Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

[Geronimo22]

I want to get some pitching strategy talk going. Understanding pitching is understanding hitting and vice versa. I'd like to hear some guys opinions on what pitching strategies work (in real life as well).

After listening to the Yankee game two days ago, I wrote down some comments I heard Al Leiter mention. Some are probably basic ideas...

1) Righty on righty or lefty on lefty - fastballs on the inside half are common.

2) I never like throwing a 0-2 change up unless you are going to throw it outside and out of the zone, so you can go back inside on the next pitch to get the batter out.

[BIG17EASY]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

Those are both very basic tenets of pitching, although it's important for opposite-handed pitchers (righty facing a lefty hitter and vice versa) to get inside, as well. That's why so many lefties are now throwing a cutter that they can run inside on right-handed hitters to jam them.

Also, most pitchers don't like throwing any pitch in the strike zone on 0-2, not just changeups. When you're ahead in the count like that, it's best to get the hitter to chase a pitch for strike three rather than getting a called strike three. That way even if they make contact, the pitch is likely so far out of the zone that they don't make good contact.

[Joey]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

Some of my pitching strategies.

First time through the lineup, I try to show as little of my repertoire to the hitters as I can. If I have 4 pitches, I try to only show 2. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't, but the idea is to save something in order to mix it up the 2nd and 3rd times through.

I like to work out, then in. If I get 2 strikes on a batter, I'll try to get them to chase something outside. If they don't bite or if they foul it off, I'll then try to bust them inside. But you have to mix it up some or else the CPU will pick up a pattern.

If it's a dangerous hitter and you fall behind them, don't give in. Nibble on the outside corner and, if you hit it, great. But if not, a walk is a lot better than grooving one in a hitter's count.

If more comes to me, I'll add them later.

[jkra0512]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

Good strategies guys! I'm a guy who likes to change speeds often as well as the eye level of the hitter. To do that, like Joey said, throw only a few different pitches to start the game. For me, I like the fastball/changeup combo. THen slowing start showing your other offspeed stuff like curve, slurves, sliders, etc.

I also try to pitch to corners and not catch too much of the plate. If you know a batter's cold zone, attack them there to get ahead in the count. Having said that, getting ahead in the count and keeping the ball low are two axioms that player's shouldn't stray too far from, they're very important.

My favorite pitch sequence is going low fastball (strike), low fastball (strike), high fastball (ball), low outside with a changeup for the punch out. It's my absolutely favorite way of getting hitters out, doesn't happen all the time, but when my pitcher is on, he can make it rain all day.

[doubledeuceR6]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

I like the fastball / changeup combo as well along with an occasional backdoor slider. The slider works well in on the hands on 0-2 counts also, make sure you get in though or it'll get hit hard!

I stay down in the zone alot with an occasional fastball up out of the zone just to show something different. I'll use a curveball from time to time but I cringe everytime I throw it!

[C_Bailey24]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

I tend to pitch more to the outside on same sided batters and inside to opposite sided batters early in the bat. I heard one of the guys on MLB Network one time say "own the outside portion of the plate. So now i literally start off every same sided batter with something on the outside first time through the lineup and then adjust from there. I've also started to pick my battles more just like a real pitcher would as far as sometimes pitching around the top batters in the lineup when situation permits. Now of course when you're facing the Red Sox, Rangers, etc it's a little more difficult to do.

[Dogbarian]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

Commanding the low outside corner was the Leo Mazzone mantra (for you young'uns, he was the Atlanta pitching coach up until a few years ago). And the old school theory was fastballs up and in, breaking stuff low and away.

However, I think one of the more subtle reasons that pitching is getting more dominant is because pitchers are moving away from those simple strategies. Greg Maddux was among the first to throw a 2-seamer inside to lefties, where it would look like a fastball off the plate in on their hands, but the movement would break it back over the low inside corner for a called strike. Of course, he had the control to pull that off - if you miss and get too much of the plate, well, that's the wheelhouse for many lefty sluggers.

A few years ago, changeups became the popular pitch, because it was easier on the arm, easier to teach young pitchers to throw, and with good arm motion, was deceptive to the hitters because it showed fastball, but wasn't (and the movement down was just a plus). Now, cutters are becoming popular, because it gives slider behavior without the red "keyholing" indicator that the batter could see and pick up on.

It's all about deception - confusing the hitter, giving him he doesn't expect.

What I like to do for starters is use the fastball heavily on the first time through the lineup, and sparingly use my breaking stuff, usually as an out pitch, or early in the count to "show" it, as well as establish pitcher confidence in it. The second time through the lineup, I start them off with breaking pitches, to mix it up.

Another thing I do on the first time through the lineup is to throw strike 1 on the first pitch. Then, after several hitters, I start throwing the first pitch a little further off the plate, since they start getting more aggressive. And since I hate walks, I try to avoid nibbling too much. If I get to 0-2, I'm not throwing a strike, but when I get to 2-2, I am definitely trying to throw a strike. Tom Glavine, I'm not.

As far as aiming specific pitches, I keep the breaking pitches at the bottom of the strike zone and almost always aiming to have them either break out of the zone, or catch the edge. Getting a lot of the plate with soft stuff is a recipe for getting smacked. With the exception of burying sliders or cutters down and in, I rarely have my stuff breaking "towards" the hitter, although on occasion I will go for "back-door" pitches, aiming a slider to break in over the outside corner. As I said with the 2-seam though, if you are going to miss that pitch, miss outside, not over the plate.

For relievers, I typically use a pattern of 2 fastballs, then a breaking pitch, then alternate fastball and breaking pitch for the rest of the at-bat. And depending on what pitches I have, I'll use a different one based on the batter. For example, my lefty RTTS reliever has a 4SFB, slider, and circle change. He'll use the slider against lefty batters and the circle change against righty batters, probably 80% of the time (occasionally using the opposite pitch to cross up the hitters).

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

Pitches with similar movement, but varying velocity, can be deadly in this game.

Here are some combinations I love a starter having:

1. Cutter/Slider
2. 2-Seamer/Circle-Change
3. Straight Fastball/Straight Change
4. Curve/Slider

These allow the user to keep the hitter off balance. Show them the cutter just off the plate...show them the stright fastball in the same spot...then somewhere later in the at-bat, start the slider (all away) in the same spot as the two previous fastballs.

Like-movement pitches induce foul balls; getting the pitcher in 2 strike counts.

Along with this, starting pitches in similar areas of the strike zone are great for racking up K's.

A high and away straight fastball is a wonderful starting point for the high and away (I cannot emphasize AWAY enough. This curve has to be a ball) curveball to a like-handed hitter. The ball starts in the same place - same eye level - and can really fool a poor disciplined hitter.

I have PLENTY more to say on this subject, but it seems there's already some killer posts above me demonstrating the importance of in vs. out, up vs. down, and mixing speeds. All of which are essential to success.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

I heard this good little tidbit courtesy of Dave Valle on the Mariners' broadcast the other day... He told an anecdote about Catfish Hunter, and how he always threw what the catcher called for... And never shook him off. One day the catcher (I forget who it was) asked him why he never shook him off and Catfish replied, "It's not important what you throw, but where you throw it."

In other words, you can get away with just about any pitch if you throw it in the right spot. "The right spot" is dictated by the current scenario... The count, the previous pitch, previous at bat, who's at the plate, a pitcher's arsenal, etc.

A hitter is trying to lock in on the speed and location of a pitch, and anything you can do to disrupt that will be to your benefit.

As I understand it Catfish also liked to get in on a hitter's hands, to keep him from getting extended... And that's a really basic tenant of pitching... Get in on a hitter and it will open up the outside of the plate, because it's really tough for a hitter to cover both the inside and outside of the plate.

[housemikin]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

I know most you guys know this but BALLS are not just "missed STRIKES"

you can use BALLS to set up your next pitch, works for me most of the time...


- I use curveballs as a surprise pitch more than a strike out pitch
- I prefer to be aggresive up in the zone instead of down whenever I need a strike
- I rarely put a changeup in the zone, and if I do, just on the corners
- backdoor cutter and inside cutters are my best friends after a failed changeup,curveball strikeout pitch
- lefty against lefty, I like those sliders/fastball inside and finish with a changeup outside. Works best with a high velocity lefty

[ChopTalk]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

I tend to stick with the ole' low away philosophy. Usually the first 2 innings I'll stick with fastball type pitches, (2seamer, cutter, rfb, sinker, etc.) and only one off speed. Usually a change up but if the guy has a nice curveball I'll use it.

Usually its fastballs low and away, sneaking one inside well off the plate, righty vs. righty, then I'll come back with a change up low and away, then a slider coming back over the plate inside.

The curveball I never use as a strikeout pitch, i have no luck with it. Usually it's used as a get me over pitch for the first strike, i've found it locks up most hitters unless you'lve done it a few times. I'll usually do it two to three times the first three innings, then the opening pitch a high fastball for a inning or two, then the curve again.

Next game I may never use a curve. I nibble the corners and walk three to four a game, but I average giving up around 2.94 runs a game with my starting staff, I average 3.01 runs scored a game.

Currently tied for first with the Marlins in the NL EAST. Yes my era is low, but its on track witht he real braves.

[Geronimo22]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

Great stuff above guys. I'm going to be referring to this thread a lot! Anybody have any advice how to use a Sinker ball pitcher? I have Mike Pelfrey who has a good 4SFB and Sinker. He is a low 90's guys. And he has a decent slider that can be used sparely. Thanks guys!0

[ChopTalk]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

Great stuff above guys. I'm going to be referring to this thread a lot! Anybody have any advice how to use a Sinker ball pitcher? I have Mike Pelfrey who has a good 4SFB and Sinker. He is a low 90's guys. And he has a decent slider that can be used sparely. Thanks guys!0

What are his other pitches? I have Derek Lowe and Tim Hudson on my squad, both sinker pitchers. They each have a sinker, 4 seamer, circle change, and slider.

For the first time through the order I use solely the 4 seamer up in the zone and sinker low and away... once I get towards the bottom of the order I start slowly using a back door slider every once and awhile.

Then when I get to the pitcher, I send over a first pitch fastball, then the rest of the at bat is offspeed to build up confidence.

After that I just use the 4 seamer inside and sinker low and away, followed by changeups low and away. The slider is used to back door the corner, or to get the batter to chase a slider tailing away.

Pretty much just keep the sinker a away and down, try to place the circle change in the same spots and it usually will fool the batter.

I average 8 strikeouts a game, and walk 3. My era through 40 games is 3.21..

[spit_bubble]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

...Anybody have any advice how to use a Sinker ball pitcher? I have Mike Pelfrey who has a good 4SFB and Sinker...

This brings up another point about pitching... Don't know if this has been brought up already, but... Most pitchers use their fast balls to set up their other pitches...

So for a guy with a sinker as his secondary pitch, you could throw your fastball low in the zone... And if you get ahead in the count, or in a situation where you think a hitter is looking fastball, you could throw your sinker low so that it starts in the zone but then sinks out of the zone... The idea being that the hitter will be fooled into thinking it's another fastball low and will take a swing at it.

Some pitchers will pitch backwards... That is to say, they will use another pitch besides a fastball to set up their fastball. Jamie Moyer was/is a good example of this. He would throw a ton of change ups away... Get the hitter's timing into thinking a change up was on the way... Then throw a fastball in.

Again, a hitter is trying to lock in to the timing and location of a pitch... So your job as a pitcher is to disrupt that.

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Food For Thought - Pitching Strategies

This game is ALL about pitcher confidence. When it gets high/low it seemingly trumps player ratings. So, early on try for K's so the confidence gets high so that later in the game the batters' contact is reduced (when your control is fading).

Your approach should be different based on the pitcher.

Get ahead in the count however you can. If they hit the 1st pitch ... great, they're helping you out.

Changeups in hitters counts are great.

When ahead, high velocity guys should pound in and/or up with the heat off the plate. That seems to be where the AI chases the most.

Offspeed pitches seem better as first strike pitches rather than put away pitches. I get a lot of early grounders with those pitches, wheras with 2-strikes they most often get fouled off (repeatedly).

Cutters and sliders seem like the most effective pitches in the game which is very realistic (according to pitch value data). Plus you can use them on either side of the plate, either starting on the corner and slicing out, or backdoor moving into the zone.

Sinkers and 2-seamers are also highly effective at inducing weak contact, also very realistic. Moving low and in to same-handed batters just kills the grass (lots of grounders), and running away or backdoor seems to get a lot of weak pulled contact.

Curveballs, IMO, are almost worthless due to how hard they are to control (sorta realitic). Batters don't chase them down, and if you miss over the plate ... good-bye baseball. But not a bad first pitch if you can aim corner and miss just off the plate (if you miss).

Changeups down seem much more effective against human batters than AI batters.

Fastballs in the upper corners are good first pitches as well. The PCI is rarely there so if there's contact it's a foul or pop-up.