Home

Madden ratings and Simulation football.

This is a discussion on Madden ratings and Simulation football. within the Madden NFL Football forums.

Go Back   Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football
MLB The Show 24 Review: Another Solid Hit for the Series
New Star GP Review: Old-School Arcade Fun
Where Are Our College Basketball Video Game Rumors?
View Poll Results: Do you think this is an idea worth exploring?
Yes 23 82.14%
No 1 3.57%
An alternative option (Explain) 4 14.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-14-2017, 03:54 AM   #1
Rookie
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: May 2012
Madden ratings and Simulation football.

The Ratings System needs to change.

There needs to be, I guess, a "rating" system, but it needs to be hidden from the user if you want an experience akin to reality.

Instead of having a rating like "99 speed" that is blatant and absolute, have the user determine a players speed through test times (40ydDash, 60ydDash etc.) and agility through the same means(3 cone drill etc.).
You can do all kind of tests for players to determine their statistical ability/potential but like in real life, there will be a difference in practice results and in game results/ performance. For rookies, you can get combine times, pro-day results, and for the most in depth and customized(user selected) individual workout results tailored to which area of their game you want to find out about.

Obviously for this to be realistic, not only would the results have to be inconclusive of actual in game persormance but merely a guide, there would also have to be time and rule constraints such as we have in real life. So things like, the 30 player individual workout limit(league rules), the fact that there are only 16 work hours in a day, and even less so training hours.
So this would be a great chance to implement a coach-delegation system. As head coach, you could assign jobs for coordinators and more specifically position coaches to, in the preseason or when looking at a possible signing, run them through tests while giving the user head coach the ability to select which drills and tests they want their assistant coaches to run, with each drill or test taking up "X" amount of time from your day.

Another thing that would need to be added if this was implemented would be a "Player injury history" as removing a visible "injury rating", you would need to see if a player is often injured, the time they've spent out, and the severity of their injuries. Also, injuries could/would also then have an impact on a players performance without it distinctly telling you "Joe Blogs has lost 5 agility points after tearing his Achilles. Rather, you might put Joe back in the game after a seasons injury lay off and feel as if he isn't as good in coverage and decide to test his agility to find out if he's lost a few seconds off his 3 cone drill time from last year for example.

I feel it would just add a lot more meaning and require more in depth evaluation of players rather than just receiving a number grade from 1-99 for any and every attribute.

With the newly revealed Arcade, SIM, and Competitive game modes, which I assume apply strictly to game play, you could expand these from simply game play to complete franchise play style. Arcade and Competitive being normal "Madden ratings", and Simulation being a rating-less game mode where the players you sign, draft, train and release are all decisions based off your perception of a players ability through testing, practice performance, and most importantly game performance, rather than an absolute number provided by a computer system.

For me this would make the game so much more interesting and a billion times deeper.

"Do I sign this guy who has not performed well in "X team's" system but has showed incredible athleticism and potential?"

"Do I release this promising athlete after his game performance is nowhere close to his practice performance?"

"Do I draft Joe Blogs who was a slug at the combine, but has unrivaled production in college?"

These are things that would make decisions in CFM much more exciting because you don't truly know how a player will turn out, with Madden ratings, you know exactly what you are getting, what you have, and what you're getting rid of, this is not how real football works.

For attributes that can't be "tested" like an ability to break a tackle, play recognition, awareness etc. you can use your own discretion to evaluate a players ability, and more importantly delegate the evaluation to your position coaches who give you feedback on the players they are coaching. As the head coach, you would still have the ability to overrule the position coach, as well as hiring and firing them based on the accuracy of their evaluations and development they provide for their players.

I know Ratings are a part of the cultural popularity of Madden, so they need not be removed at all, but there should be a setting on CFM that enables them "hidden" for a more realistic NFL experience. I understand this would take a while to implement fully, but I think it would add a world of depth, excitement, and intrigue to the CFM mode.

Thoughts?
wicko72 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 05-14-2017, 04:17 AM   #2
MVP
 
ForUntoOblivionSoar∞'s Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Dec 2009
Re: Madden ratings and Simulation football.

(a) For rookies in Franchise, you already get combine results, and they correlate pretty well with ratings. So, to implement what you suggest, all you would need is to replace ratings with combine results.

(b) I do NOT like the idea of the user having to do combine drills to determine ratings. That will be cool two times and then turn into busy work thereafter.

(c) All you have to do to make ratings seem more realistic is to do the following two things: (1) Have combine results available in the roster view, and (2) replace 1-99 ratings with Very Bad, Bad, Average, Good, Great, and Elite, where there is wiggle room at each partition (allowing for variance that isn't exactly quantified). These two things together would give you a very good idea about how fast a player is without putting it into a specific numerical rating.

As for things that aren't measured in the combine, all you have to do is the exact same rating scale listed above: Very Bad, Bad, Average, Good, Great, and Elite. This is more or less exactly what scouting services do anyway (although some use numerical rankings, some add brief descriptions, and so on).


So, you can have mostly hidden ratings without forcing the user to "test" every player. Essentially all you would have to do is effectively replace 1-99 with combine and scouting reports, like I suggest above.

In fact, you could still use a number system, just one that only has a few partitions, i.e., 1-6, where 6 would contain all the elite players in that category, and once again there would be variance (but combine numbers would help distinguish between players in each category, and of course this information would be presented on the roster screen).

How this would look in the roster screen is you'd layer each position vertically, and to the right of that column you would list each player's combine numbers followed by their ranking (bad, elite, good, etc., or 1-6 or 7 if you wanted).


But making the player do extra work to determine ratings would not be fun at all, except as a draft thing.
ForUntoOblivionSoar∞ is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 11:05 AM   #3
Rookie
 
iFnotWhyNoT's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Jun 2015
Re: Madden ratings and Simulation football.

Ratings have become bigger than just a number for "gamer's" to decipher a players value, they have turned into a marketing tool where rookies,vets, and even current hof'ers talk about there Madden rating when they played. You don't need to get rid of it but what you can do is give Franchise users an option in the settings to, as you suggested, "hide" overall ratings and replace them with either letter grades for individual attributes or notes.

It's the best solution for everyone, once you start a Franchise ratings will fluctuate anyway and you no longer care about "knowing" a players play now rating in roster updates. Also, for new gamer's or even hardcore gamer's that don't like the new hidden system the original option is still available.

They need to give us more options for a full simulation style franchise while still keeping the game newbie friendly.
iFnotWhyNoT is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 11:07 AM   #4
MVP
 
Toupal's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: May 2014
Re: Madden ratings and Simulation football.

I do love the idea of scratching the rating system and subbing it for combine results. However the idea of replacing those features with "bad, good, great" doesn't give you that great of an idea.

I don't mind the rating system, however I believe that the rating system should not be absolute. I believe a players ratings should reflect what your scout team tells you.

For example, if you have a franchise where you are the 49ers, and it is the 2017 offseason,, and you are looking for a new QB. Your team just brought in a new GM, scouts, coaches, and a Head Coach. Each of those people that are new to the organization, are going to look at the current roster a little bit differently than the previous regime.

Trent Baalke and Chip Kelly may have valued the players differently than John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan. Where the old staff may have viewed Colin Kaepernick as an 85 overall, the new staff may view him as a 65 overall.

Baalke may have viewed Brian Hoyer as a 72 overall, but Lynch views him as an 80 overall, and views him as a good QB replacement in the free agency.

Along with their whole at QB they needed filled, they didn't value QB free agents or draft prospects all that valuable. Where as the Chicago Bears GM and scouts viewed Mike Glennon more valuable and would see his ratings higher than most other teams in the FA.

Additionally, when it comes to the draft, YOUR scout teams' GM's quality to evaluate prospects will show.

If you have a great scout team/ GM, it will show you as close to accurate ratings as possible.
Where if you have a bad GM or ST, ratings will be all over the place.

What it comes down to, is I think the rating system is fine, however I would like to coaches, scouts, and GM's matter in evaluating talent. The better the GM, the more accurate ratings you will see.
Toupal is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 11:08 AM   #5
MVP
 
StefJoeHalt's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Hartford, Ct
Re: Madden ratings and Simulation football.

Love the idea moving away from 0-99..even more so since 0-50 pretty much aren't used..LOVE ForUtoOblivionSoar's idea..what smaller number grades and comment grades leave wiggle room for you as the GM/coach to make decisions on who is better..and to be clear they can just use there current ratings system in the background..and removing the visual of the ratings would allow for the screen to be cleaned up and could be filled with stats..plus I think removing the ratings would allow for bad human coaching moves..also think removing overalls with something like "starter, career backup, etc" would help..but the likelihood it has is at about .0000001%..but love the idea


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports
__________________
Rule #1: Never leave a fellow Crasher behind. Crashers take care of their own.
Rule #2: Never use your real name.
Rule #15: Fight the urge to tell the truth.
Rule #30: Know the playbook so you can call an audible.
Twitter: @318TA621
StefJoeHalt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisements - Register to remove
Old 05-14-2017, 12:33 PM   #6
Rookie
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Apr 2017
Re: Madden ratings and Simulation football.

For Franchise mode the rating system needs to be hidden for the user. 0-99 will still be use in behind the scene.

1) The use of a coaching staff. Each team will have position coach who would provide text feedback for the user in the players information card, example would be a report card A-F on key ratings that affect that position and a short description of player strengths and weakness. example "X player has great arm strength, but has sub par accuracy". "X player runs through arm tackles, but is prone to fumbles"

2) Coaching Staff will also have a report card to show which rating they can evaluate, to determine the accuracy of evaluating the report card for the user. Great position coaches will give you the truest description and report for each player to give the user the best options. A+ coach will give you the most accurate report card while C- coach will not accurately display the players report, they might over value a rating or under vale a rating. This used to also build a good coaching staff.

3) Player role and archetype: This use to build your team have you like it, power run team or a high passing offense. The player role will describe if he is a: superstar, pro bowler, starter, rookie, role player, bench, Over the Hill. These change over the players career.

4) Physical ratings will use the players combine stats. Physical ratings cannot be improved except for strength, The combine result on a player info card will always display the same numbers through out his career, so a 4.3 40 time player will always show 4.3 40 time even when he is 30+ years of age. Position coach will let the user know if player has decreased physically. Example "X player has lost step with age" "injury has caused player lose his speed"

5) Drafting will be similar using scouts to determine accuracy of draftees. and use a points or hours spent on draftees to give the best report card.

6) Progression: Report card are evaluated every 4 weeks, XP system is gone.
Report card will be base on initial ratings(past years) and performance in practice and in games. Good position coaches will get the best performances in practice to help players grow to produce in games to increase players report cards.

This is design to give user more risk in Franchise mode to build a team, whether to re-sign a ageing veteran hoping he'll still produce or draft that top 5 pick that he won't be a bust. User can evaluate the players themselves when playing the game, to determine who they like and don't like, whether you made a smart move or a dumb move.
ASZEMPLE is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 01:40 PM   #7
Rookie
 
SpyPirates's Arena
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: Dec 2014
Re: Madden ratings and Simulation football.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASZEMPLE
For Franchise mode the rating system needs to be hidden for the user. 0-99 will still be use in behind the scene.

1) The use of a coaching staff. Each team will have position coach who would provide text feedback for the user in the players information card, example would be a report card A-F on key ratings that affect that position and a short description of player strengths and weakness. example "X player has great arm strength, but has sub par accuracy". "X player runs through arm tackles, but is prone to fumbles"

2) Coaching Staff will also have a report card to show which rating they can evaluate, to determine the accuracy of evaluating the report card for the user. Great position coaches will give you the truest description and report for each player to give the user the best options. A+ coach will give you the most accurate report card while C- coach will not accurately display the players report, they might over value a rating or under vale a rating. This used to also build a good coaching staff.

3) Player role and archetype: This use to build your team have you like it, power run team or a high passing offense. The player role will describe if he is a: superstar, pro bowler, starter, rookie, role player, bench, Over the Hill. These change over the players career.

4) Physical ratings will use the players combine stats. Physical ratings cannot be improved except for strength, The combine result on a player info card will always display the same numbers through out his career, so a 4.3 40 time player will always show 4.3 40 time even when he is 30+ years of age. Position coach will let the user know if player has decreased physically. Example "X player has lost step with age" "injury has caused player lose his speed"

5) Drafting will be similar using scouts to determine accuracy of draftees. and use a points or hours spent on draftees to give the best report card.

6) Progression: Report card are evaluated every 4 weeks, XP system is gone.
Report card will be base on initial ratings(past years) and performance in practice and in games. Good position coaches will get the best performances in practice to help players grow to produce in games to increase players report cards.

This is design to give user more risk in Franchise mode to build a team, whether to re-sign a ageing veteran hoping he'll still produce or draft that top 5 pick that he won't be a bust. User can evaluate the players themselves when playing the game, to determine who they like and don't like, whether you made a smart move or a dumb move.
I like this system the best. Along with it, they would need to expand off season activities, allow for robust customization of what intangible skills your coaches are teaching in practices, and have coaches vary widely in effectiveness/specialties.

One critique I have is that we really need to get away from having game performances have such a large impact on ratings. Not only is it unrealistic, it produces warped incentives that frequently have me disappointed that I've just scored a rushing TD with my QB (worth very little in terms of XP), or mad that my 4th string vet WR scored a TD (not a priority development project, and due to his age not going to be worth much XP). Leave the progression to offseason workouts and game prep, and let us enjoy playing the game without feeling like you're in an arcade game having to run up the score to get XP.
__________________
Cow. Boys.
SpyPirates is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 03:51 PM   #8
Rookie
 
OVR: 0
Join Date: May 2012
Re: Madden ratings and Simulation football.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASZEMPLE
For Franchise mode the rating system needs to be hidden for the user. 0-99 will still be use in behind the scene.

1) The use of a coaching staff. Each team will have position coach who would provide text feedback for the user in the players information card, example would be a report card A-F on key ratings that affect that position and a short description of player strengths and weakness. example "X player has great arm strength, but has sub par accuracy". "X player runs through arm tackles, but is prone to fumbles"

2) Coaching Staff will also have a report card to show which rating they can evaluate, to determine the accuracy of evaluating the report card for the user. Great position coaches will give you the truest description and report for each player to give the user the best options. A+ coach will give you the most accurate report card while C- coach will not accurately display the players report, they might over value a rating or under vale a rating. This used to also build a good coaching staff.

3) Player role and archetype: This use to build your team have you like it, power run team or a high passing offense. The player role will describe if he is a: superstar, pro bowler, starter, rookie, role player, bench, Over the Hill. These change over the players career.

4) Physical ratings will use the players combine stats. Physical ratings cannot be improved except for strength, The combine result on a player info card will always display the same numbers through out his career, so a 4.3 40 time player will always show 4.3 40 time even when he is 30+ years of age. Position coach will let the user know if player has decreased physically. Example "X player has lost step with age" "injury has caused player lose his speed"

5) Drafting will be similar using scouts to determine accuracy of draftees. and use a points or hours spent on draftees to give the best report card.

6) Progression: Report card are evaluated every 4 weeks, XP system is gone.
Report card will be base on initial ratings(past years) and performance in practice and in games. Good position coaches will get the best performances in practice to help players grow to produce in games to increase players report cards.

This is design to give user more risk in Franchise mode to build a team, whether to re-sign a ageing veteran hoping he'll still produce or draft that top 5 pick that he won't be a bust. User can evaluate the players themselves when playing the game, to determine who they like and don't like, whether you made a smart move or a dumb move.
Yes, this is pretty much dead on what the system would look like, excellently put. Rex Dickson where you at?
wicko72 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

« Operation Sports Forums > Football > Madden NFL Football »


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:46 AM.
Top -