rejected your offer. Not long enough, too little money, and you could still see the message the next week when you went in to make another offer. Now you gotta take notes or guess or something. I never appreciated that feature enough.

                I do agree that scouting is much better. I actually feel like I can go in with some kind of a strategy now, but since you knew nothing about the class before you assigned scouts last year it was a total crapshoot.

                I actually wouldn't mind a pure two-axis style of contract design if the two axes were total value and then a bonus-heavy to salary-heavy structure continuum within that total value. At least that would allow two strategies for building a roster, even if it's still not a great deal of control.

                Also, why is the Player Personnel department permanent? Shouldn't that be the General Manager? Eventually every team is just going to max this out and it wont matter.
                Last edited by adembroski; 10-02-2022, 12:07 PM.
                There are two types of people on OS: Those who disagree with me, and those who agree.

                The first kind is wrong. The second is superfluous.

                The only difference between reality and fiction is that fiction needs to be credible.
                -Mark Twain.

                Comment

                • Grey_Osprey
                  Pro
                  • Feb 2013
                  • 753

                  #9
                  Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                  @adembroski

                  Not to derail your thread, but since you used to work on the game, I thought you might have a bit of insight into how "easy"/difficult it might be to add the ability to scroll up/down from inside a player/prospect card?

                  So if you entered a player/prospect card and you are on one of the tabs (Scouting Report, Physicals, Skills), you could use the directional button, analog stick, or L/R trigger to scroll up/down through the available players. Not to mention the ability to "marK' or add to favorite while inside the card instead of having to back out.

                  I think this would be a huge quality of life addition for what's become an extremely tedious scouting process.

                  thanks in advance!

                  Comment

                  • oneamongthefence
                    Nothing to see here folks
                    • Apr 2009
                    • 5683

                    #10
                    Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                    One thing that really bugs me is in the front end rosters you can click the right stick to look at stats, contracts, abilities etc. In franchise you have to click on the player then choose stats and awards. Another unnecessary button click.

                    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
                    Because I live in van down by the river...

                    Comment

                    • SOU7GLO
                      Rookie
                      • Nov 2016
                      • 149

                      #11
                      Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                      The franchise staff talent trees are poorly implemented as well. Once you purchase all the traits there is nothing left to do. Where is the creativity, depth, immersion, and longevity? It’s a 30 season franchise mode…

                      Also, the player personnel tab is pointless in online leagues because the trade modifications don’t impact user to user trades. Get rid of it for online franchises and replace it with it more scouting upgrades. The free agent modifications/upgrades might be of some value, but I never buy them. Maybe attracting free agents and preventing players from retiring has some value, but I’m not sure. It didn’t seem like it made an impact before this design “overhaul”. Over the last 2 Madden castles I have yet to purchase any of those traits and haven’t been negatively affected.

                      Scouting traits should be added to the player personnel tab to improve scouting efficiency, reliability, a scouts reputation, unlocking more effective scouts etc. This would be beneficial for online leagues.

                      Lastly, the current state of drafting is a terrible experience. It’s been the same presentation and design for years. No excitement from the crowd, no commish, minimal ambience outside of the smoke lol. No draft summary. We can’t view current draft picks player cards once they’re selected. Instead we must post pics in the chat for everyone to see. And we used to be able to reorder our draft board during the draft and can’t do that anymore with this most recent design. The draft board design should allow for a dynamic draft board that can be customized and fluid.

                      This game and specifically this mode has so far to go. Fix franchise didn’t amount to much. Same lipstick on a pig approach. We need a football sim savior…
                      Let your Soul Glo!

                      Comment

                      • ForUntoOblivionSoar∞
                        MVP
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 4682

                        #12
                        Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                        Originally posted by adembroski
                        UI was something I never mastered as a designer (I'm more about systems; probabilities and such), but yeah, even I can see the flaws. During free agency I'm constantly popping back and forth between the free agency screen to my salary screen.

                        Which reminds me of another issue, during the resigning phase, you get a reason the player rejected your offer. Not long enough, too little money, and you could still see the message the next week when you went in to make another offer. Now you gotta take notes or guess or something. I never appreciated that feature enough.

                        I do agree that scouting is much better. I actually feel like I can go in with some kind of a strategy now, but since you knew nothing about the class before you assigned scouts last year it was a total crapshoot.

                        I actually wouldn't mind a pure two-axis style of contract design if the two axes were total value and then a bonus-heavy to salary-heavy structure continuum within that total value. At least that would allow two strategies for building a roster, even if it's still not a great deal of control.

                        Also, why is the Player Personnel department permanent? Shouldn't that be the General Manager? Eventually every team is just going to max this out and it wont matter.
                        Since we're on the topic of UI, there is no reason for view roster and depth chart to be different screens. I should be able to select a player to trade, view his profile, or move him on the depth chart on the same screen. Just use different buttons. There are a million of them.
                        Originally posted by Therebelyell626
                        I am going to create a team called "the happy town fundament rapscallions" and hurt your already diminishing image
                        https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2049813056

                        Last edited by your mom; 06-06-2006 at 6:06 PM.

                        Comment

                        • metovics8
                          Since '08
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 595

                          #13
                          Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                          They over promise and under deliver on everything they implement... It all sounds great in theory but it never is fleshed out or truly improved upon for most things

                          Just gonna leave this here too Screenshot_20220702-002611~2.jpeg

                          Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Operation Sports mobile app
                          https://www.youtube.com/user/metovics8/videos

                          Comment

                          • oneamongthefence
                            Nothing to see here folks
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 5683

                            #14
                            Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                            Originally posted by metovics8
                            They over promise and under deliver on everything they implement... It all sounds great in theory but it never is fleshed out or truly improved upon for most things

                            Just gonna leave this here too [ATTACH]202665[/ATTACH]

                            Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Operation Sports mobile app
                            They've hit on everything they've mentioned except a chemistry system.

                            Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
                            Because I live in van down by the river...

                            Comment

                            • Von Dozier
                              MVP
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 2196

                              #15
                              Re: Not thinking through their franchise designs.

                              Originally posted by oneamongthefence
                              They've hit on everything they've mentioned except a chemistry system.

                              Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
                              Which sounds like it'd be terrible. That works for NBA2k, when you have so few players on a team, but with 53?

                              Comment

                              Working...