canes21 College Football 25 Sliders

[canes21]

We're back!

Yep, wasn't sure I'd ever be making a slider set for a college football game again, but here we are. 11 years in the making. Below I will create a rough outline that gets those unfamiliar with my slider sets a chance to understand what I aim for.

If it turns out my sliders don't sound like something you're as interested in, fear not, this community is full of excellent slider makers and there are going to be a number of quality sets you can use.

Everybody plays a bit differently, we all have different skill levels, and this place often has enough slider sets to cover just about everyone out there.

What My Sliders Aim For

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A challenging experience that produces realistic results. Plain and simple. This is college football. Winning is tough and we want that to be represented here. If you're taking the worst team in the game, you should go 2-10 in year 1. It's boring if you're playing as a 71 overall team and going 11-1 and making the playoffs in year 1. That's not what we aim for here.

I often take a very stats based approach and will play decent amounts of games to get good sample sizes, then make adjustments from there. I may play 20 games to get a good amount of data that shows where I need to adjust the sliders, then play another 20 and compare the data to real life to analyze what still needs tweaking. It can get time consuming at points, but taking a stats driven approach has yielded what I think are very good results over the years.

When you're stats driven and comparing to real life and using good sample sizes, it ensures you're getting close to as real life as possible because at the end of the day... numbers don't lie.

What Skill Level Are We Shooting For

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A higher one. If you're familiar with my Madden sliders or past NCAA sliders, you know I am always on All Madden or Heisman. We're always aiming to get realistic results via tuning areas of the game to be as realistic as possible. I want realistic times in the pocket, realistic success rates in the ground game, realistic windows in the passing game.

Simply put, if you are the type of person that doesn't have some knowledge on the X's and O's side of things and just blindly drops back hoping for the best, these sliders likely aren't for you. The expectation with my sliders is you know football, know how to make progressions, understand concepts, what counters what, and understand that football is difficult and you're going to have frustrating games where things don't go your way and that's okay.

If you have a bad OL, expect to have 3 seconds or less in the pocket, expect to get your QB beat up, expect to have to rely on max protects more often, moving the pocket, etc. You need to understand how to adapt and give your team the best chance for success, but also know the sliders will be tuned to where if you're playing as Akron vs Bama, even if you make all the right schematic decisions, you might still lose by 4 TD's simply because of the talent gap. You need to be okay with that.

A Need to Understand the Game's Limitations

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We all know these games aren't perfect. They are heavily animations based and often lack animations in certain scenarios. Things like WR/DB hand fighting isn't really represented in the game. We don't have defensive holding in the game. Tons of penalties are missing from the game. Things along those lines.

In realizing that, there is an understanding that to produce realistic results, sometimes visual fidelity is going to have to be sacrificed to a degree. An example being the game not having a very complex pass coverage system in it, so to get a realistic number of passes that are contested without inflating turnover numbers, you may have to deal with more dropped interception animations than you'd like. This is simply due to the game being limited in its mechanics and animations.

I'd love to say the game is tuned perfectly and will be able to visually represent real life 1:1, but we all know that isn't the case. So, you have to be comfortable understanding that some things play out the way they do in order for the end result to be as realistic as possible. Until games are advanced beyond our imagination, it's something you have to learn and accept with these games.

These Sliders Serve as a Base

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Every single person on this board plays slightly different from one another. We all have varying skill levels. Me and someone else may have very similar skill levels, but the strengths and weaknesses of our games, the tendencies we have, etc. will make it so the game will need to be tuned slightly different for each person.

My sliders aim to give people of similar skill level a good base to start with, but odds are you will need to make minor slider adjustments to get the game matching how you play. I may be a better player in the run game than you, so I may be able to have realistic results on X value while you need it on Y value. On the flip side, you may be a much better QB than me and I need CPU Pass Coverage at X value while you need to bump it up to Y value.

As long as you understand these sliders are a base and that some tweaks may be needed to get the best results possible, I think you'll be fine. Often, from my experience with Madden, each person just needs a couple minor adjustments here and there and they are good to go. We hope that's the case here. I'm not trying to act like my sliders are scripture and you must follow them exactly. Feel free to take them and adjust them. I just post them to try and help others find an experience they can enjoy.

Do You Use Any House Rules

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I do use some house rules when I play these games, but that does not mean you are forced to play with the same house rules. As these sliders serve as a base, every play style is welcome here, just understand the differences in how we play are going to potentially lead to the need for slider adjustments in certain areas to keep the challenge where we want it.

As an example, I always no-switch on defense. That makes it so I need to typically have my tackle slider slightly higher than someone who does switch on defense and often user tackles.

The house rules I play these games with are:

- no switch on defense

- I play as the highest rated player on defense. This just makes me feel like my impact player is having the most impact and it removes the potential of me usering a 72 overall MLB and turning them into an All-American player simply due to stick skills. If multiple players are tied for the highest rating, I usually stick with one for an entire game, then the other the next game. If my best player is a CB, sometimes I don't play as them as I don't find playing as CB as fun and I suck at it half the time, honestly.

- if I find any plays are money, OP, cheese, whatever you call it, I avoid them. the goal is to get a challenging and balanced game in vs the CPU, so if I find plays that are quite literally broken and unfair, I avoid running them.

- I usually limit myself to only performing actions the CPU has the capability to do. For example, in past games, the CPU never did pre-play adjustments, so I avoided using them as well. Now, we're told the CPU does use all pre-play adjustments in this game, so I will allow myself to use them. However, if it turns out the CPU ball carriers never juke, spin, etc., then I won't use those moves either. I know some of you all will hate this house rule, but like I said, these are mine, you're welcome to play the same way as me, you're welcome to tell me to shove it and play your way. It's your game, have fun your way.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Basically, if something gives me an unfair advantage over the CPU, I don't do it. Otherwise, fair game. Again, play how you want, though. You DO NOT have to use my house rules to enjoy the sliders. You just need to be aware the differences in play style can lead to minor adjustments being needed with certain sliders.

With all that said, once 4pm gets here today, you can bet I will be grinding out play now games all over the country seeing all the different sights and sounds, the different teams, and I will be working very hard to try and get a slider set ready to go as soon as possible.

As always, whenever an updated set comes out, I will post them in the thread, but the OP will also always have the updated set in it along with all prior versions I've posted. So, if I have released a 1.0 and then 3 subsequent sets and you feel one of the prior sets played better for you, I will always leave them up behind some spoilers so that you always have access to them and can go back to using them.

I'm not trying to gate keep anyone here. At the end of the day, we're all just looking to have a good time with this game and I am simply hoping my slider sets can help at least one person out there other than myself have an even better time with they might otherwise have.

LAHC Post Patch - Needed a soft reset on the sliders after all the patches, so this is where we currently are right now as of 10.29.24.

Spoiler

Heisman
9 Min Quarter
20 Sec Accel Clock
Ball Hawk Off
Heat Seeker Off

User / CPU
Accuracy 17 / 30
Pass Block 63 / 75
Catching 41 / 41

Run Block 11 / 100
Fumbles 30 / 26

Reaction Time 60 / 83
Interception 15 / 14
Coverage 52 / 83

Tackling 38 / 43

FG Power 50
FG Accuracy 44
Punt Power 58
Punt Accuracy 80
Kickoff Power 54

Injuries 57
Fatigue 92
Threshold 50

Offside 75
False Start 85
Holding 57
Face Mask 81
DPI 95
Block in the Back 61
Grounding OFF
Roughing 50
Illegal Contact OFF

Archived Sets

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v1.0 - These are on the Download Center under the name "canes21 v1 0"

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Game Settings
Difficulty: Heisman
Quarter Length: 12 Minutes
Accelerated Clock: On
Minimum Play Clock Time: 20 Seconds
Defensive Ball Hawk: Off
Defensive Heat Seeker Assist: Off
Injuries: 42
Fatigue: 72
Player Speed parity Scale: 95

Penalties
Offside: 60
False State: 65
Offensive Holding: 65
Facemask: 65
Illegal Block in the Back: 65
Roughing the Passer: 50
Defensive Pass Interference: 95

*I'm assuming like Madden that once we're in Dynasty mode we can change these values by 1-point increments. We're stuck with 5-point increments in the main menu for whatever reason.

Player Skill
QB Accuracy: 36
Pass Blocking: 42
WR Catching: 49

Run Blocking: 30
Ball Security: 45

Reaction Time: 76
Interceptions: 13
Pass Coverage: 72

Tackling: 49

Special Teams all at 50

CPU Skill
QB Accuracy: 21
Pass Blocking: 10
WR Catching: 49

Run Blocking: 100
Ball Security: 45

Reaction Time: 76
Interceptions: 13
Pass Coverage: 72

Tackling: 51

Special Teams all at 50

v1.1 - These are on the Download Center under the name "canes21 v1 1"

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Game Settings
Difficulty: Heisman
Quarter Length: 12 Minutes
Accelerated Clock: On
Minimum Play Clock Time: 20 Seconds
Defensive Ball Hawk: Off
Defensive Heat Seeker Assist: Off
Injuries: 42
Fatigue: 72
Player Speed parity Scale: 95

Penalties
Offside: 60
False State: 75(+10) - Not seeing enough on old value
Offensive Holding: 60(-5) - It gets out of hand at 65
Facemask: 75(+10) - Not seeing enough on old value
Illegal Block in the Back: 65
Roughing the Passer: 50
Defensive Pass Interference: 95

*I'm assuming like Madden that once we're in Dynasty mode we can change these values by 1-point increments. We're stuck with 5-point increments in the main menu for whatever reason.

Player Skill
QB Accuracy: 29(-7) - Wasn't seeing errant throws unless hit while throwing
Pass Blocking: 48(+6) - Pocket was degrading far too quickly vs 4 man rush
WR Catching: 40(-9) - Drops were nearly non-existent which is a no-no for a collegiate game

Run Blocking: 26(-4) - Run blocking was simply too strong
Ball Security: 21(-24) - Need the fumble rate to double essentially

Reaction Time: 69(-7) - Defense was reacting far too fast to throwing motion
Interceptions: 21(+8) - DB's didn't have working hands before
Pass Coverage: 69(-3) - Coverage was a tad too sticky for the college game

Tackling: 39(-10) - College football is sloppy, tackles were nearly a guarantee even in the open field which is not accurate at all

FG Power: 50
FG Accuracy: 50 - Keeping an eye on this the more I get used to the new mechanic
Punt Power: 58(+8) - Was 5+ yards less per punt than real life
Punt Accuracy: 36(-14) - Simply was far too easy to coffin corner
Kickoff Power: 54(+4) - These days most P4 kickers kick touchbacks more than 50% of the time and the CPU also has terrible return logic, so this is to aid in gameplay balance

CPU Skill
QB Accuracy: 14(-7) - Same reason as user
Pass Blocking: 28(+18) - Same reason as user
WR Catching: 42(-7) - Same reason as user

Run Blocking: 100 - Can I raise this to 200 somehow?
Ball Security: 21(-24) - Wasn't close to real life rate

Reaction Time: 69(-7) - Same reason as user
Interceptions: 21(+8) - Same reason as user
Pass Coverage: 69(-3) - Same reason as user, definitely keeping an eye on this for the CPU, it's college but don't want passing too easy

Tackling: 42(-9) - Same reason as user

FG Power: 50
FG Accuracy: 44(-6) - CPU finally missed, but was still kicking 85% overall and was far too accurate at range
Punt Power: 58 - Same reason as user
Punt Accuracy: 69(+19) - CPU wasn't good at all with coffin corners, hoping we can finally fix that
Kickoff Power: 54 - Same reason as user, kicks need to reach the end zone more consistently from good kickers

v1.2 - These are on the Download Center under the name "canes21 v1 2"

Spoiler

Game Settings
Difficulty: Heisman
Quarter Length: 12 Minutes*
Accelerated Clock: On
Minimum Play Clock Time: 20 Seconds
Defensive Ball Hawk: Off
Defensive Heat Seeker Assist: Off

*Note, the 12 minute quarter length is set to give you realistic snap counts. If you want your stats to be more in line with the simulated games in dynasty, turn the time to around 9 minutes.*

Player Skill
QB Accuracy: 28
Pass Blocking: 50
WR Catching: 39

Run Blocking: 18
Ball Security: 32

Reaction Time: 55
Interceptions: 21
Pass Coverage: 55

Tackling: 37

CPU Skill
QB Accuracy: 32
Pass Blocking: 50
WR Catching: 40

Run Blocking: 100
Ball Security: 32

Reaction Time: 60
Interceptions: 21
Pass Coverage: 62

Tackling: 43

FG Power: 50
FG Accuracy: 44
Punt Power: 58
Punt Accuracy: 80
Kickoff Power: 54

Game Options
Injuries: 55
Fatigue: 90
Player Speed parity Scale: 100

Penalties
Offside: 75
False State: 85
Offensive Holding: 57
Facemask: 81
Defensive Pass Interference: 99
Illegal Block in the Back: 61
Roughing the Passer: 50

Experimental Sets

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LAHC - Low Accuracy High Coverage, this set started as an experimental set with more extreme values for Accuracy and Coverage to see if we could get realistic levels of tight coverage and increase QB misfires without completely turning each game into a slog. Overall, it was a big success and this set plays extremely well, imo.

Spoiler

Player - CPU
Accuracy 8 - 5
Pass Block 58 - 58
Catching 40 - 38
Run Block 15 - 100
Fumble 32 - 30
Reaction 52 - 52
Interception 21 - 21
Coverage 82 - 82
Tackling 38 - 43

FG Power 50
FG Accuracy 44
Punt Power 58
Punt Accuracy 80
Kickoff Power 54

Injuries 32
Fatigue 86
Speed Threshold 100

Offside 75
False Start 85
Holding 58
Face Mask 81
DPI 95
Block in Back 62
Roughing QB 50

80 Threshold Set - This was another experimental set that had an ultimate goal of increasing the CPU's ability to run the ball more consistently while keeping the same level of challenge. In the end, I personally didn't enjoy the drop in speed threshold as much, so I stopped testing and developing this set, but we have multiple users in here that have really enjoyed this set, so it's staying up.

Spoiler

Player - CPU
Accuracy 16 - 21
Pass Block 63 - 63
Catching 41 - 38
Run Block 12 - 100
Fumble 34 - 30
Reaction 58 - 60
Interception 18 - 18
Coverage 70 - 84
Tackling 41 - 44

FG Power 50
FG Accuracy 40
Punt Power 58
Punt Accuracy 80
Kickoff Power 54

Injuries 55
Fatigue 90
Speed Threshold 80

Offside 75
False Start 85
Holding 57
Face Mask 81
DPI 95
Block in Back 61
Roughing QB 50

LAHC 2.0 - I really enjoyed the LAHC set and wanted to try and take them even further and that was the goal of this set. To keep the challenge and realistic gameplay while making the CPU QB's a bit more aggressive and to give the CPU offense a boost without making them unrealistically good. Personally, this is now my favorite set and I don't really see any tweaks I can make. UPDATE - Now that we've had multiple patches, these are no longer the most recent and recommended set.

Spoiler

Player - CPU
Accuracy 14 - 26
Pass Block 63 - 63
Catching 40 - 31
Run Block 12 - 100
Fumble 33 - 30
Reaction 58 - 58
Interception 14 - 14
Coverage 90 - 90
Tackling 43 - 43

FG Power 50
FG Accuracy 44
Punt Power 58
Punt Accuracy 80
Kickoff Power 54

Injuries 55
Fatigue 90
Speed Threshold 100

Offside 75
False Start 85
Holding 57
Face Mask 81
DPI 95
Block in Back 61
Roughing QB 50

[jdb7623]

Would your sliders be applicable to a coach mode setup?

[canes21]

Quote: Originally Posted by jdb7623

Would your sliders be applicable to a coach mode setup?

I honestly don't know. I've never tried my sliders with coach mode. I think they would potentially provide a decent base with some things needing some boosts to it. Like, I expect my USER QB Accuracy and Run Blocking values are going to be pretty low based off how I see the game is tuned in the videos and those are values that are fine lowered for a user controlled team, but may need to be boosted a little for coach mode.

Things like Pass Coverage and whatnot won't need as many adjustments potentially since I already play No Switch and those are areas that are more CPU player dependent anyways, so they'll already be tuned for CPU control if that makes any sense. Feels like I worded that terribly. Basically, the areas of the game the user has the least impact on I think will work for coach mode, but the other areas that are influenced more by user skill would probably need some adjustments for coach mode.

[BarfytheOwl]

Can't wait man, your set was my favorite for Madden and I'm on board with using yours as my base again.

Some things I've already noticed in my test games:

12min/20 accel may be a little too long for this game, too much scoring in the few games I played with that.

I've got my speed threshold at 75 and I'm loving the way it's playing, I feel like that's a good place to start if things feel too fast.

Injuries at default may be a tad too high, most likely to do with the wear and tear system. I love the idea behind it, but in both play now and RTG, the default setting (10 and 25), has produced injuries on like 6 plays in a row, mostly in the late 3rd and 4th quarters, and mostly in the trenches. I don't think it needs a massive adjustment, but it seems too high right now.

Of course we'll have to see if the release patch fixes any of the above, but I figured I'd give you some info on what I'm seeing so far. Loving the game even with its flaws, I think it's very close to a great game of football out of the box.

Sent from my SM-S127DL using Operation Sports mobile app

[youngdave]

Loved your madden 24 set, and was very thrilled to see this post. Much appreciation for your efforts brother!!

[Kramer5150]

Quote: Originally Posted by BarfytheOwl

Can't wait man, your set was my favorite for Madden and I'm on board with using yours as my base again. Some things I've already noticed in my test games: 12min/20 accel may be a little too long for this game, too much scoring in the few games I played with that. I've got my speed threshold at 75 and I'm loving the way it's playing, I feel like that's a good place to start if things feel too fast. Injuries at default may be a tad too high, most likely to do with the wear and tear system. I love the idea behind it, but in both play now and RTG, the default setting (10 and 25), has produced injuries on like 6 plays in a row, mostly in the late 3rd and 4th quarters, and mostly in the trenches. I don't think it needs a massive adjustment, but it seems too high right now. Of course we'll have to see if the release patch fixes any of the above, but I figured I'd give you some info on what I'm seeing so far. Loving the game even with its flaws, I think it's very close to a great game of football out of the box. Sent from my SM-S127DL using Operation Sports mobile app

In my (so far) game and a half, I have had completely different results..

1-playing with 15 min and runoff to 12 was perfect for what I was looking for.

2-Speed thresh- I always have put it on 95, and for this game is no different, and yes there still is separation and no LB's don't catch up to WR's

3-Injuries- I raised to 50 and have not witnessed anything that drew a "red flag"...

I also went in and zeroed out hum rb, and while the running felt a bit more difficult it was no where what I witnessed in Madden...which was WAY too easy.

I'm sure Canes will come up with a great set, just mentioning what I've witnessed so far.

[BarfytheOwl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kramer5150

In my (so far) game and a half, I have had completely different results.. 1-playing with 15 min and runoff to 12 was perfect for what I was looking for. 2-Speed thresh- I always have put it on 95, and for this game is no different, and yes there still is separation and no LB's don't catch up to WR's 3-Injuries- I raised to 50 and have not witnessed anything that drew a "red flag"... I also went in and zeroed out hum rb, and while the running felt a bit more difficult it was no where what I witnessed in Madden...which was WAY too easy. I'm sure Canes will come up with a great set, just mentioning what I've witnessed so far.

Fwiw, I'm seeing the injuries mostly in RTG, in play now they happened too but in RTG its been nuts. But like I said above it's mostly in the late 3rd and into the 4th it starts happening, that's why I think it's tied to wear and tear.

Sent from my SM-S127DL using Operation Sports mobile app

[Kramer5150]

Quote: Originally Posted by BarfytheOwl

Fwiw, I'm seeing the injuries mostly in RTG, in play now they happened too but in RTG its been nuts. But like I said above it's mostly in the late 3rd and into the 4th it starts happening, that's why I think it's tied to wear and tear. Sent from my SM-S127DL using Operation Sports mobile app

Oh okay, gotcha.