What NFL is Madden Simulating?

[tdogg097]

So here I sit another year with Madden and another year stuck in week 1 of my franchise. You see I'm a stat guy , always have been. I know Maddens sim engine has been terrible over the years and every year I hope they fix it. But here we are with M23 and the sim engine is still awful. Every team/qb throws for 20+ tds, there are no FGs kicked, no fumbles recovered, etc. Those are the easy to spot issues. Once you do a deep dive it only gets worse.

So what is the fix? 2 years ago you could do a 32 team Quick Sim with slider adjustments and get a passable sim experience. Last year that was taken away and sliders would not influence quick sim only slow sim. Okay now we use slow sim to get those stats. I'll start at default All Madden with no adjustments to anything. 5 games in and 10 NFL QBs have a combined 10-29 TD:INT ratio with 75%+ completion percentage. NFL RBs cannot average more than 4.0 ypc, TEs receive too many targets, so many kickoff returns, the list is endless.

So what is the fix? Slider adjustments right. Except only some sliders work. If I turn up a penalty slider to the max I should see that penalty so much it's annoying. M23? You might never see that penalty called again. Kickoff returns should be easy to remedy right? Kickoff power 100 , done. Except when you do that nothing happens. Same with punt power. Some sliders work, some don't. Imo, there is no way to get a sim experience in M23 with a regular sim or a H2H sim. I have done every slider adjustment I could think of. You cannot even get realistic penalty numbers. Statistically this game doesn't replicate what you see on Sundays.

[MHammer113]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

I can’t argue anything you’ve said. It’s not a true simulation and I’ve made this point on other threads, I don’t understand how the NFL allows this product to continue to be exclusive

[cabralk]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

100% agree with you, I've been testing different things for the last few months to figure out how to make it possible. It really comes down to lowering the injury ratings of the players and lower ratings based on position. Problem is who has time to sit and edit 3000+ players and keep doing tests.

[tinpanalley]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

Interesting, wasn't aware of this.
So what was the last good sim-realistic Madden? I've always liked 25.

[gr18]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

Interesting, wasn't aware of this.
So what was the last good sim-realistic Madden? I've always liked 25.

I'd say 16.It was tuned just right with cpu qb AI,penalties, fatigue and such.Id still be playing it more if it had full player editing,which started with 17.Things got out of whack with 17 though.

As far as sim stats 16 did well when super simming.

[JoshC1977]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

Contrary to common opinion Madden (like all console sports games) is far more an RPG than simulator and always has been. It is based on a world that loosely simulates the real-life NFL (the teams, players, schedules, and even many of the fundamental rules of the game, etc.) but that is where the similarities end.

You get to choose which character to roleplay or you can select your own custom character. You have quests with goals/rewards, you have enemy encounters, you make decisions that change the storyline, etc.

But, there are many differences between real life and the fictional universe that makes-up the Madden universe (this is the same across the sports gaming series). The most fundamental difference is that the ratings of each player are not a precise correlation with real life - they roughly align but also contain some creative license (and obviously they level-up). But there are many other differences in how roster transactions are handled, salary structures and so on.

Where Madden has changed in recent years is that the EA team has leaned much more heavily into more high-fantasy, Final Fantasy-esque RPG elements. Some examples:

- Selected player characters now have limit breaks that can trigger while in battle (i.e. X-factor abilities) and you can even equip different "materia" (to use a term from the FFVII series) to change that limit break.
- Coaches have powers as well; for example, a Level 1 HC can now select a healing spell to help their party members (players) heal from injuries more quickly and they can select a number of special spells as they level-up to enhance the abilities of their players.
- You can hire special NPCs (called Offensive and Defensive coordinators) to boost your player characters.
- Your player personnel character has spells to help enhance their bargaining abilities in the 'stores' (i.e. player transactions).
- You now have a tactical phase prior to each battle where you can select your tactics and great your party certain boosts.
- During battle, we now have a dynamic ATB gauge that grants special powers to one side or another based on how the battle is going.

This is not an all-inclusive list, but the point is that EA has created a nice little fantasy world roughly based around the NFL. It's very obvious to me that they are not trying to mimic real life and have opted to develop this as a true fantasy RPG vs one that is a bit more 'grounded'.

Now, I love RPGs - which is why I play sports games. Most sports games do choose to take a more reality-based RPG approach; but I find Madden's adoption of the high-fantasy elements to be interesting. I really struggled with it at first (and still believe that the balancing is 'off') but now that I understand what they are trying to do, it makes more sense to me (I don't necessarily love it, but it makes sense). However, I think one's expectations with respect to how this fantasy world compares to real life needs to be tempered greatly - you just can't expect to find many precise correlations - especially with stats. Until there is a 'Paradigm Shift' (pun intended), I think we all have to either embrace the game for what it is or move-on.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

I think they got their hands on the Tecmo Bowl code and can't figure out how to properly implement it...

[Caulfield]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

some of us might not have the nfl madden we want, but as long as ea makes enough money as is, we consumers get the game we deserve, as long as we keep handing them $

[tinpanalley]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

I'd say 16.It was tuned just right with cpu qb AI,penalties, fatigue and such.Id still be playing it more if it had full player editing,which started with 17.Things got out of whack with 17 though.

As far as sim stats 16 did well when super simming.

So, what's the best NFL game of a time then for everyone? Is there even one?

[oneamongthefence]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

It simulates the real gambling the NFL officially allows and partners with in its MUT mode.



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[EricFreakingBerry]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

It's not the NFL it's just a random FL.

The sim stats are still atrocious and still linked to the same tired simulation guidelines they've had for years. Sure, they've tweaked them here and there, but you can still see all the holes in them.

• Now the passing stats are too high, 70% of the starting QB's in the league will throw for over 4000 yards, when we only had 9 QB's do that this year. Only one threw for over 5000 but often you'll see 4-5 guys above 5000 in a Madden sim.
• The fact that they allow for a couple of return touchdowns but EVERYONE ELSE in the freaking league maxes out at 15 yard punt returns or 29-30 yard kick returns is ridiculous. No one ever breaks off 40-70 yard returns but gets tackled short of the endzone. It's either a hard-coded max or a touchdown.
• Same for a lot of running stats. If a RB has an 80-90 yard long it's almost always a TD. Several 1000+ yard backs have a long of like 8 or 9 yards sometimes. The shortest run for a RB who ran for 1000 yards this year in the real NFL was 36.
• Offensive line stats have been terrible for years.
• Tackle leaders never approach 200 tackles. This year the NFL leader had 184 but you'll never see that in Madden unless it's a user situation.
• Interception leaders are always higher in the first couple of years when all the real players are playing, but then in the later franchise seasons everyone seems to have a hard cap of about 5-7 unless it's a user situation.
• The amount of 10+ sack players usually is insane.
• No one in sim ever has fumble recovery yards almost ever.
• Punting statistics are terrible and way too high on averages and nets.
• Kickers sometimes win kicker of the year going 9/9 on FG's because they only tried 9 FG's all year. Only like one guy ever seems to kick more than 20. In the real NFL we had most of the league try 30+ FG's. They slightly bumped up the long kicks, but a sim kicker will almost never hit a 60+ yarder.

[kingsofthevalley]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

So, what's the best NFL game of a time then for everyone? Is there even one?

I'd go with 23 hands down.

[gr18]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

So, what's the best NFL game of a time then for everyone? Is there even one?

For its time I'd say 2k5.I couldn't play anything past last gen now.As far as since then it's pick your poison with Madden.You weigh the good and the bad and decide what you can tolerate.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

So, what's the best NFL game of a time then for everyone? Is there even one?

The PS2 Maddens were probably the best. Yeah, they had that 'simcade' feel to them, but with slider adjustments, you could get a good game of football. Franchise mode was also insanely deep for the time.

Madden 12 was probably the last decent Madden that I enjoyed. Madden 13 stripped everything out. By Madden 17, they started to get back to decent.

Every Madden since 18 when they switched to the Frostbite engine has been straight garbage. 19 was the last one I bought hoping I would see improvement. I keep seeing the phrase "a step in the right direction" used to describe every recent installment of Madden.

How many years can you take a step in the right direction, yet still not get anywhere?

[tinpanalley]

Re: What NFL is Madden Simulating?

Madden 12 was probably the last decent Madden that I enjoyed. Madden 13 stripped everything out. By Madden 17, they started to get back to decent.

I'm surprised nobody is mentioning 25. Nobody's a fan of it but me?