Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

[kyle81]

Quote: Originally Posted by canes21

Because it is about stick skills more than front office skills so the idea is to allow duplicate players and the more skilled guy should win. Personally my biggest beef with it all was the playstyle of the games. The first game I watched should have started with a 3 and out, but instead we had a failed 4th down attempt at a player's own 30 yard line that led to a score. A drive either ended in a turnover or points every series I watched. This is what the masses want I guess, but I would rather watch two guys play a simulation slugfest and punt 15 times than what I did witness.

I'm with you, but part of the issue is that there isn't a lot of time. You kind of just want as many possessions as possible. Punting when 50k is on the line is a hard thing to do.

[therealsmallville]

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

I think it could be done by using historical players to give it a "real" feel. Those players should own their own rights (like Montana) but maybe can't be associated with a team they played for. Call it "legends of the gridiron" and you need maybe 10 guys per position that guys can choose form when assembling their teams, because EA is already making ratings not matter in competitive it would be easy. As for wanting to replicate what they see, that is true in some modes, but I don't believe it to be true in competitive as seen by their play style. They want to win over everything and a competitor could produce that. If a new game came out that was really built around user skill and offered large cash prizes year one out of the gate you would capture a share from the jump. Those guys who play both games competitively would be your best promoters.

Who would host it, though? I know a lot of people who turn on NFL Network (or ESPN) in the morning and leave it running all day. Madden Championship goes on NFL Network and they have an instant viewer base, which also means easy advertisers/sponsors and easy money for the Network.

If the game was generic, NFLN won't show it. ESPN probably won't see the revenue in it, so they are out. Which leaves channels like maybe Spike TV? Or possibly only a streaming solution ala Twitch or Youtube? I'd love to see a generic game if it played fantastically and had lots of customization, but using it for esports is just a non-starter when we're talking about money, imo. The winner of Madden might get 100k, but that's not much compared to the exposure and revenue they & the NFLN get by doing it in the first place.

Just my .02, and I could be wrong of course.



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[OhMrHanky]

Quote: Originally Posted by kyle81

I'm with you, but part of the issue is that there isn't a lot of time. You kind of just want as many possessions as possible. Punting when 50k is on the line is a hard thing to do.

Yeah, that's the tricky part and why I don't mind them doing that. Not that I watch these things all the time, lol, but I do catch em every once in awhile because I'm curious if there's still cheese, or maybe the top player is actually playing with no cheese or whatnot. That's why, for a true competition of video game 'football,' it should be 15 min qtrs with acc clock around 16) to better mimic huddle time and getting to the line. This would limit ridiculous hot routing as well and be more about strategy. Although, someone can still run no huddle, of course, but I get my meaning. If they played 15 min qtrs and actually had time to comeback, I'd think you'd see more true football strategy such as punting on 4th and 10 from your own 20 instead of going for it. And, I think it would punish people more who go for it on ridiculous 4th downs. It could actually play out like a real NFL game. Now, don't get me wrong, people don't want to watch a single 2 hr game. Lol. I understand that. But, to be fair/honest, I suppose that's the difference between playing 'madden' and playing 'football'. If you're going to play an entire 'game' of video game 'football,' u should play 15 min qtrs. If they have esports for The Show, do they only play 3 innings? Or, do they play the full 9, u know?


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[T4VERTS]

Quote: Originally Posted by therealsmallville

Who would host it, though? I know a lot of people who turn on NFL Network (or ESPN) in the morning and leave it running all day. Madden Championship goes on NFL Network and they have an instant viewer base, which also means easy advertisers/sponsors and easy money for the Network. If the game was generic, NFLN won't show it. ESPN probably won't see the revenue in it, so they are out. Which leaves channels like maybe Spike TV? Or possibly only a streaming solution ala Twitch or Youtube? I'd love to see a generic game if it played fantastically and had lots of customization, but using it for esports is just a non-starter when we're talking about money, imo. The winner of Madden might get 100k, but that's not much compared to the exposure and revenue they & the NFLN get by doing it in the first place. Just my .02, and I could be wrong of course. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TBS has dove into Esports showing them on Friday night, they could possibly be an option. You could also approach Spike TV as someone who may be looking for content for the same demographic. Twitch and Youtube are also options if the prize money and willingness to market are there. If you offered big money to the winners, and got coverage about it, people would tune in to see it. There are a bunch of networks I am sure though that are looking to have some sort of Esport offering, just would take some legwork to set up a deal.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

I am in the group that believes the push for Esports is a dangerous and short sighted pivot for EA.

Could not disagree more strongly.

Robert Kraft just invested $15M in an Overwatch eSports league, a league being built around a game which just became a billion-dollar franchise for Activision-Blizzard. Riot Games has built a multi-billion dollar company solely on the back of League Of Legends, the leading video game in the e-sports scene. Psyonix literally changed the fortunes of their company with Rocket League, which for a time was the top console E-Sports game (until Overwatch came out). Even an older game like Starcraft II awarded $22M in prize money to E-Sports competitors last year.

E-Sports is growing, has been growing for years, and will continue to grow. If anything, EA Sports is arguably behind the curve with positioning their professional sports titles as relevant players in the exploding E-Sports scene. Pro sports games directly and obviously translate to competitive experiences, they belong as E-Sports games.

I realize Madden Nation was a thing that existed as early as Madden 07, but EA Sports should have pursued the E-Sports direction more aggressively years ago.

[T4VERTS]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Could not disagree more strongly. Robert Kraft just invested $15M in an Overwatch eSports league, a league being built around a game which just became a billion-dollar franchise for Activision-Blizzard. Riot Games has built a multi-billion dollar company solely on the back of League Of Legends, the leading video game in the e-sports scene. Psyonix literally changed the fortunes of their company with Rocket League, which for a time was the top console E-Sports game (until Overwatch came out). Even an older game like Starcraft II awarded $22M in prize money to E-Sports competitors last year. E-Sports is growing, has been growing for years, and will continue to grow. If anything, EA Sports is arguably behind the curve with positioning their professional sports titles as relevant players in the exploding E-Sports scene. Pro sports games directly and obviously translate to competitive experiences, they belong as E-Sports games. I realize Madden Nation was a thing that existed as early as Madden 07, but EA Sports should have pursued the E-Sports direction more aggressively years ago.

There are some major differences, one being most those games became Esport leagues organically because the game play fit the idea of playing competitively rather than the game developer trying to simply stick it in as one to jump on the craze. Madden is actually working backward from those games. They are taking a game that wasn't built to work well competitively and trying to change it to fit. EA is banking hard that those changes will be widely accepted. They made a positive step separating modes out, but it doesn't mean the shift won't hurt your core customer base through disillusion, or perceived lack of focus.

As I pointed out before, they are lowering the barrier of entry for other football games if they remove the effects of the individual players on the outcomes of the games. If it's not about the players on the field, but the players controlling them then those users shouldn't care as much about the name on the jersey if they still have an avenue to win money. The franchise and casual gamer care about the names on jersey's because their payoff comes with the reward of "being" them or controlling their destiny. In competitive gaming the payoff is winning and who they use is not as important.

As a whole I am not sure all of these factors have been truly vetted out, this is more of where I am heading with short sighted. Has EA thought about the possibility that they may prove out the concept of competitive football as a Esport, but simultaneously show that their greatest advantage (licensing) is not needed to be a player in the market? If they lose control of the competitive football market after a heavy investment, what does that mean for the game?

I think these are interesting questions, that I am going to attempt to talk to EA about on my developer series next month.

[kyle81]

Quote: Originally Posted by OhMrHanky

Yeah, that's the tricky part and why I don't mind them doing that. Not that I watch these things all the time, lol, but I do catch em every once in awhile because I'm curious if there's still cheese, or maybe the top player is actually playing with no cheese or whatnot. That's why, for a true competition of video game 'football,' it should be 15 min qtrs with acc clock around 16) to better mimic huddle time and getting to the line. This would limit ridiculous hot routing as well and be more about strategy. Although, someone can still run no huddle, of course, but I get my meaning. If they played 15 min qtrs and actually had time to comeback, I'd think you'd see more true football strategy such as punting on 4th and 10 from your own 20 instead of going for it. And, I think it would punish people more who go for it on ridiculous 4th downs. It could actually play out like a real NFL game. Now, don't get me wrong, people don't want to watch a single 2 hr game. Lol. I understand that. But, to be fair/honest, I suppose that's the difference between playing 'madden' and playing 'football'. If you're going to play an entire 'game' of video game 'football,' u should play 15 min qtrs. If they have esports for The Show, do they only play 3 innings? Or, do they play the full 9, u know? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've always said if you want to be a football coach go help your local high school team. They'll always take volunteers.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by T4VERTS

There are some major differences, one being most those games became Esport leagues organically because the game play fit the idea of playing competitively rather than the game developer trying to simply stick it in as one to jump on the craze. Madden is actually working backward from those games. They are taking a game that wasn't built to work well competitively and trying to change it to fit.

I'd argue the mainstream cultural appeal of Madden has always been the competitive experience, be it couch multiplayer or later online multiplayer. #MaddenSeason, etc. Sure there are plenty of franchise guys or "sim" guys, but the competitive appeal is why Madden has been one of the most popular online console games since online play on consoles was introduced in 2002, and why Ultimate Team has been so wildly successful since it was introduced in 2009. People enjoy competition, and sports games like Madden are by their very nature competitive.

That's not to say Madden doesn't have to adapt their game to be a wildly successful E-Sports game (as opposed to a niche e-sports game, which it already is and has been for at least a decade); they do, you are correct on that point. The game doesn't offer enough user agency on the field, the game's skill floor is too high, and the game's skill ceiling is too low. That's why we've seeing an increase in not only the number of meaningful and masterable user gameplay mechanics over the past two years - be it the new tackle controls, the new running controls, the new catching controls, and this year apparently new passing controls - but also the breadth and depth of teaching tools in the game - Skills Trainer, on-field visual aids and move prompts, automatic RB controls and one-button modes on lower difficulties, etc. etc.

You are also correct that the game has to walk the line between user mechanical mastery and player ratings affecting results, lest all the money people spend on new Ultimate Team cards be for naught. The fact that Madden is an NFL game absolutely matters and EA can't lose sight of that. This is an achievable goal, however, and it's something Madden has been balancing since its inception.

Quote:

They made a positive step separating modes out, but it doesn't mean the shift won't hurt your core customer base through disillusion, or perceived lack of focus.

Clarification question - who are you identifying as Madden's "core customer base"?

Regardless, I think that expanding the game's competitive appeal, lowering its skill floor, and increasing its skill ceiling will increase its appeal as a video game, regardless of its genre or licensing. Good games with good marketing will find an audience, great games with great marketing will find a bigger one. Madden is probably comfortably in the "good game" group right now, relative to everything else on the market. Making a mechanically better video game will increase the size of the core audience beyond whatever it is today. It literally and figuratively moves the goal posts.

Quote:

Has EA thought about the possibility that they may prove out the concept of competitive football as a Esport, but simultaneously show that their greatest advantage (licensing) is not needed to be a player in the market?

How would they prove this one way or the other, given that Madden the video game and the NFL licensing go hand-in-hand?