IWC...

[Streets]

This thread was spawned from the official Wrestlemania thread. I didn't want to take it off topic, and I'm really interested in this discussion, so I thought I'd create a new thread.

So here's the thing... if I watch a show and criticize 85% of it, am indifferent about 10% of it, and truly enjoy only 5%, then what's the point? That's the only thing I never understood about wrestling fans who just constantly complain about the product.

I feel like a lot of people- and I see it at the live shows, bars where I used to watch PPV's, internet message boards, etc... they have a tendency to say these soundbites like "[Mid-card Wrestler X] is getting held back", "TDJ is the next big thing" (this one may be true, jury's still out), "[Everyone who's popular] sucks!", "[Everyone who's popular] is only there because of politics (or friends with Vince or HHH), "[Unknown wrestler from Japan] is greater than any of these WWE hacks".

And I wonder if that's the appeal to wrestling. It's sort of the illusion of being in a secret society. I get to see the man behind the curtain, and spout off all of my insider information and look "cool" or "in the know" while totally bashing a product in the process. To me, if I was as cynical as some of these wrestling fans (and I don't want to generalize all IWC fans... I just couldn't think of a better word... but you all know the type), I would wonder why I even watch the product at some point.

I would love to hear others opinion on this subject, because it boggles my mind. Also, is the IWC now the majority? Some times it seems like it. I feel like I try hard to avoid spoilers and just enjoy the product but hear them all the time! The "insider info" is not too insider anymore and I literally stumble onto this stuff (we all knew Mania's card for a long time). I feel like there are very few people left who try to just enjoy the product as is without trying to see behind the curtain.

[OSUFan_88]

I think the Internet has really taken it's toll on Wrestling as a mystic and you REALLY have to try hard to avoid spoilers.

That being said, I do bitch and complain about a lot, particularly Cena-man, but I still enjoy the show. Hell, even sometimes I enjoy Cena's part of the show!

I have often wondered why some people don't get the push and how others gain quick stardom, how HHH is still wrestling after blowing out his quad like 3 times now. Sometimes I completely hate what I'm watching and sometimes I like it.

I imagine the only reason people complain is because they feel connected or disconnected from a certain star. Wrestling is not like anything on TV, as it's scripted and the finishes are already known before the competition. That is why people complain, I think, because when they don't agree, they know they can blast the decision and not say it's rotten luck.

I don't know, I'm babbling on now and really random...but I think I pretty much got my thoughts out there.

[Qb]

I think you make some great points, Streets. I can easily see where ignorance (of the dirt/backstage stuff) is bliss for a wrestling fan.

[vernond]

I think a lot of the IWC wants to feel like they know something that the general audience doesn't and be one step ahead of the game. That's why they want to get behind the "next big thing" and then when they make it they find some reason to not be behind them. Look at HHH and HBK before they hit the true main event status they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then everyone tore them down once they got there. I think the IWC wants to constantly prove their knowledge of the business and tries to stay ahead of the curve.

[scarface scotty]

I wouldn't say that I've been a wrestling fan all my life. I started watching it during the Monday night wars. I was a big fan of WCW...they just had a wide variety of wrestlers and a really deep cruiserweight division which I loved. Really the only reason I watched WWE back then was because of Stone Cold, The Rock, and hotties like Trish Stratus. I didn't watch them for the wrestling abilities...they were just entertaining from the things they said to the crazy stunts they pulled (I still love Stone Cold hosing down Vince McMahon from the beer truck). But once WCW folded, really my only choice was WWE. They eventually got rid of all the people that I liked that came from WCW and ECW and even some of the younger talents that were being groomed within the company (Jeff Hardy, Elijah Burke). I stopped watching for several years. I started watching again recently because I really liked SvR 2010 after I rented it and eventually bought it. I'm just really disappointed in what WWE has become...especially Raw. I'm hating the PG rated content they are putting out now. I mean Raw runs from 9-11, that should be mature entertainment IMO. Not to mention the length and number of matches have gone down considerably. I hate Vince coming down to the ring and gloating for 20 minutes straight. Then they'll have a two minute match. Then John Cena will come down and cut a 30 minute sleep inducing promo. Then a three minute match. Then HHH and HBK will tape Hornswoggle to a skateboard and push him down the hallway. Then the main event, a 5 minute match that usually always involves John Cena. So pardon me if I'm a little cynical. I'd watch TNA but I think they're even worse. So I'll watch NXT and the occasional Smackdown and keep praying these young guys will get their shot someday.

[Streets]

Quote: Originally Posted by OSUFan_88

I think the Internet has really taken it's toll on Wrestling as a mystic and you REALLY have to try hard to avoid spoilers. That being said, I do bitch and complain about a lot, particularly Cena-man, but I still enjoy the show. Hell, even sometimes I enjoy Cena's part of the show! I have often wondered why some people don't get the push and how others gain quick stardom, how HHH is still wrestling after blowing out his quad like 3 times now. Sometimes I completely hate what I'm watching and sometimes I like it. I imagine the only reason people complain is because they feel connected or disconnected from a certain star. Wrestling is not like anything on TV, as it's scripted and the finishes are already known before the competition. That is why people complain, I think, because when they don't agree, they know they can blast the decision and not say it's rotten luck. I don't know, I'm babbling on now and really random...but I think I pretty much got my thoughts out there.

No doubt man. I complain a lot of the time too. I hate what Edge's character has become. I hate Sheamus and the fact that he's being pushed to the moon. If I had my way everyone would be heels (Punk, Cena, Edge, Orton, HHH, Batista... imagine a world where they're all heels screwing eachother over). I mean honestly, complaining and not liking something is one thing. But I come at it from the perspective of a fan. I don't think I could do better (though I often post ideas that I have on this site a lot just for the hell of it), and even if I dislike part of what is put out, I understand it is a business and there is a much larger majority than myself who does like the super-faces like Hardy, Rey, Cena (though I do love him), etc. So I cheer for my guys (the heels), and I boo the faces, and I enjoy the product for what it is.

I think the internet has taken away one of the biggest things I loved about the attitude era, which is the surprise element. Now we know months in advance if someone is going to make a return or something big is going to happen and it just kills those huge OMG! pop moments.

That immediacy to turn in next week to see the surprise is gone. The WWE knows that fans will find stuff out from other sites so I think they do less surprises and will hype up returns themselves, and use that as a hook. I think the way it was before was better for business (the ratings) and for me as a fan, but this is the way it is now with everyone posting insider info and spoilers ad nauseum.

[Streets]

Quote: Originally Posted by scarface scotty

I wouldn't say that I've been a wrestling fan all my life. I started watching it during the Monday night wars. I was a big fan of WCW...they just had a wide variety of wrestlers and a really deep cruiserweight division which I loved. Really the only reason I watched WWE back then was because of Stone Cold, The Rock, and hotties like Trish Stratus. I didn't watch them for the wrestling abilities...they were just entertaining from the things they said to the crazy stunts they pulled (I still love Stone Cold hosing down Vince McMahon from the beer truck). But once WCW folded, really my only choice was WWE. They eventually got rid of all the people that I liked that came from WCW and ECW and even some of the younger talents that were being groomed within the company (Jeff Hardy, Elijah Burke). I stopped watching for several years. I started watching again recently because I really liked SvR 2010 after I rented it and eventually bought it. I'm just really disappointed in what WWE has become...especially Raw. I'm hating the PG rated content they are putting out now. I mean Raw runs from 9-11, that should be mature entertainment IMO. Not to mention the length and number of matches have gone down considerably. I hate Vince coming down to the ring and gloating for 20 minutes straight. Then they'll have a two minute match. Then John Cena will come down and cut a 30 minute sleep inducing promo. Then a three minute match. Then HHH and HBK will tape Hornswoggle to a skateboard and push him down the hallway. Then the main event, a 5 minute match that usually always involves John Cena. So pardon me if I'm a little cynical. I'd watch TNA but I think they're even worse. So I'll watch NXT and the occasional Smackdown and keep praying these young guys will get their shot someday.

You did a really good job of explaining why you are cynical of the product, and I think I understand that. What I don't understand is why you still watch it?? I know you say that since WCW folded and TNA is god-awful, the WWE is your "only choice"... but you always have the choice to turn of the TV, change the channel, go outside, create your own storylines on 2010 where Triple H opens the show and Shelton Benjamin is the WWE champion, etc.

If my sole reason for watching is to hope and pray that one of my guys gets pushed, then I think that for me it would be a waste of time (though I have seen Angle, Orton, Cena, and Miz pushed in my time as a fan). I'd rather go to the gym and play basketball, catch up on some work, spend time with the GF, watch any number of the TV shows, movies, or Rockets games that I love, engage in discussions like this on OS, hang with friends etc.

A whim and a prayer is not worth my time which is why I wonder if the IWC gets something else out of putting down the product. 5 hours a week plus PPV's is too much time to invest in something I dislike.

[scarface scotty]

I understand about what you mean in wasting time watching it. I don't even bother watching Raw anymore. I like a few of the guys on NXT, and Smackdown is usually more hit than miss. I guess it's NXT that really keeps me watching. Even though the guys aren't competing for belts or anything, it's still nice to see that they are the main focal point of the show.