FIFA 10 Preview

[Murkurial]

Quote: Originally Posted by Logic Doctor

You guys with these page long lists of issues you have about FIFA are seriously hyper critical. I'd also like to bet you have no experience or knowledge of how you actually build a game of FIFA's complexity. While no game will ever be perfect I think we can at least feel confident about the direction FIFA's going, the positives FIFA offers and the commitment to fix ongoing issues by the FIFA development team

I forgot that this wasn't a forum to discuss issues with sports videogames. Specifically games that preach realism.

I keep asking, but nobody answer the question about what you think about the guys who've been preaching realism for Madden and now having Ian come here and actually talk to them, agree with them, and try to make sweeping changes to the game? Are they also hyper critical? And should they just shut up because ya now...Madden is just a game?

And to the last point, you're happy with the super fast speed and all the other ridiculous things that are possible in this game that I've mentioned in previous posts?

In 08 the slower pace made passing (and consequently your midfield) more of a factor, and now in 09 you could just as easily pass up to Ronaldo and just run, run and run. MK47 mentioned it as well. Right after FIFA 08 and with the introduction of Euro 2008 you could see a change in the direction of the game. More towards fun, and less towards realism.

Now if you only play offline against the CPU on a certain difficulty, usually Professional and below, then sure, it might be easy to pass around the midfield but by the same token, they normally don't press at all or even leave there spot on the field until you get close to them. At that point, they too also employ the run straight at a guy method of dispossession and knock you over.

4-4 games, like the two games that 'Pool played against both Arsenal and Spurs this past season, are entirely possible, but they're rare. In FIFA they happen all the time. You can have them, especially if people don't play defense, but you should also be able to slow the game down and dictate the flow of the game, which is sometimes possible if your opponent doesn't use the pressure and aggression to no end. But that's all FIFA 09 is for the most part.

And to be honest, drinking the David Rutter kool-aid might not be the best idea. He seems to say what he thinks people want to hear and while I think there are some guys on the team who genuinely want to make a realistic game, there's a clear shift from tactical to arcade-style play.

Here's a question that might, for me, explain a bit. First have you played FIFA 08? And if you have and can recall taking FKs do you see any issue with the change in the flight of the ball from FIFA 08 to FIFA 09?

To that emboldened point, I don't have any experience making videogames. But I do have eyes and I did play FIFA 08 (produced by Joe Booth) and I can see a CLEAR difference in both the speed and overall tactical nature of both games. A lot of people can see this shift. Simply building on 08 would be fine, but the simple fact that they are now slowing the game down again (when it didn't need speeding up in the first place) kind of points to them making a mistake.

It's also no coincidence that one the game sped up to the point that end-to-end was the only way to play online, suddenly FIFA 09 is garnering critical acclaim and those who normally don't care for soccer, play it all the time apparently. That might tell you a little bit right there.

And you should probably stop making it seem like I'm the ONLY one that feels this way. I've told you where to go if you wanna read up on a some of the other complaints. These aren't HIGH STANDARDS at all. I'm not asking for everyone's hair and face to be accurate. I'm not asking for blades of grass to be flutter in the wind and be clearly discernable. I'm not asking for crazy **** like kits getting dirty, better texture on the shirt, authentic Premier League lettering, player breath showing on cold days.

Something simple like, if a guy run at you like an ******* and leaves space to pass to your man, I would like to be able to pass it to him with little to no problem. There really is too much to enumerate here but that's just one small problem. Offline I can't really get into but compare it to last-gen FIFA (and it has nothing to do with the engine as MM is simply options, stat-tracking, realism of fixtures, tournaments, etc.) it's sorely lacking.

As for FIFA being the most realistic experience to date, I think if you go back to what 08 did you might change your mind. Sure players are marginally more responsive, but on the whole they just made the game faster overall.

[Mo]

I understand what your saying Murk, we don't get the type of interaction on Fifa board as compare to the Madden board.
I think its mostly because Madden is a basically a US game, while Fifa/soccer is a global.(hopefully that makes some sense)

But these board do have interaction with fifa developers via team leaders, there threads here that allow the memebr to ask question via proxy. Make sure to post any issue any you have there, so that future edition can fixed them.

[stilts1844]

Saw a video where Rutter said that chip shots were "cheating" in this build, as they've added the code for keepers being more aggressive but not for going back on chipped shots yet, but that this will be in the next build, so pretty sure that's nothing to worry about

[~LiverpoolRed~]

Great preview!

[Qb]

Murkurial, you make some very good points. But please refrain from insulting those of us who do post in this forum by insinuating that we don't grasp soccer because we don't post with latent hostility towards EA/FIFA. I think many of us agree with you that 08 was a better all-around experience and my 360 would back that up in the number of hours it spun each game.

In summary, we'd all like to hear what you have to offer, but we can do without being talked down to...

[southernbelle]

nuckles and merkurial - only real problem with your post is high-horse approach to the rest of us... you insult the fans of the video game as being less passionate, less informed, and less experienced in football.

all games have their critics. dont buy the game, which you probably won't. and i do hear what you are saying about madden. but there is a huge difference between madden and FIFA. what makes football the greatest game in the world is the free form aspect of the game as well as the creativity involved at the macro (team) and micro (player) level. why they call it the beautiful game and its players referred to as "artists." the cominbation of these factors make it a very iterative and nuanced game... more so than ANY sport out there. american football has plays, which basically means 10 seconds of action then a reset. baseball and cricket... obvious.

my point is that to translate such an iterative and nuanced game into a video game requires very detailed AI code. exponentially more detailed than most sporting games, i would guess. but its what we have. i would love a true sim that allowed me to build up play, detect weaknesses, and set ups, real fatigue *which requires real managerial decisions*, and we are not even talking manager mode yet! what about form? this si huge part of real footie....

i do think that football games should not be yearly price grabs. give fifa team 2-3 years to make a great game (basically what WE did!) and give paid for roster updates and some patches.

do you make it old trafford every year?

[Bahnzo]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qb

Murkurial, you make some very good points. But please refrain from insulting those of us who do post in this forum by insinuating that we don't grasp soccer because we don't post with latent hostility towards EA/FIFA. I think many of us agree with you that 08 was a better all-around experience and my 360 would back that up in the number of hours it spun each game. In summary, we'd all like to hear what you have to offer, but we can do without being talked down to...

Agreed. I actually agree with many of his points about the game, but his message delivery system is flawed.......

I played almost 1000 games of 08 online. And less than 50 of 09. For whatever reason, EA took the great advancement that was 08 and turned it into an arcade version. Very disappointing. It's nothing but a mad dash up and down the field with super defenders.

The fact is this....EA sells more copies of FIFA than Madden, which is the only true feedback they listen to. If it's selling lots, then they figure they are doing something right. All you have to do is go back a few years when PES/WE was outselling FIFA and forced EA to rethink their game. I'm holding out hope for 10, but honestly if it's just 09 with some "back of the box" features, then it won't be a good game of soccer and I'll have to hope PES continues it's improvement.

[KG]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bahnzo

Agreed. I actually agree with many of his points about the game, but his message delivery system is flawed....... I played almost 1000 games of 08 online. And less than 50 of 09. For whatever reason, EA took the great advancement that was 08 and turned it into an arcade version. Very disappointing. It's nothing but a mad dash up and down the field with super defenders. The fact is this....EA sells more copies of FIFA than Madden, which is the only true feedback they listen to. If it's selling lots, then they figure they are doing something right. All you have to do is go back a few years when PES/WE was outselling FIFA and forced EA to rethink their game. I'm holding out hope for 10, but honestly if it's just 09 with some "back of the box" features, then it won't be a good game of soccer and I'll have to hope PES continues it's improvement.

I agree with some of his points too but I disagree with his notion of EA marketing FIFA as a sim. Yes, they call it "the most realistic game out" but I think that is because of all the licenses like someone else mentioned. I think the notion of a true "sim" footy game would turn a lot of casual gamers off. There needs to be that balance of sim and fun or ways for the sim crowd to tune the game towards their liking.

A lot of '09's problems online were because of the game speed and the 5 minute ranked matches (halves). It is impossible to expect a realistic game (flow, pace, tactics, etc...) in a match consisting of 5 min halves. This is the reason why I don't play ranked matches any more but defer to 10 min halves on slow speed vs a fellow OS'er. We even tried a few matches on manual passing and we got manageable scores (2-0, 1-0, etc...) and realistic shots on goal and target.

Offline it's possible but you're dead on about one thing, pressure. Pressure needs to be toned down immensly. You shouldn't have to constantly pound the "2nd defender" button nor should the CPU chase you around the pitch.

FIFA still has a lot of work to do but I'll reserve my judgement on '10 until the demo and retail versions come out.