NHL 15 - Top Rated Left Wingers

[meep316]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sheba2011

Any player who scores 400 goals in his first 9 seasons is a one of the best at his position regardless of your thoughts on him. It's easy to say Patrick Kane/Justin Williams is a better player when they play on two of the best teams in the NHL (even though Ovie is a better pure goal scorer than both). Put either of those guys on the Caps and put Ovie on the Hawks/Kings and you would be praising him. I would take Ovie on the Bruins in a heartbeat and I would give up every player except Bergeron and Rask to get him. He is a rare talent in the NHL.

He has the highest skill, and talent, but to say he's the best player, is wrong. He's not even close. You can't use the "team game" thing for Kane and Williams and then ignore what Ovechkin's teammates and system do for him.

Kane and Williams are two of the greatest playoff performers of our generation, maybe the greatest. lol at comparing frigging Ovechkin to them. Ovechkin's playoff stats aren't bad, but he is frequently benched in the playoffs because his coaches don't trust him on the ice. Especially in the Bruins series, he barely played.

I'm not saying everyone has to be Patrice Bergeron and play that kind of two way game. But Ovechkin actually hurts his team as much as he helps it, which is quite a feat considering all of the goals he scores. I hate when people use this word, but he is a "bum". He fits in perfectly with the Capitals though, they will never win anything either. Their owner is one of the biggest idiots in the league.

[Sheba2011]

Quote: Originally Posted by meep316

He has the highest skill, and talent, but to say he's the best player, is wrong. He's not even close. You can't use the "team game" thing for Kane and Williams and then ignore what Ovechkin's teammates and system do for him. Kane and Williams are two of the greatest playoff performers of our generation, maybe the greatest. lol at comparing frigging Ovechkin to them. Ovechkin's playoff stats aren't bad, but he is frequently benched in the playoffs because his coaches don't trust him on the ice. Especially in the Bruins series, he barely played. I'm not saying everyone has to be Patrice Bergeron and play that kind of two way game. But Ovechkin actually hurts his team as much as he helps it, which is quite a feat considering all of the goals he scores. I hate when people use this word, but he is a "bum". He fits in perfectly with the Capitals though, they will never win anything either. Their owner is one of the biggest idiots in the league.

I lost you at Justin Williams being one of the greatest playoff performers of our generation or greatest ever. Williams has 78 points in 115 playoff games, Ovie has 61 points in 58 playoff games. Williams had two great seasons in the playoffs (2013/14 and 2005/06) outside of that he has been good in post season play but not in the discussion for greatest of our generation and definitely not greatest ever. As much as I don't like him I would put Sidney Crosby in that discussion before Williams.

[meep316]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sheba2011

I lost you at Justin Williams being one of the greatest playoff performers of our generation or greatest ever. Williams has 78 points in 115 playoff games, Ovie has 61 points in 58 playoff games. Williams had two great seasons in the playoffs (2013/14 and 2005/06) outside of that he has been good in post season play but not in the discussion for greatest of our generation and definitely not greatest ever. As much as I don't like him I would put Sidney Crosby in that discussion before Williams.

You are nothing but a blind stat watcher if you don't think that Justin Williams is one of the best postseason players of all time. I'm not even going to bother to respond to you because your opinion is just so ignorant.

lol at Crosby. He feasts on bubble teams in the first round, pads his stats so they look decent, then disappears when met with any resistance whatsoever. One of the most overrated players to ever play.

[Sheba2011]

Quote: Originally Posted by meep316

You are nothing but a blind stat watcher if you don't think that Justin Williams is one of the best postseason players of all time. I'm not even going to bother to respond to you because your opinion is just so ignorant. lol at Crosby. He feasts on bubble teams in the first round, pads his stats so they look decent, then disappears when met with any resistance whatsoever. One of the most overrated players to ever play.

My opinion is ignorant because I don't think a guy with 2 good playoff performances and two where he completely disappeared is one of the greatest of all time?

No I am someone who has been watching Hockey all my life and I don't put two good playoff performances into the same category as guys like Gordie Howe, Guy Lafleur, Steve Yzerman, Brian Trottier, Patrick Roy and Wayne Gretzky among others. I wouldn't even put Williams in the top 25 playoff performers of all time. Patrick Kane on the other hand is a different story.

[meep316]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sheba2011

My opinion is ignorant because I don't think a guy with 2 good playoff performances and two where he completely disappeared is one of the greatest of all time? No I am someone who has been watching Hockey all my life and I don't put two good playoff performances into the same category as guys like Gordie Howe, Guy Lafleur, Steve Yzerman, Brian Trottier, Patrick Roy and Wayne Gretzky among others. I wouldn't even put Williams in the top 25 playoff performers of all time. Patrick Kane on the other hand is a different story.

Originally I didn't say of all time, I just said of our generation. But then I felt like I had to take it to another hyperbolic level to illustrate my point. Right now, there are very, very few guys I would take over Justin Williams if I had a playoff series starting tomorrow, and Alexander Ovechkin is for sure NOT one of them.

[Sheba2011]

Quote: Originally Posted by meep316

Originally I didn't say of all time, I just said of our generation. But then I felt like I had to take it to another hyperbolic level to illustrate my point. Right now, there are very, very few guys I would take over Justin Williams if I had a playoff series starting tomorrow, and Alexander Ovechkin is for sure NOT one of them.

That is your opinion you are entitled to it. My opinion if Ovie was on a team that was 4 lines deep (like LA and Chicago are) he would have multiple Cup wins by now. You have a deep hatred of Ovie so you obviously don't agree. Personally I have no feeling either way for Williams, I think he is a good player. He is clearly one of your favorite players so you think he is a great player. I feel the same way about Patrice Bergeron, who I would take in a playoff series over any forward in the NHL.

[meep316]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sheba2011

That is your opinion you are entitled to it. My opinion if Ovie was on a team that was 4 lines deep (like LA and Chicago are) he would have multiple Cup wins by now. You have a deep hatred of Ovie so you obviously don't agree. Personally I have no feeling either way for Williams, I think he is a good player. He is clearly one of your favorite players so you think he is a great player. I feel the same way about Patrice Bergeron, who I would take in a playoff series over any forward in the NHL.

Williams isn't one of my favorite players, I like him a lot, but I wouldn't say he's one of my favorites.

The thing is, when comparing Williams and Ovechkin, there are different standards. Williams at his salary, is expected to be part of an ensemble cast of scorers. And he does that very well, and always ALWAYS seems to show up when it matters most. He is on a better team than Ovechkin's, but Williams is a HUGE reason why his team is better.

Ovechkin is never going to be a guy who is on a team with 4 deep lines like the Kings, Hawks, or Bruins. He makes too much money for them to build a team like that around him. But because he is so skilled, he is relied on to make up that difference with how much more skilled he is. And for many reasons, he has been unable to step up and do that. The problem with him, in a nutshell, is that he doesn't have IT. The skill isn't enough if you are a loser, and he is a loser.

The Capitals haven't been very good the last couple of years, but there have been plenty of years where they have run roughshod over the league in the regular season, only to fold like a wet paper bag in the playoffs.

I would also take Bergeron over anyone in the NHL if I had a playoff series starting tomorrow, but Toews and Kane are right there. Toews and Kane have played on some great teams, but they have LEAD those teams. They are the biggest reasons why those teams are so great.

Guys like Bergeron, Krejci, Toews, Kane, Williams, Kopitar, Richards, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. might not put up the points that Ovechkin does, but they will die to win. Ovechkin will not. I would even put Stamkos in that category, even though he's only gotten to the ECF.

I just hate Ovechkin being shoved down people's throats as the best player in the NHL, he's not even close. Jonathan Toews is the best player in the NHL. Ovechkin might be the most offensively talented, but best player and most talented (let alone if your talent is one dimensional) are not mutually exclusive. Those two terms mean very, very different things. So it's just annoying for me to see him as the number 1 LW in the game.

Although the ratings are really all over the place anyway, and my feelings on the EA NHL series in general are well documented on here. I haven't checked this but I saw someone say that Crosby has a higher defensive awareness than Bergeron...

[BearishRiggs]

100% agreed with above post. There's a big difference between the best goalscorer and the best player. Ovechkin is the best goalscorer, but I wouldn't want to ever build a team around him.

But to play devil's advocate, you're comparing Ovie to a bunch of the best centers in hockey. I personally don't see the issue with him being the best LW in the game. His skill-set is extremely unique, and his main flaws come in the form of lack of hockey sense, effort, and his defensive deficiencies. Most of these things don't factor into an overall rating.