Corner matchups

[zpq12]

By default, why does the Madden engine match up a number one corner vs the number two receiver?

[Instant C1a55ic]

Re: Corner matchups

By default, why does the Madden engine match up a number one corner vs the number two receiver?

You mean to post this over in Madden?

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[DonkeyJote]

Re: Corner matchups

A very, very long time ago (I'm talking Madden 03 era, and even earlier), by default the #1 receiver lined up on the right, and the #2 on the left. That's because Madden, as is the case now, did left/right for all the positions, rather than strong side/weak side as most teams do irl.

When they do positions, EA assumes the formation will be strong right, with the TE to that side. So, in the old days that left the Z/Flanker on the right by default and X/Split End on the left. In the 90s, a lot of WRs primarily played the Z, such as Jerry Rice. So, EA made the WR1 go to the right, which would make them the Z in a strong right formation.

Starting in the late 90s, and then really in the 00s, what teams really wanted in a WR changed. Everyone wanted the really tall, powerful, jump ball receiver. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress, etc. And those guys tended to play more X. Eventually (I don't remember what year, probably like 2010 or something) EA adapted and moved the WR1 to the left. But they didn't adjust the corners, so #1 corner still lines across from where EA put the #1 Receiver over 20 years ago.

I enjoy this game quite a bit, but my biggest disappointment is that they didn't take the time to fix these very basic level flaws. Would have been so nice to have Sam and Will Linebackers instead of Right and Left. Would have been nice to have NT, IDL, and Edge instead of DT, DE, and OLB, which mean very different things in odd fronts vs even. And in college especially, it'd have been nice to have a boundary and field corner, since that's how a lot of college teams do it with the wider hashes.

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[zpq12]

Re: Corner matchups

You mean to post this over in Madden?

Sent from my SM-F946U using Operation Sports mobile app

College Football 25 surely uses a version of the Madden engine, does it not?

[UtahUtes32]

Re: Corner matchups

By default, why does the Madden engine match up a number one corner vs the number two receiver?

I've heard that a larger percentage of passes go to the offenses right, which is a right-handed QB's natural passing direction. In Madden the #1CB lines up on the left (offenses right).

[TON1C]

Re: Corner matchups

A very, very long time ago (I'm talking Madden 03 era, and even earlier), by default the #1 receiver lined up on the right, and the #2 on the left. That's because Madden, as is the case now, did left/right for all the positions, rather than strong side/weak side as most teams do irl.

When they do positions, EA assumes the formation will be strong right, with the TE to that side. So, in the old days that left the Z/Flanker on the right by default and X/Split End on the left. In the 90s, a lot of WRs primarily played the Z, such as Jerry Rice. So, EA made the WR1 go to the right, which would make them the Z in a strong right formation.

Starting in the late 90s, and then really in the 00s, what teams really wanted in a WR changed. Everyone wanted the really tall, powerful, jump ball receiver. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress, etc. And those guys tended to play more X. Eventually (I don't remember what year, probably like 2010 or something) EA adapted and moved the WR1 to the left. But they didn't adjust the corners, so #1 corner still lines across from where EA put the #1 Receiver over 20 years ago.

I enjoy this game quite a bit, but my biggest disappointment is that they didn't take the time to fix these very basic level flaws. Would have been so nice to have Sam and Will Linebackers instead of Right and Left. Would have been nice to have NT, IDL, and Edge instead of DT, DE, and OLB, which mean very different things in odd fronts vs even. And in college especially, it'd have been nice to have a boundary and field corner, since that's how a lot of college teams do it with the wider hashes.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Having actual modern defensive positions, especially regarding DL/LB is my dream. I was actually able to do this via modding M24 by making MLBs an off-ball LB, DE was EDGE and DT was IDL. Then nobody was an OLB and I modified all of the playbooks too. Was super satisfying and a ton of fun seeing guys play in their proper positions, especially since these games unfortunately don’t flip the players on the field so they’re always in the same role, instead they just flip the roles. Maybe someday.

[pietasterp]

Re: Corner matchups

I've heard that a larger percentage of passes go to the offenses right, which is a right-handed QB's natural passing direction. In Madden the #1CB lines up on the left (offenses right).

A very, very long time ago (I'm talking Madden 03 era, and even earlier), by default the #1 receiver lined up on the right, and the #2 on the left. That's because Madden, as is the case now, did left/right for all the positions, rather than strong side/weak side as most teams do irl.

When they do positions, EA assumes the formation will be strong right, with the TE to that side. So, in the old days that left the Z/Flanker on the right by default and X/Split End on the left. In the 90s, a lot of WRs primarily played the Z, such as Jerry Rice. So, EA made the WR1 go to the right, which would make them the Z in a strong right formation.

Starting in the late 90s, and then really in the 00s, what teams really wanted in a WR changed. Everyone wanted the really tall, powerful, jump ball receiver. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Plaxico Burress, etc. And those guys tended to play more X. Eventually (I don't remember what year, probably like 2010 or something) EA adapted and moved the WR1 to the left. But they didn't adjust the corners, so #1 corner still lines across from where EA put the #1 Receiver over 20 years ago.

I enjoy this game quite a bit, but my biggest disappointment is that they didn't take the time to fix these very basic level flaws. Would have been so nice to have Sam and Will Linebackers instead of Right and Left. Would have been nice to have NT, IDL, and Edge instead of DT, DE, and OLB, which mean very different things in odd fronts vs even. And in college especially, it'd have been nice to have a boundary and field corner, since that's how a lot of college teams do it with the wider hashes.

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Good post (and good read!). Appreciate the history lesson.

There is an option (I think in the "Coaching" sub-menu in the playcalling screen by clicking in the R stick) to put your #1 rated corner on the #1 rated WR always, or your top "Speed" rated CB on the offense's top "Speed" WR, etc. I haven't tested if it actually works or not to be honest, but I've seen the options in there and messed around with them.

Having actual modern defensive positions, especially regarding DL/LB is my dream. I was actually able to do this via modding M24 by making MLBs an off-ball LB, DE was EDGE and DT was IDL. Then nobody was an OLB and I modified all of the playbooks too. Was super satisfying and a ton of fun seeing guys play in their proper positions, especially since these games unfortunately don’t flip the players on the field so they’re always in the same role, instead they just flip the roles. Maybe someday.

Word. Madden/CFB just need to re-think how defense is played in the game altogether. I think there's too much holdover from the 20-year-old versions of the game and none of it worked particularly well at the time, but it definitely doesn't work well now. Even simple things like who/how you control on defense should be re-evaluated/re-vamped.

[Spartan Warrior]

Re: Corner matchups

I believe under coaching adjustments you can change the matchups, whether you want guys on one side or the other (default), your best corner on their best receiver, your tallest corner on their tallest, and I can't remember what the other option is.

[Hooe]

Re: Corner matchups

A very, very long time ago (I'm talking Madden 03 era, and even earlier), by default the #1 receiver lined up on the right, and the #2 on the left.

Do you have any examples which illustrate this? Because here are videos of Madden 2001 (PS2) and Madden 97 (Genesis) which deploy depth chart WR1 at X (#80 Isaac Bruce for the Rams in Madden 2001, #88 Michael Irvin for the Cowboys in Madden 97). In every EA Sports football game I have ever played (Madden 97 and onward), the offense's default formation strength is to the right, which puts the X on the left, and WR1 deploys at X, so WR1 is on the left. If EA Sports did make a change at some point which moved WR1 from Z to X, it happened before Madden 97; I have no knowledge of Madden games before Madden 97.

Generally speaking, NFL defenses very rarely travel their cornerbacks to shadow specific receivers in real life, which is why the game generally doesn't do it. NFL defenses only travel their cornerbacks when they have a Revis / Sauce type elite cornerback. Some Madden games have enabled the "By OVR" WR-DB matchup coaching adjustments for CPU teams by default based on the OVR rating of the team's best cornerback (OVR 90 threshold); I do not know if Madden 25 or College Football 25 do this. Thinking about cornerback-receiver matchups in a best-on-best way isn't really accurate to how most modern defenses handle their game planning, which is why the EA Sports games generally don't do that (with specific exceptions).

As to CB1 being on the offense's right by default, Clint Oldenburg has mentioned in the past (I forget where, it was either here or Twitter) that the deployment of CB1 to the offense's right-hand side is a deliberate design choice based on EA Sports' NFL film study. And there's plenty of evidence available supporting that assertion as accurate. Notice that most NFL depth charts list "Left Cornerback" and "Right Cornerback" as separate positions. Both the Broncos and Jets both list Patrick Surtain II and Sauce Gardner respectively at specifically Left Cornerback; the defense's left is the offense's right side, and most offenses are right-handed. The Seahawks played Richard Sherman almost exclusively played Left Cornerback in their Cover 3 scheme.

Theoretically, the Z receiver (typically on the right, ex. Gun Doubles) is often off the line of scrimmage pre-snap and achieves a release off the line which is harder to disrupt by alignment, so if the skill you are optimizing for is mirroring ability and stickiness in man-to-man anywhere a receiver goes, you want your best guy defending the player with a better release off the line of scrimmage by alignment. Historically, the Z's side is also typically the two-receiver side when facing old-school multiple back sets such as Split Backs and I-Formation, so the cornerback with better zone eyes and pattern recognition is desirable on the frontside as well.

In college, teams travel their cornerbacks based on jersey number even less, if ever. They instead often designate one cornerback to the field (the wide side) and one to the boundary (the short side) and the boundary cornerbacks travel based which hash the ball is spotted on, which has nothing to do with the receivers. Unfortunately, EA Sports College Football 25 is not capable of deploying players based on field / boundary rules, but often cornerbacks are all similarly athletic enough to where this doesn't really matter.

[Spartan Warrior]

Re: Corner matchups

I definitely feel like I've seen "Field Corner" and "Boundary Corner" listed on college football depth charts. Makes sense with the hashmarks being so wide, you're covering a lot more space to the far side and on the short side you're going to have a lot more run support responsibilities.

Receiver positions historically have been "Flanker" and "Split End." The Split End was the receiver on the weak side of the formation who lined up on the line of scrimmage. That was typically your best receiver because they were going to get jammed coming off the line. The Flanker "flanked" the Tight End, lined up on the same side as them. That meant they lined up off the line and were tougher for the cornerback to jam.

Now the terminology tends to be X, Y, and Z Receiver. X is Split End, Y is Flanker, Z is Slot. EA adding the "Slot Receiver" position to the depth chart is nice because typically X, Y, and Z are treated as different positions and each has a different back up. In NCAA 14 you'd have to put your Slot Receiver third on the depth chart but in EA 25 I just think of the WR Depth Chart as the outside receivers and the Slot Receiver position as the inside receiver.

The addition of being able to set how you want your corners to move around is really nice. I know under Belichick the Patriots would typically put their best corner on the other team's second best receiver and leave them in isolated coverage, with the idea that their #2 corner would have safety help against the other team's best receiver.

One thing I miss from old Madden is being able to spotlight a particular receiver. You could tell your guys pre-snap that you want them to shade their coverage toward a particular player. I would always do that when going up against a Randy Moss, Terrell Owens type receiver. Maybe that is still in the game, I haven't looked at the pre-snap options closely enough.

[DLev4552]

Re: Corner matchups

One thing I miss from old Madden is being able to spotlight a particular receiver. You could tell your guys pre-snap that you want them to shade their coverage toward a particular player. I would always do that when going up against a Randy Moss, Terrell Owens type receiver. Maybe that is still in the game, I haven't looked at the pre-snap options closely enough.

Spotlight is still a pre-snap coverage adjustment option. Granted, I have no idea how effective it is. Triangle + X for Individual brings up the offense's receiver icons, and you can do it there.

[delspf]

Re: Corner matchups

For those CPU v CPU players, at the start of the game when you go to do fast/normal/slow sim speed, before that at the kickoff play selection, do coach adjustments. You can change it there

[ChaseB]

Re: Corner matchups

Do you have any examples which illustrate this? Because here are videos of Madden 2001 (PS2) and Madden 97 (Genesis) which deploy depth chart WR1 at X (#80 Isaac Bruce for the Rams in Madden 2001, #88 Michael Irvin for the Cowboys in Madden 97). In every EA Sports football game I have ever played (Madden 97 and onward), the offense's default formation strength is to the right, which puts the X on the left, and WR1 deploys at X, so WR1 is on the left. If EA Sports did make a change at some point which moved WR1 from Z to X, it happened before Madden 97; I have no knowledge of Madden games before Madden 97.

Generally speaking, NFL defenses very rarely travel their cornerbacks to shadow specific receivers in real life, which is why the game generally doesn't do it. NFL defenses only travel their cornerbacks when they have a Revis / Sauce type elite cornerback. Some Madden games have enabled the "By OVR" WR-DB matchup coaching adjustments for CPU teams by default based on the OVR rating of the team's best cornerback (OVR 90 threshold); I do not know if Madden 25 or College Football 25 do this. Thinking about cornerback-receiver matchups in a best-on-best way isn't really accurate to how most modern defenses handle their game planning, which is why the EA Sports games generally don't do that (with specific exceptions).

As to CB1 being on the offense's right by default, Clint Oldenburg has mentioned in the past (I forget where, it was either here or Twitter) that the deployment of CB1 to the offense's right-hand side is a deliberate design choice based on EA Sports' NFL film study. And there's plenty of evidence available supporting that assertion as accurate. Notice that most NFL depth charts list "Left Cornerback" and "Right Cornerback" as separate positions. Both the Broncos and Jets both list Patrick Surtain II and Sauce Gardner respectively at specifically Left Cornerback; the defense's left is the offense's right side, and most offenses are right-handed. The Seahawks played Richard Sherman almost exclusively played Left Cornerback in their Cover 3 scheme.

Theoretically, the Z receiver (typically on the right, ex. Gun Doubles) is often off the line of scrimmage pre-snap and achieves a release off the line which is harder to disrupt by alignment, so if the skill you are optimizing for is mirroring ability and stickiness in man-to-man anywhere a receiver goes, you want your best guy defending the player with a better release off the line of scrimmage by alignment. Historically, the Z's side is also typically the two-receiver side when facing old-school multiple back sets such as Split Backs and I-Formation, so the cornerback with better zone eyes and pattern recognition is desirable on the frontside as well.

In college, teams travel their cornerbacks based on jersey number even less, if ever. They instead often designate one cornerback to the field (the wide side) and one to the boundary (the short side) and the boundary cornerbacks travel based which hash the ball is spotted on, which has nothing to do with the receivers. Unfortunately, EA Sports College Football 25 is not capable of deploying players based on field / boundary rules, but often cornerbacks are all similarly athletic enough to where this doesn't really matter.

College does this, so I assume Madden still does it this year as well if you change the option in defensive adjustments.

[delspf]

Re: Corner matchups

For those CPU v CPU players, at the start of the game when you go to do fast/normal/slow sim speed, before that at the kickoff play selection, do coach adjustments. You can change it there

Actually think i found a bug. The adjustments don't stick.

I can set them a certain way for a series, come back from slow mode and the adjustments are back to default