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Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

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Old 02-27-2008, 01:00 PM   #9
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

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Originally Posted by JoeRyan33
I know some people who play racing games with the controller on their consoles. Totally defeats the point.

GTA5 is gorgeous, photo realistic, and a big reason why I got a PS3. Still, nothing beats the arcade scene, Daytona or Sega Rally with your buddies in a packed arcade.
I personally enjoy racing games with or without a wheel. (So add me to your list.)

In fact, I would say that playing on console (360) with a wheel is more work than it's worth. (Cost, setup, calibration, etc.) Being able to control the throttle and brake using the triggers gives you an advantage vs. trying to use the flimsy 360 pedals.

On the other hand, PC sims are 100% better when you use a wheel that's well calibrated and configured. And for the most part, PC games give you more options to set it up the way you want it, plus you have a wider variety of hardware options.

But, to each their own.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:43 PM   #10
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

I think console publishers are headed in the wrong direction. Maybe it comes from days gone by when those classic arcade races where simple and fun and sold games.

Well, you can't just cast you line in the general pond of gamers with any genre nowdays and expect to do well. FPS developers don't try to incorporate some NBA twist into their game to the attention of basket ball fans. Madden doesn't add platforming missions in the hopes of pleasing that audience. So why is the racing genre trying to homognized there games into these something for everyone all over the map things that end up pleasing nobody including the racing fans they should be targeting.

Racing is first and formost a sport so why has so few games touched on this aspect? How come I can play an entire season in Madden or NBA 2K but pick up any racing game and you play 3 or 4 racings in a row and that's a level. You don't buy cars, build cars, build a team, hire anyone, design anything or have any type of season where you build rivalries and relationships. You build drama.

Another area that almost every sports games requires nowdays is online user created leagues and tournaments. What racing game provides that? Most don't even provide any type of worth stat tracking let alone league tracking.

What about real rules, real race day stuff and really making the person feel like they are there - at some big event. Commentators, TV views, behind the scene stuff. This stuff is manditory in a sport game if it wants to survive but racing games just ignore it and give you some sterile feel. What about winning and podiums and celebrations and all that.

Now I am not saying all games have to be like this - no. On the contrary because even though there is MLB2K there is also The Biggs. So there is room for both but I think the main problem is they are casting this net in the general populace and hoping to gain fans instead of getting the customers that are fans first and growing from there.
 
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:08 PM   #11
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRyan33
I know some people who play racing games with the controller on their consoles. Totally defeats the point.

GTA5 is gorgeous, photo realistic, and a big reason why I got a PS3. Still, nothing beats the arcade scene, Daytona or Sega Rally with your buddies in a packed arcade.
since most racing games for consoles are designed with the idea that a controller is standard, most don't provide an incentive to play with a wheel.

for example, forza 2 players who used a wheel were actually at a disadvantage to controller users. Why pay more for a wheel when it doesn't give you an advantage, but also actually makes you worse?
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:41 AM   #12
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick
I think console publishers are headed in the wrong direction. Maybe it comes from days gone by when those classic arcade races where simple and fun and sold games.

Well, you can't just cast you line in the general pond of gamers with any genre nowdays and expect to do well. FPS developers don't try to incorporate some NBA twist into their game to the attention of basket ball fans. Madden doesn't add platforming missions in the hopes of pleasing that audience. So why is the racing genre trying to homognized there games into these something for everyone all over the map things that end up pleasing nobody including the racing fans they should be targeting.

Racing is first and formost a sport so why has so few games touched on this aspect? How come I can play an entire season in Madden or NBA 2K but pick up any racing game and you play 3 or 4 racings in a row and that's a level. You don't buy cars, build cars, build a team, hire anyone, design anything or have any type of season where you build rivalries and relationships. You build drama.

Another area that almost every sports games requires nowdays is online user created leagues and tournaments. What racing game provides that? Most don't even provide any type of worth stat tracking let alone league tracking.

What about real rules, real race day stuff and really making the person feel like they are there - at some big event. Commentators, TV views, behind the scene stuff. This stuff is manditory in a sport game if it wants to survive but racing games just ignore it and give you some sterile feel. What about winning and podiums and celebrations and all that.

Now I am not saying all games have to be like this - no. On the contrary because even though there is MLB2K there is also The Biggs. So there is room for both but I think the main problem is they are casting this net in the general populace and hoping to gain fans instead of getting the customers that are fans first and growing from there.
Man you summed up my thoughts 100 percent. I wish console developers would try to go after racing fans first then use that core group to expand their base. The 360 is crowded with fictional racing games, and with toca turning in that direction I see no real world racing game on the horizon.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:49 AM   #13
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick
I think console publishers are headed in the wrong direction. Maybe it comes from days gone by when those classic arcade races where simple and fun and sold games. (Snip rest of post.)
You're spot-on, Fish. Very well said.

Some PC racing sims come with these features, and the mod community also has provided some things like TV camera views, telemetry, etc. Plus most players who drive PC sims put primary focus on the driving and racing model, and the developers of PC racing sims have done a good job to heed the desires of gamers in the community.

Take care,
PK
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:52 AM   #14
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

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Originally Posted by pk500
You're spot-on, Fish. Very well said.

Some PC racing sims come with these features, and the mod community also has provided some things like TV camera views, telemetry, etc. Plus most players who drive PC sims put primary focus on the driving and racing model, and the developers of PC racing sims have done a good job to heed the desires of gamers in the community.

Take care,
PK
I would love a racing game with a great career mode (ie. have a team, own cars, switch teams as a driver, start your own team, whatever). I know I'll never be a fully sim driver cause I'm just not that good (or that into it), but I would like a better single player experience. I'm tired of the open world "get into random races" type game.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:56 AM   #15
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

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Originally Posted by mgoblue
I would love a racing game with a great career mode (ie. have a team, own cars, switch teams as a driver, start your own team, whatever). I know I'll never be a fully sim driver cause I'm just not that good (or that into it), but I would like a better single player experience. I'm tired of the open world "get into random races" type game.
i dont remember what NASCAR game for ps2 it was but it was a great career mode. You had your team, and had to buy your cars and engines and it took a certain amount of weeks to build things up, and you also had to do R&D to get faster. I played so much of that. Now there isnt even a career mode or anything like that, what happened from that point to now. oh yeah exclusive rights.


Rfactor is set up for this it is just that no mod team has made this happen, you have to buy parts and upgrades for your car, and run seasons to earn money. But there isnt that much of a demand for offline racing compared to the online side of things in PC.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:03 AM   #16
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Re: Next Generation: Is Racing Gaming On Its Last Lap?

Patrick hit upon a sad fact of the console racing sim climate these days. Even when EA and other major console developers veered toward non-licensed arcadish racing games, you always could count on Codemasters to create excellent, licensed console racing sims, such as the TOCA and Colin McRae series.

Now even the Codies have turned to the dark side, turning CMR into essentially Rallisport Challenge 3 with DIRT and apparently heading toward a Project Gotham-Need For Speed hybrid with the TOCA series. Very sad.

There are four factors that I think seriously hurt console sim racing this decade. In no particular order:

1. EA getting the NASCAR license. NASCAR is the most popular form of motorsport in the U.S., by far, so NASCAR video games also will be the most popular licensed racing games in the States, too. At the dawn of this decade, gamers could choose between Hasbro's NASCAR Heat and EA's NASCAR Thunder series for consoles. NASCAR Heat was a very, very good console sim, while Thunder was horrible. Then EA bought exclusive NASCAR rights, shutting out NASCAR Heat.

EA had a promising start with NASCAR 2005, as the driving model was decent, and the addition of the career ladder with Modifieds, Trucks and the Busch Series was a very welcome addition. But EA has done nothing with the driving and racing models for its NASCAR franchise since NASCAR 2005, instead adding stupid features like Total Team Control. The series is atrophying severely.

2. The popularity and financial success of the Burnout series. Make no mistake: Burnout is a really fun series, even if EA is running out of ideas on how to sustain it with each subsequent sequel. But Burnout is pure arcade racing, and the gaming industry is full of imitators. So when Burnout almost single-handedly revived arcade racing when the Ridge Racer and Need For Speed series were in the doldrums at the turn of this decade, other developers jumped back on the arcade racing bandwagon.

3. The "Fast and the Furious" factor. "The Fast and the Furious" exposed the world to the growing tuner/drifting culture and its popularity in the coveted 18-34 male demographic. Gaming companies weren't blind to that phenomenon, either. Nearly every gaming company developed and released some sort of arcadish racing game that put more of an emphasis on car customization and street racing with tuner cars instead of licensed race cars on real tracks, whether it was Midnight Club, Need For Speed Underground or other games.

4. The continued, inexplicable success of the Gran Turismo series. The original Gran Turismo is one of the greatest racing games ever, as it revolutionized what gamers could expect from a console racing game. Excellent physics, great graphics, a ton of mechanical customization and a huge stable of cars. But the game hasn't progressed one iota since its release in 1998. It still has brain-dead AI, horrible racing and an overemphasis on car tuning and setup instead of racing. Yet the game still sells like condoms to sailors on shore leave, and gamers still drool over every upcoming GT release.

Again, gaming developers and publishers are lemmings. So other major players started to march in lockstep and developed GT-clone racing games, such as Sega GT and Forza. These games at least had licensed cars and licensed tracks, but they put more of an emphasis on car collecting and tuning instead of balls-out racing, just like the patriarch they all strove to emulate, the Gran Turismo series.

Take care,
PK
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