What's the future of Ratings in Madden?

[feeq14]

Verts just released a nice interview with Rex about the future of Madden that at least for me has me excited for next years game and the future of the game.

One of the things that Rex hints at is that in order to further the sim nature of the game and improve AI, they might have to revisit how player ratings work.

I think the community has played around with this idea before, but I don't know if we've fleshed it out much.


I recall All Pro Football...I think it was 2011 maybe. They didn't have numbered ratings. Their players just had traits. I never played it so I don't know what the game play felt like, but I think that might be the future for differentiating how ai players work.

If you ask me i think they should consider skill trees with perks, passives, specializations and other RPG concepts. This would definitely add to the intrigue of player CFM. And considering the highly meticulous nature of CFM guys, it'd really scratch our itch.

Like let's say you have a cornerback (to me the most impressive position to be dominant at in all of sports). All players might have their skill tree separated into a few areas like Athleticism, techniques, intangibles. And each area will have a skill tree based on the positon. So for a cornerback, under athleticism there might be a perk for something like "closing speed" corners with closing speed may get beat on a route and give up a catch, but they can easily close while the ball is in the air. This would make those frustrating drag routes less dangerous against guys who have this (I'm thinking Patrick Peterson types).

Let's say you get a certain level on all the skill trees (think your 90 plus type rated players in the game) Then you can get a specialization class designation that reconnects to the scheme stuff we see in the game now, but you can only really choose one. For example if you have a high enough athleticism rank and you max out man coverage skills under intangibles, you can get the "Corner Island" perk which will give you huge boosts in man coverage calls against anyone but at the cost of int chance and tackling (think Darrell Revis who was never an INT machine). OR if you have a high enough athletics skill, good man and zone coverage skills, and then really high intangibles, you can spec into the "playmaker" perk which gives you a huge boost on hitting power, strip ball, int chance, and even elusiveness, juke, and spin moves on big 3rd downs and in the 4th quarter (I'm thinking Marcus Peters, Charles Tillman), but you'll never truly shut down high level receivers.

Something close to this would really change the way people build their teams, even in MUT, cause now if you are a guy that run's a certain scheme, you can meticulously build and tailor your players to fit that scheme to a high enough level that it forces opponents to play differently. The 06 Bears Cover 2 was so perfect with such perfect personnel that teams redesigned their offenses in order to stand a chance and just hopped for Rex Grossman to mess up. That super bowl, Joeseph Addai set a record for receptions for a running back because Peyton Manning would not throw deep and they checked down under the Cover 2 shell the entire game cause they couldn't throw over it or in between it. The Bears lost that year because they didn't adjust (and becuase Rex Grossman)


That's just something that jumped in my head when Rex mentioned that ratings were probably not the future. What other ideas do you guys think are feasible going forward?

[Toupal]

Quote: Originally Posted by feeq14

Verts just released a nice interview with Rex about the future of Madden that at least for me has me excited for next years game and the future of the game. One of the things that Rex hints at is that in order to further the sim nature of the game and improve AI, they might have to revisit how player ratings work. I think the community has played around with this idea before, but I don't know if we've fleshed it out much. I recall All Pro Football...I think it was 2011 maybe. They didn't have numbered ratings. Their players just had traits. I never played it so I don't know what the game play felt like, but I think that might be the future for differentiating how ai players work. If you ask me i think they should consider skill trees with perks, passives, specializations and other RPG concepts. This would definitely add to the intrigue of player CFM. And considering the highly meticulous nature of CFM guys, it'd really scratch our itch. Like let's say you have a cornerback (to me the most impressive position to be dominant at in all of sports). All players might have their skill tree separated into a few areas like Athleticism, techniques, intangibles. And each area will have a skill tree based on the positon. So for a cornerback, under athleticism there might be a perk for something like "closing speed" corners with closing speed may get beat on a route and give up a catch, but they can easily close while the ball is in the air. This would make those frustrating drag routes less dangerous against guys who have this (I'm thinking Patrick Peterson types). Let's say you get a certain level on all the skill trees (think your 90 plus type rated players in the game) Then you can get a specialization class designation that reconnects to the scheme stuff we see in the game now, but you can only really choose one. For example if you have a high enough athleticism rank and you max out man coverage skills under intangibles, you can get the "Corner Island" perk which will give you huge boosts in man coverage calls against anyone but at the cost of int chance and tackling (think Darrell Revis who was never an INT machine). OR if you have a high enough athletics skill, good man and zone coverage skills, and then really high intangibles, you can spec into the "playmaker" perk which gives you a huge boost on hitting power, strip ball, int chance, and even elusiveness, juke, and spin moves on big 3rd downs and in the 4th quarter (I'm thinking Marcus Peters, Charles Tillman), but you'll never truly shut down high level receivers. Something close to this would really change the way people build their teams, even in MUT, cause now if you are a guy that run's a certain scheme, you can meticulously build and tailor your players to fit that scheme to a high enough level that it forces opponents to play differently. The 06 Bears Cover 2 was so perfect with such perfect personnel that teams redesigned their offenses in order to stand a chance and just hopped for Rex Grossman to mess up. That super bowl, Joeseph Addai set a record for receptions for a running back because Peyton Manning would not throw deep and they checked down under the Cover 2 shell the entire game cause they couldn't throw over it or in between it. The Bears lost that year because they didn't adjust (and becuase Rex Grossman) That's just something that jumped in my head when Rex mentioned that ratings were probably not the future. What other ideas do you guys think are feasible going forward?

I like this idea...

The thing that always bothered me with Madden is that the ratings are too close together, and their isn’t much separation from the legends (Peyton Manning) and the average NFL player (Rex Grossman)

[briz1046]

Whilst I, like most here would relish the addition of more ratings and traits where appropriate in order to better represent varying player styles and abilities the examples given by the OP in my opinion appear her *video gamey* and artificial ...this may appeal for MUT players but for myself at least don't belong in any genuine attempt at simulation style

Whilst I feel Madden does a decent job in differentiating physical abilities ( with the exception of strength imo) it is less adept at representing different levels of football IQ ( or however you prefer to phrase it)

The general level of CPU AI in the game is not at a sufficiently high level whereby adequate spreading of ratings such as AWR or PRG doesn't result in stupidity at the lower end of the spectrum .Hence the difficulty in representing a tom brady vs. rex grossman scenario

[49erscott]

I think a way to differentiate players more and improve ratings is to massively expand the number of ratings - primarily by dividing up existing ones. They are currently too broad and leave a lot of players feeling the same.

This is a few examples of how things should be broken down imo. The great thing is that there are available analytics on almost all, if not all of these things, that I'm sure EA can get access to from someone like PFF to help.

QB accuracy: Instead of just being short, medium and deep, it should also be divided into left, centre and right. Some QBs are less accurate to certain areas of the field, largely for mechanical reasons. This reflects that and makes you tailor your play calling and offense more

Route running: Split into each route that a guy can run, ie. slant route running, post route running. This differentiates much better between guys who run a larger route tree, but also means that for certain guys, they can be utilised in a very specific way on routes that they are good at.

Pass rushing moves: Power move and finesse move need to be split into the actual moves. If my pass rusher is a great bull rusher I want that reflected, if he's just an edge bender I want that reflected by a lack of other moves. If he's really tooled up, I also want that reflected

Zone coverage: Split into the different zones a guy can be asked to do. Ie seam flat, hook zone, mid-read, deep centre, deep boundary etc.

Man coverage: Split into the different routes a guy can face. Some players are awful at in breaking/out breaking routes but better at the opposite. Some are good against slower developing but are rubbish vs slants. Should be reflected

Run/pass blocking blocking: Not all blocking is the same. For run blocking, are they better suited to a power scheme or a zone scheme? As a pass blocker, are they good against speed and/or power? Should be reflected as well.


These are just a few examples, it could go far deeper. With this, the players start feeling much more unique and very few guys will truly feel the same. You'll have to know your team well, and match them to your tendencies

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Toupal

I like this idea... The thing that always bothered me with Madden is that the ratings are too close together, and their isn’t much separation from the legends (Peyton Manning) and the average NFL player (Rex Grossman)

There was work done on this in 18.

There is a big difference between CPU Rodgers and CPU Brett Hundley this year. I've held the the Fitzpatrick's of the NFL to 50% passing , but get burned by Brady with 80% passing this year.

An area they could improve on in that area is the off the mark throws.

Feeq is on the right track, but I don't think anyone wants an RPG type system around here, and I am not sure if XP is going anywhere, but, let's hope so.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by 49erscott

I think a way to differentiate players more and improve ratings is to massively expand the number of ratings - primarily by dividing up existing ones. They are currently too broad and leave a lot of players feeling the same. This is a few examples of how things should be broken down imo. The great thing is that there are available analytics on almost all, if not all of these things, that I'm sure EA can get access to from someone like PFF to help. QB accuracy: Instead of just being short, medium and deep, it should also be divided into left, centre and right. Some QBs are less accurate to certain areas of the field, largely for mechanical reasons. This reflects that and makes you tailor your play calling and offense more Route running: Split into each route that a guy can run, ie. slant route running, post route running. This differentiates much better between guys who run a larger route tree, but also means that for certain guys, they can be utilised in a very specific way on routes that they are good at. Pass rushing moves: Power move and finesse move need to be split into the actual moves. If my pass rusher is a great bull rusher I want that reflected, if he's just an edge bender I want that reflected by a lack of other moves. If he's really tooled up, I also want that reflected Zone coverage: Split into the different zones a guy can be asked to do. Ie seam flat, hook zone, mid-read, deep centre, deep boundary etc. Man coverage: Split into the different routes a guy can face. Some players are awful at in breaking/out breaking routes but better at the opposite. Some are good against slower developing but are rubbish vs slants. Should be reflected Run/pass blocking blocking: Not all blocking is the same. For run blocking, are they better suited to a power scheme or a zone scheme? As a pass blocker, are they good against speed and/or power? Should be reflected as well. These are just a few examples, it could go far deeper. With this, the players start feeling much more unique and very few guys will truly feel the same. You'll have to know your team well, and match them to your tendencies

This is a good idea. I know NFL corners are rated by how well they cover different routes. And of course a great QB can hit certain out routes and fades, while the lesser QB is going to be less effective.

Defensive line has player who are great at 1 gap, but not two, and vice-versa...SOme can do both...

[briz1046]

I'd welcome splitting the pass rush and blocking into separate ratings ...not so sure about the others though tbh

Pretty sure Maddens ROUTE rating is more about how much separation a WR gets when making cuts than any real measure of route running knowledge or ability anyway
The others while I'm sure based in fact don't really seem necessary ...I'd opt instead for more threshold levels in the current ratingwith greater diversity of animation at each level
To me the most glaring need is an increase in CPU AI levels across the board ... offering more potential to distinguish smarter players from the rest without the lower echelons becoming totally moronic ...especially in regards to QB and safety play

[Rayzaa]

Pretty sure not much, if anything will change. It's just another that after years of making this game there are still issues. My kicking stats still don't show up. My kicker is 0-0 in FG attempts half way thru the season after having a 4-4 game lol.