(> ' . ')> St. Chaos' Player's Ball Sliders <(' . ' <)

[St. Chaos]

These sliders have been "on the way" for a long time (apologies to those who PMed me waiting for em), but I think they're finally close enough to where I want them to be to be worth releasing. I'd love to just keep testing them myself and tweaking, but thanks to Halo: Reach being more like Halo: CE and less like 2 & 3, I actually love the game. Not to mention NFS: HP will be here November, and I've had that pre-ordered since I found out my McLaren F1 would be in.

Now, the latest patch has done some great things, however, I'm seeing a much more unstable game at the same time. Under normal circumstances, these sliders should provide a a good challenge for players without being insanely unrealistic. I've had games where less than 10 points have been scored at the half, and less than 20 at the finish. I've also had games that were nothing but field goals and maybe 1 touchdown as a result of a defensive play. At the same time, I've had games where the opposing team doesn't seem to show up and the game is won 42-6. I've even had a complete shutout or two. Of course, that was mostly pre-patch... I had my first 400+ yard passing game with sliders similar to these, but after some tweaks I think I've calmed things down a bit (just had a 29-12 grinder with the Pats for example, and the score only got that bad as a result of a pick for a TD and a safety after the Pats started trying too hard).

These sliders have been created in part as a result of Playmakers' work while incorporating my own understanding and belief of the game to adjust them to my playing ability and to exemplify my understanding of the way the game is played.

A big point on where these sliders and Playmakers' differ is that he follows a set of "house rules" of sort in order to prevent odd behavior. Instead of doing that, I wanted to make that an option while also making certain realistic results can be obtained from near maximal player intervention.

HOWEVER, if you incur problems using my sliders, seeing as I probably won't be updating them nearly as often as PM, Mike, or some of the other slider makers, here's a tip on what I've discovered with sliders.

If you take various portions you like of a certain slider set and mix and match them with others and do small tweaks, you should be able to find something to fit you rather well and give you a solid game of football. I know that's a rather obvious tip, but an overlooked one considering all the complaining about sliders that goes on.

Now without any further ado...

(> ' . ')> St. Chaos' Player's Ball Sliders <(' . ' <)

Game Options:
Playcall Style- Gameflow Recommended (XBox 360, PS3, XBox 360 Tutorial)
Quarter Length- 9-12 Minutes (I use 9)******
Accelerated Clock Runoff - 15-25 Seconds (I use 15)******
Auto Strafe - Off
Auto Sprint - Optional (If you have a speedier RB, recommend you turn ON)
Fatigue - 52
Game Speed - Slow/Normal/Fast (I recommend you correlate this to your own reaction ability. I have a very fast reaction time, however, I play on fast because the animations are piss poor on very fast, but for the sake of realism and not blowing up the running game, I don't recommend using a "very" setting in either direction)
Player Min Speed Threshold - 67 [Range: 30-70]***

Player/CPU
(#s in parentheses () are to be used together, .5 numbers mean round up or round down [IE 32.5 = 32 or 33], and brackets [] denote original settings)****

Passing:13
QB Accuracy- 16.5 / 58[56]
Pass Blocking- 42 / 58[58]
WR Catching- 41.5 / 39[36]

Rushing:12
Broken Tackles- 12 / 30[31]
Run Blocking- 35[37] / 49[46]
Fumbles- 63[61] / 76[73]

Pass Defense:11
Reaction Time-38.5([40]) / 76
Interceptions- 21.5([20]) / 23
Pass Rushing- 70 / 76

Rush Defense:13
Reaction Time- 4[5] / 73.5[65]
Block Shedding- 42[43] / 47.5[43]
Tackling- 54[52] / 54[52]

Special Teams:**
FG Power- 49
FG Accuracy- 52[51]
Punt Power- 45[44]
Punt Accuracy- 98
Kickoff Power- 21[20]

Penalties:
Offside- 95
False Start - 80
Holding - 51
Facemask - 53
Def. Pass Interference - 86
Off. Pass Interference - 96
KR/PR Interference - 83
Clipping - 49
Int Grounding - 75
Roughing the Passer* - 10
Roughing the Kicker* - 10

Copyright © 2010-∞ St. Chaos, or owner of originating IP AND e-mail address. All rights reserved. No portion of this post may be duplicated or redistributed in any form without consent.

*It should be noted that the Roughing the Passer and Roughing the Kicker penalties are reversed, so setting one changes the other. IE - if you set RTP to 15, back out, and go back into the penalty menu you'll notice that RTK was changed instead. Set them as you see fit as they're rather unlikely calls, but I don't like "puss ball," and for my play style the CPU calls them in ridiculous situations imo.

**You should run 10-15 yards and dive, or just fair catch punts when using lower thresholds imo, as its rather easy to run a kick back for a TD. You don't have to, but if you react alot faster than the CPU does its easy to juke the entire special teams and haul it down field. Unless you're behind, in which case, run to the 50 or so.

*** Avoid extremes on threshold for various reasons. If the "sand running" bothers you, drop to 30. If you're finding it all too easy to get separation or return kicks, kick it up a notch. Some of my other favorites are 32, 40, and 64.

****For half numbers, try to balance them. Meaning if you round one number up, round the other down (So, 73.5 and 44.5 would be either 74 & 44 or 73 & 45). This applies to numbers within the same category.

*****There is a common belief that roster updates screw up slider balance. I, nor anyone else, has any way of confirming or denying this, however I will say that any change in a large number of players in a specific area can EASILY upset slider balance in this game due to the fact that it is ratings, and not physics, based. I personally only download a roster update after a major transaction, or once every 3 weeks.

******Game time and accelerated clock usage are entirely at user discretion. In actuality, the goal here is to have a game that has 110-130 total plays ran. Depending on how fast you pick plays and snap the ball, play with the numbers until you get good consistency in the number of plays per game being in that range. For me, 9/15 usually gives me 115-120 plays, so thats what I use.

*Special Note* - If I go ghost from the forums for extended periods of time after mid-November, please understand that I have been waiting for a NFS game like NFS: Hot Pursuit since NFS: High Stakes. For you youngins, High Stakes was released over 10 years ago, and imo was arguably the best NFS game to day. With that said, if you feel the need to find me, I'll be there. Outrunning... everyone, as I always have. And if you're smart, if you play as a cop you won't chase me. If you play as a racer, you won't bother cranking your vehicle. I'll try not to totally disappear but ahh... just a heads up

Now I'm sure there will be some oddities there considering I mentioned these sliders being influenced by PMs' sliders, so I'll explain the biggies.

QB Acc - PM doesn't lead pass, and uses a 0 threshold. I don't want to throw out lead passing, nor do I believe in the extreme thresholds so my QBA slider is higher. Also, you shouldn't have to constantly use the "set feet" button to pass. That's an automatic function of NFL QBs, and rather goes without saying for accurate passing. With that said, I assure you, my QBA slider won't give you an easy passing day. Pressure ruins throws just as it does in the NFL. You'll also still have some passes that make you tilt your head and go "er?" Not to mention, every lead pass still won't be 100% on target all the time. Quick passes made immediately after snap (off balance, feet not steady) tend to not hit their mark. I also didn't want to have an otherwise amazing passer making ridiculous throws all the time for the hell of it.

Broken Tackles - Quite frankly, the CPU's broken tackles get way out of hand very quickly. The Broken Tackle and Tackling sliders obviously complement each other, and are HIGHLY sensitive sliders. I don't like the "pinballing" the CPU does, so I've tried to eliminate it for the most part (bouncing off of 2-3 tackles/run). I also don't like Joseph Addai trucking Casey Hampton or stiff arming Kris Jenkins, so I've tried to make it so tackles are made accurate to a player's ability. You won't see Guys like Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis missing tackles on anyone for the most part unless its a result of an overpursuit or a bad angle. CBs should understand what they're getting into when running toward Adrian Peterson or Brandon Jacobs though.

Fumbles - It seems like most slider makers try to keep this low to keep people from getting ridiculous with the highlight stick... but that makes for an unrealistic game imo. NFL RBs do NOT fumble every game, nor do they run cradling the ball all the time. They might fumble once every 3 or 4 games, if that. Some might not fumble the entire season, and several only fumble once. Adrian Peterson, one of the most notorious fumblers, doesn't even fumble every game. You shouldn't have to run around using the "protect ball" button when that's not how NFL RBs are doing it. Using APn again, he's one of the most angry runners in the NFL, and like I said he doesn't fumble every game. Ray Rice is another angry runner, and he doesn't fumble every game either. With these sliders, you ought to see a fumble or two every few games for most RBs. With that said if you do start getting out of hand with the highlight stick, you're still taking a risk because you do DRASTICALLY increase your chances of losing the ball. Also, I had to raise the CPU's even higher (and still may raise it again) in an effort to allow the player to deliver perfectly timed hits to players without resulting in excessive fumbles. Rest assured, even with the sliders this high, fumbles do still occur often, and sometimes more often, than they should.

Pass Reaction Time: Simply put, the CPU needs help. This is where PM and I have differed most greatly in our sliders. At one point I had the player's slider almost as high as the CPUs because it was necessary. A choice has to be made here whether to sacrifice the visual experience or to sacrifice realistic coverage. Realistically? Darrelle Revis and Nnamdi Asomugha should not be tested too often in a game, or at all. Whoever their man is should be, for most of the game, totally shut down (assuming your front 7 is generating reasonable pressure). The problem is the way it also effects other players, as it can quickly turn everyone on the field into a super CB. With that said, I tried to balance it so that top corners play like top corners, while crap CBs still get roasted quite often (William Gay of my Steelers frequently gives up 100+ yards in my games, even with my higher-than-normal pass reaction sliders). I also dropped the INT slider to compensate for this in order to keep linemen from getting those insane picks right after the ball is thrown, but not so low that every pick opportunity is dropped. Also, part of the reason the CPU's is still so high is that passes to the TE in Madden are EXTREMELY overeffective, and although can't be 100% prevented, a higher threshold helps with this. I'm still averaging 200+ yards per game even with the sliders this high, and have had the occasional 300+ yarder, and I'm not a long bomber either.

Rush Reaction Time - The CPU has severe issues stopping the run. Because of that their slider is higher than alot of the sets you'll see around here. Right now I'm seeing anywhere from a 2.5 YPC - 7 YPC average with things set as they are, depending greatly on the team I'm against. Vs. the Ravens or Steelers, don't expect to see much above 3 or so, perhaps even lower if the CPU is having a good day. Vs. the Saints? Hell, you can run on them all day, and you should, because Darren Sharper plays like an entire backfield himself on defending the pass.

Any feedback is welcome, and I will respect your opinion. I'll be continuing to test the sliders, as well as accepting some feedback on how the game is playing for you guys. When possible, if you make a tweak to correct an issue you're seeing, please post what sliders you tweaked so that I can test your changes as well. I don't have the time to test EVERY single change, and I've probably already tested many that might be suggested, but I will test any theories with supporting evidence when I do have time. I'm also frequent in PMs' thread, and have offered many suggestions there to some questions that may be asked. And once again, if you need instant fixes to problems you're having, feel free to mix and match. I'd look to PMs' thread first for many tweaks that may be necessary for some gamers.

[x6-sic-6x]

Great job St. Chaos! I have been waiting on you to post these From reading your posts it sounds like we play a very similar game as I am a Steelers guy too.. Can't wait to give these a shot, I'll post ya some feedback here in a bit after I try these out...

[Yoshikiuk]

I will try these in a minute, they look promising.

[Ironwolf1974]

Can I use 15 min qtrs with 25 second runoff?

PS Do you use gameplanning? Did you download and use Rockys gameplans?

[St. Chaos]

You can theoretically run whatever time settings you want to, I just havn't tested them that way. They're setup to handle 110-130 plays, if that's about how many you get with 15/25, then by all means go ahead

And yes, I use gameplans for both myself and the CPU.

I didn't test post-patch without CPU gameplans to see how it plays, but supposedly EA did some tweaking there. Even when I wasn't using gameplans for the CPU I was having good results though, but I feel like gameplans add a level of stability with the CPU that is critical for consistency with sliders.

[St. Chaos]

Sooooooo.... they that bad? or so good ya havn't had time to come back guys? lol

[DiceMan]

They are actually very good man...when I get a chance I'll post some stats and in depth info. Definitely like the feel of them though...I'm just trying to get a handle on what threshold I want to use.

[x6-sic-6x]

Quote: Originally Posted by St. Chaos

Sooooooo.... they that bad? or so good ya havn't had time to come back guys? lol

I've been busy as hell and only been able to get 1 game in so far but I plan on playing 2-3 games tonight (the wifes at school and I have some me time ...lol) will post some stats and feedback afterwards...