Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

[Steve_OS]

I’ve continued to play a ton of College Football 25 and Madden 25 this past week,...

Written By: Chase Becotte

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[ChaseB]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

Why CFB 25 outshines Madden 25 when it comes to AI, and what we should expect by now with AI in football games. A version of this story ran in our newsletter that goes out each Friday.

[tril]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

just a thought. could it be because there is an agreement with the NFL not to exactly replicate NFL teams' tendencies and formations.

I say this, because wasn't there a time when NFL teams used Madden as training tool.

just to expand the thought of AI, because of how fast AI is developing, Hopefully sports games will be able to tap into real time data and have CPU AI adjust to game plans accordingly, and also have teams become more dynamic in franchise modes.

The data and technology is out there to make sports games that much more immersive.

[WillieB1214]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

I haven't played Madden this year, just didn't see any point to spend the money when I know it won't get played more than a small fraction in comparison to CFB25, but I do agree that I think CFB plays really, really well. I don't have near the issues that I have read about online that some people do.

[voodoo_magic]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

I think the biggest difference that has been mentioned by a lot of people is CFB uses the whole playbook and seems to correctly factor in your use of plays and success of those plays, which makes teams feel more unique since they're not calling the same plays all the time.

I have a lot of hope that next years Madden could be a really great game after seeing how the CFB game implemented some things.
I think the Madden team will see the positive response to those changes.
Of course it will depend on if the higher ups let them make the game better for people like us.

[pietasterp]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

Without getting into a purely rhetorical argument, I think it might not even be appropriate to call what the CPU is doing in these games "Artificial Intelligence", at least not in the current sense of understanding of what "AI" is.

I believe - although I will freely admit I have no proof - that the games are still essentially being run algorithmically, and there's no actual AI coded into the game in the sense that the CPU does not have a coded model where it makes a real-time evaluation of your personnel, formation, and game situation, and then select a defense (or offense) appropriate for that particular play, while learning what your tendencies are and adjusting over time. It may not even really be possible with current hardware, although again, I'm speaking outside of my own experience.

I understand using "AI" as a shorthand for the CPU's logic as an opponent, but it would be pretty cool if we had "AI" that actually started to simulate human opponents. I hate playing the CPU but it's basically all I ever do based on circumstances.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

Without getting into a purely rhetorical argument, I think it might not even be appropriate to call what the CPU is doing in these games "Artificial Intelligence", at least not in the current sense of understanding of what "AI" is.

I believe - although I will freely admit I have no proof - that the games are still essentially being run algorithmically, and there's no actual AI coded into the game in the sense that the CPU does not have a coded model where it makes a real-time evaluation of your personnel, formation, and game situation, and then select a defense (or offense) appropriate for that particular play, while learning what your tendencies are and adjusting over time. It may not even really be possible with current hardware, although again, I'm speaking outside of my own experience.

I understand using "AI" as a shorthand for the CPU's logic as an opponent, but it would be pretty cool if we had "AI" that actually started to simulate human opponents. I hate playing the CPU but it's basically all I ever do based on circumstances.

FWIW, there is formation in the game based off Steve Spurrier's old Emory&Henry that used to also be in the old NCAAf series too. The shotgun formation that has three offensive linemen on the line and the tackles are lined up all the way out with the receivers. Anyway, I will call one of the pass plays in that formation and because the CPU will only put two defensive players in front of my three o-linemen, I immediately take off with a QB run instead of making a pass attempt, worth a lot of free yards with little resistance. I have done it at times to the point of abusing the play to see how the CPU responds. Eventually they catch on an put five defensive players on my three o-linemen. I don't know but I thought that was an example of AI I was seeing.

[pietasterp]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

FWIW, there is formation in the game based off Steve Spurrier's old Emory&Henry that used to also be in the old NCAAf series too. The shotgun formation that has three offensive linemen on the line and the tackles are lined up all the way out with the receivers. Anyway, I will call one of the pass plays in that formation and because the CPU will only put two defensive players in front of my three o-linemen, I immediately take off with a QB run instead of making a pass attempt, worth a lot of free yards with little resistance. I have done it at times to the point of abusing the play to see how the CPU responds. Eventually they catch on an put five defensive players on my three o-linemen. I don't know but I thought that was an example of AI I was seeing.

That's an interesting finding! I still think it's sort of based on a base 'algorithm' that's been layered upon over time (although I have no proof), but I suppose you could also argue that if that is the case, it's functionally no different from "AI" anyway, which itself isn't all that intelligent even with the ChatGPT's of the world.

[untakenid]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

My hypothesis for the last decade has been that the CPU calls plays on defense to "shut down" certain parts of the field for the user.


This is an overly-simplistic example, but imagine a 4x4 grid on the field like this:


4A 4B 4C 4D
3A 3B 3C 3D
2A 2B 2C 2D
1A 1B 1C 1D


Row 1A-1D is the line of scrimmage, row 4A-4D is the space behind the safeties. Columns 1A-4A and 1D-4D are the spaces between the hashes and the sidelines.



Almost always, the CPU assigns a combination of these zones as strong and others as weak. Something to note is that in these strong zones, the CPU players get huge stat buffs and your CPU teammates get nerfed, so if you've ever had a receiver 5 yards ahead of the DB just to have the DB pick the ball off with his back turned, that's probably why. If you've ever seen a 65 speed DT suddenly turn in to the Flash to tackle a 95 speed HB, that's probably why.



Another thing is that CPU pass rushers and your receivers are synced. If your receiver's route takes him to one of these strong zones, the QB will either get hit at the exact moment that receiver breaks on a route or clears a zone. Sometimes you may even notice the receivers running routes slower or breaking on them later than usual. Other times, you get the clairvoyant DB who just goes and stands in the receiver's route.



This "playcall" of the CPU is determined mostly by formation and personnel. Certain formations, like Wildcat Unbalanced, trigger the CPU to attack the middle (1B and 1C in the grid) which is why those jet sweeps and quick outside runs are so effective.



A lot of folks may disagree with my assessment, but thinking of it this way has worked for me for a long time.

[pietasterp]

Re: Good AI in Football Games Is Way Too Rare

The above seems to be spot-on in my experience with EA football. Anyway, it sure plays like that on the field (and has for quite some time).