2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

[talucchesi]

DHO actions are such a heavy element of today's game. I don't have data on this, but I feel every team in the league runs DHO actions as their freelance with their center at the top of the key. Also there are not enough freelances that incorporate dho actions. For example, only the nuggets freelance has DHO as the main source of offense but even that freelance is very limited.

This game needs to make it so that a dribble handoff naturally flows into a PNR. And you need to be able too set the defensive coverages so that they are the same as pnr. Including soft coverage, drop coverage, hard Hedge, over, under, etc. (also the coverages need to actually work, as we already know).

This game has needed a dho overhaul for a while now

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

DHO actions are such a heavy element of today's game. I don't have data on this, but I feel every team in the league runs DHO actions as their freelance with their center at the top of the key. Also there are not enough freelances that incorporate dho actions. For example, only the nuggets freelance has DHO as the main source of offense but even that freelance is very limited.

This game needs to make it so that a dribble handoff naturally flows into a PNR. And you need to be able too set the defensive coverages so that they are the same as pnr. Including soft coverage, drop coverage, hard Hedge, over, under, etc. (also the coverages need to actually work, as we already know).

This game has needed a dho overhaul for a while now

Yup! Game still runs like it's the 90s, focused on 1-on-1 defender battles instead of team ball.

It should be quite telling that there are zero badges related to DHOs, unless we're shoe-horning Slippery Off-Ball.

Take the Sacramento Kings w/ Domantas Sabonis for example. These goof balls at 2K think Sabonis is a post passing hub (Gold Post Playmaker last year).

Meanwhile....
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[talucchesi]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

Yup! Game still runs like it's the 90s, focused on 1-on-1 defender battles instead of team ball.

It should be quite telling that there are zero badges related to DHOs, unless we're shoe-horning Slippery Off-Ball.

Take the Sacramento Kings w/ Domantas Sabonis for example. These goof balls at 2K think Sabonis is a post passing hub (Gold Post Playmaker last year).

Meanwhile....
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gm728onmx9Q?si=hxI8C_YBGVGkmydG" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Him and Nikola are the poster children for this. Even adding moving screens into the game during these actions is essential

[MiracleMet718]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

There’s actually a ton of DHOs in the manual play calling, but as mentioned the issue is the big man doesn’t really set a screen. I run them all the time with KAT and Brunson and the biggest issue is that KAT just kind of stands there after handing it off but doesn’t do any sort of pick animation.

The CPU barely does any. It’s usually just pick and roll with a few weird DHOs that result in the same as mentioned above.

[talucchesi]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

There’s actually a ton of DHOs in the manual play calling, but as mentioned the issue is the big man doesn’t really set a screen. I run them all the time with KAT and Brunson and the biggest issue is that KAT just kind of stands there after handing it off but doesn’t do any sort of pick animation.

The CPU barely does any. It’s usually just pick and roll with a few weird DHOs that result in the same as mentioned above.

Yea, my issue is more with how it's executed in game. Playbook is actually fantastically realistic too what teams run in real life. The freelance need updating but I'll at least take the game medications being updated and the AI utilizing how to run the around as well as defend intelligently

[vetmin]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

I gave up on DHOs in 2K years ago. I always assumed I just sucked at them or something, but for me they always play out so clunkily that no advantage is gained. Oftentimes it’s even worse in that the clunkiness kinda breaks the flow of the play enough to where the defense can get set even better than if I had just abandoned the play pre-DHO and simply pulled up.

[Rori Daed]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

Do devs still visit this board? I agree, this ABSOLUTELY needs to be a focal point for next year. I think a lot of things are working great offensively, but this is one thing that's super important and still needs a good amount of work. We need better control over the player receiving the handoff, and the player handing off needs to do better to screen initially and then roll or fade naturally off of it instead of just standing there. I can still use them to decent effect sometimes by instantly calling for the pick right when I'm receiving the handoff, but it's certainly not ideal. Too much of a big part of NBA offense to be so clunky.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

Yea, my issue is more with how it's executed in game. Playbook is actually fantastically realistic too what teams run in real life. The freelance need updating but I'll at least take the game medications being updated and the AI utilizing how to run the around as well as defend intelligently

If they just added a simple button to press before the handoff that would call for screen, it would go a long way. Like if you are about to hand it off and press the LB/L1 button like you would to set a normal screen (just press instead of hold though), it would be a quick add to make it much more realistic and give you the option to screen or slip.

The only screens now seem to be accidental, although I find the ones with other screens free up the player to get open. Just need to on DHO screen to be a thing in game and we’ll be set.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

It's funny this these was made. I was in the middle of making a video about DHO. The current Strengths and the problems with the current system.

Look at this long thread I made last cycle. It shows a few version of it

https://x.com/jeebs9/status/1765664145939067084?t=swQn61C1WM_efqe8WJpxvA&s=19

This was 2K24 stuff. It still works really well. It's just the variety of the animations for me. If you use it in the correct inputs. It works understanding

https://x.com/jeebs9/status/1825524324771463428?t=isxWr-QA_I26hloaBvmtDA&s=19

They definitely have improved a lot of aspects. If you watch the above. Chris Webber doesn't just walk thru the defender. He gives a tiny brush screen.

This year they improved the way the receiver catch it. So now you can definitely shoot better jumpers off it. As detailed below.

https://youtu.be/bfGGA0BGKS4?si=uqE5zO_kFS4Vxe0L

There is entire speed boost you get from properly doing a DHO.

Where my problems lie are the animations. There are only 2-3. It's pretty bad. But the system works.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

Do devs still visit this board? I agree, this ABSOLUTELY needs to be a focal point for next year. I think a lot of things are working great offensively, but this is one thing that's super important and still needs a good amount of work. We need better control over the player receiving the handoff, and the player handing off needs to do better to screen initially and then roll or fade naturally off of it instead of just standing there. I can still use them to decent effect sometimes by instantly calling for the pick right when I'm receiving the handoff, but it's certainly not ideal. Too much of a big part of NBA offense to be so clunky.

I gave up on DHOs in 2K years ago. I always assumed I just sucked at them or something, but for me they always play out so clunkily that no advantage is gained. Oftentimes it’s even worse in that the clunkiness kinda breaks the flow of the play enough to where the defense can get set even better than if I had just abandoned the play pre-DHO and simply pulled up.

If they just added a simple button to press before the handoff that would call for screen, it would go a long way. Like if you are about to hand it off and press the LB/L1 button like you would to set a normal screen (just press instead of hold though), it would be a quick add to make it much more realistic and give you the option to screen or slip.

The only screens now seem to be accidental, although I find the ones with other screens free up the player to get open. Just need to on DHO screen to be a thing in game and we’ll be set.

It's so funny I made a thread years ago about all of this. They fixed some things. But definitely hide it from people [emoji28]

[talucchesi]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

Do devs still visit this board? I agree, this ABSOLUTELY needs to be a focal point for next year. I think a lot of things are working great offensively, but this is one thing that's super important and still needs a good amount of work. We need better control over the player receiving the handoff, and the player handing off needs to do better to screen initially and then roll or fade naturally off of it instead of just standing there. I can still use them to decent effect sometimes by instantly calling for the pick right when I'm receiving the handoff, but it's certainly not ideal. Too much of a big part of NBA offense to be so clunky.

Couldn't have said this any better. There are so many fantastic things about this game, but a DHO revamp for next year is a necessity. After that I think it's a revamp of how the hedge defender on off ball screens react/defend and being able to hard hedge, deny, drop cover that defender as well

[jeebs9]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

Couldn't have said this any better. There are so many fantastic things about this game, but a DHO revamp for next year is a necessity. After that I think it's a revamp of how the hedge defender on off ball screens react/defend and being able to hard hedge, deny, drop cover that defender as well

Well there are defensive options in the defense menu. Have you used them before? You can so a lot of the above.

They put the options in last cycle I think.

Here is other thread I made last cycle. This guy was playing off. But he was playing off ball as Center. CPU gets caught in the re screen action. Wide Open Klay

https://x.com/jeebs9/status/1765664145939067084?t=rRsC2P-QB6pnAv92QpdhTQ&s=19

Same thing here. But it's Curry

https://x.com/jeebs9/status/1765664182454677925?t=e-8ZrzCP5OUQQL5x30nsXg&s=19

He finally steps up to contest, but it's too late.

https://x.com/jeebs9/status/1765664220270428317?t=pwwrvAdt3KBg6k5ad8v3UQ&s=19

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[MiracleMet718]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

It's funny this these was made. I was in the middle of making a video about DHO. The current Strengths and the problems with the current system.

Look at this long thread I made last cycle. It shows a few version of it

https://x.com/jeebs9/status/1765664145939067084?t=swQn61C1WM_efqe8WJpxvA&s=19

This was 2K24 stuff. It still works really well. It's just the variety of the animations for me. If you use it in the correct inputs. It works understanding

https://x.com/jeebs9/status/1825524324771463428?t=isxWr-QA_I26hloaBvmtDA&s=19

They definitely have improved a lot of aspects. If you watch the above. Chris Webber doesn't just walk thru the defender. He gives a tiny brush screen.

This year they improved the way the receiver catch it. So now you can definitely shoot better jumpers off it. As detailed below.

https://youtu.be/bfGGA0BGKS4?si=uqE5zO_kFS4Vxe0L

There is entire speed boost you get from properly doing a DHO.

Where my problems lie are the animations. There are only 2-3. It's pretty bad. But the system works.

This sums up what I’m talking about. I use them all the time with the Knicks but the animations are weird and limited. The screens seem more like just two players colliding without any actual screen animation most times.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

This sums up what I’m talking about. I use them all the time with the Knicks but the animations are weird and limited. The screens seem more like just two players colliding without any actual screen animation most times.

I've already spoken to the people in charge any it. Something is in the works. The biggest examples were tricky between the leg animations for the passer. Or the defender cutting off the pass. Currently the animation can't be broken up by a defender. It's usually a foul.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[MiracleMet718]

Re: 2k desperately needs to revamp their dribble handoff system

I've already spoken to the people in charge any it. Something is in the works. The biggest examples were tricky between the leg animations for the passer. Or the defender cutting off the pass. Currently the animation can't be broken up by a defender. It's usually a foul.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

That’s awesome to hear. The game is great, it’s just cleaning up little animations like that which will make it so much better.

That and cleaning up the legacy issues in MyNBA (injury issue) and updating some of the rule changes (two-way contract rules). Gameplay is on point though.