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JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

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Old 07-28-2019, 09:51 PM   #1
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JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

I am resurrecting this thread as Madden 20 is one of my favorite (if not THE favorite) Madden game since the 1990s. I have gone back to this game, and have "modernized" (if you will) my "take" on an appropriate slider setup for this game. One of my close buddies and I have been enjoying the crap out of this game and I wanted to share this joy with all of you. I have recently completed a season (in just a few days) on M20; something I had been unable to do on either M22 or M23 for various reasons. I'm not going to turn this into a "bash M23" post, but I will, later in this post, do some compare/contrast.

Let's address the proverbial "elephant in the room". M20 is no longer available via EA Play or in the Playstation or XBox store. If you previously purchased the game, you will still have access to it. However, if you do not already own a digital copy of the game, you will need to buy it on disc (a used copy at a gaming store should not run you too much).

My general goals for Madden are quite simple:
- I want ratings to matter
- I do NOT want artificial mechanisms to interfere with ratings aside from organically derived mechanisms like morale (and even those need to be moderate)
- I want to see injuries and penalties (I'm not necessarily looking for a 1:1 match to what we see IRL, but they need to be there)
- I play the CPU straight-up without cheese. In that context, I want tough games. I want to be beat without beating myself.
- I want to see defensive stops that are not strictly a function of sacks and turnovers.
- I want to see variety in games from defensive battles to shootouts to blowouts

Madden 20 has checked every one of these boxes for me. I went 1-15 in season 1 with the Giants (suffering through Eli's last season while Daniel Jones was developing as the number 2). Games were tough, the CPU run game devastating, but we had chances in many games; many decided by just a handful of plays (or even inches). This game gives me an illusion that I am playing football; something current titles have been unable to provide me. Now, let's get to the setup.

The Setup
Here is the basic setup we will be using for Madden 20. You will set these first in the main menu and then import into your franchise. I suggest shutting down the game the first time you set these in the main menu and reboot the game to ensure these settings load-up properly.

Offline CFM
All Pro/Sim
10 min quarters, no acc clock
Assists - Ballhawk and Autoflip defense must be on, all other assists off
Injuries - 40
Fatigue - 50
Threshold - 50
Gameplay Sliders/Penalties - all 50 or turned "on"
Superstar abilities - OFF (set this in the franchise setup screen - more on this below)

Someone may ask, "why are you using 40 Injury for this game when you said to not go above 26 Injury for Madden 23"? Good question but simple answer. Madden 20's franchise mode's default injury value is 40 - so THIS particular game has been tuned (by EA) around that value.

Turning Off Superstar Abilities is Key
As you all may remember, Madden 20 introduced the concept of Superstar abilities and X-Factor abilities. Some of them were quite overpowered (e.g. Enforcer) but they did provide a little added flash. What we did not realize at the time is that enabling abilities has some sort of a core impact on the gameplay - it really seems to open up the game (to a fault) and gives it an arcade-like feel. When I went back into M20 here recently, I wanted to see how the game would respond to turning these off - I was floored in the best way possible. The game has its moments where it "feels like Madden", but holistically, this game is a truly fun experience that has much stronger sim vibes than any Madden made since.

Comparison of Madden 20 vs M23 - Gameplay

- The is an "old gen movement" title. OK, I know some of you will scream that CG movement is "more realistic" in terms of footplanting. You're right and this is why M23 is the inferior title. Huh? What do you mean Josh? The old movement (and "canned" 2-man animations) actually work better for the game. The juke moves are more exaggerated for example, but it is because of this that the CPU can really make you miss and it makes their offenses much more dangerous (and fun to play against). The defensive 2-man animations actually work well in creating tight coverage windows at the point of catch; it not only makes catches more varied, but also adds to that "illusion". M23 no longer uses these and because of this, catch outcomes have a very binary feel (receiver catches it or it is a pick). The one wart of the old movement is that sharp cuts can be handled a bit wonkily in coverage. You can get separation in routes featuring a hard change of direction - but in my experience, the relative coverage ratings are crucial here (as coverage defenders can absolutely still stick to routes).

- M20 CPU QBs are not overly effective at scrambling. Few QBs in this game scramble. I'm collecting data right now to see if I can suss-out any specific trends, but I think it is tied directly to the QB archetype (which is based on ratings) vs traits. This is going to have to be a concession you accept. But in reality, the CPU does such a good job moving the ball, I'm not bothered TOO much by this.

- Lineplay. OK, so lineplay doesn't look as good on M20. You can also do the MUT-style scramble out of the pocket crap sometimes (if you abuse that, that's on you). That said, from an outcomes perspective, it holds up well-enough on M20. There's a balance to it even if it doesn't look quite as pretty as M23. But, M23's lineplay looks very scripted while M20s blocking looks messier and forces fast choices when making moves (something I appreciate) with defenders that close quickly if they are good.

- The "little things". I've seen a wider variety of penalties in M20 (pass interference calls, facemasks, holding, offsides, fals starts, roughing, etc.). Frequencies are predictably not in-line with real life, but there are just enough to have an impact. I do suspect that this will improve as we flush real players out of CFM. On the injury front, I have seen QB injuries (on scrambles) and a lot more RB injuries (though not egregious) than 23.

- QB (in)accuracy - this is done really well. You will flat-out miss short throws quite organically with mediocre QBs but can dissect defenses with elite QBs. Same goes for the CPU.

All of this adds up to an experience that is fun, challenging (for us AP guys), and ratings-based while keeping a larger proportion of "simulation" elements than current games. I fully expect my Giants rebuild to take a good 4-5 seasons before we have a chance to be a championship contender; which is exactly what I want.

Comparison of Madden 20 vs M23 - Franchise Mode

OK, I am going to be blunt. M20's franchise mode is miles better than M23.

"But Josh, tHeY AdDeD mOrE StUFf". Yes, they added a whole lot of stuff to franchise mode between M20 and M23. But it is worse because of it. Morale boosts are out of control on M23, coach skills boost player ratings, game planning boosts ratings, way too many scenarios (which the CPU does not get). What this results-in is a signficant boost to ratings in-game and the user gains huge benefits. As a result, you go from great competive games in the first few weeks of a franchise to blowing away the CPU afterwards. Unless you play M23 on All Madden or using extreme slider settings (neither is appealing to me), CFM in 23 is a waste of time.

Thoughts on franchise longevity
- One thing M23 features that I like is the player tag system for FA. What I suggest for M20 is that you restrict yourself with respect to in-season contract extensions (how you do it is your choice). The more of your players that go into FA, the more you will have to pay, and the harder it will be to maintain a team. Not a perfect solution, but given how infrequent in-season extensions are in real life, this is a good option. You might also consider not making any trades during the draft (as the CPU does not do them).

- Do not use the 5th year player option scenario. The CPU does not get this; so a user should not get the boost.

- Purely optional, but each off-season, I like to adjust the CPU QBs "sense pressure" trait based on their awareness rating. Makes no sense to me to see a QB start as paranoid and then get to a 90 awareness but still have the paranoid trait. The rough scale I use is:
85+: Ideal
80-84: Average
70-79: Trigger Happy
<70: Paranoid

- Final thing. Up to you how you implement this in your CFM, but you might want to consider lowering dev traits for older players on the decline.

Wrap-up

I'm having fun with Madden again...I hope some of you give this a shot and enjoy it as well.


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Last edited by JoshC1977; 02-21-2023 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:19 PM   #2
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Thread rules/notes
  • I'm not your customer service. I'll help offer advice as I can, but I am not here to 'fix' the game for you. I build a set per the central tenants of the OP and share it with the community. Nothing more, nothing less. I will NOT make suggestions to tailor the game in a manner that introduces Slider RNG. If you want to, that's your business....it's your game to break.
  • Please do NOT post your own sliders in this thread. If you have your own custom setup, please post your own thread. You might be surprised, but I constantly read other threads to see what other people are doing. If you post it, I will see it.
  • Numbers of penalties and subs are two things which trip people up. I WILL NOT adjust values STRICTLY for penalty calls or subs unless I deem that there is ZERO gameplay impact.
  • I do not test anything in "coach mode". While my approach generally works for it, I can't vouch for it.
  • I will not entertain any discussion of CPU v CPU mode in this thread. CPU vs CPU has traditionally played very differently than other modes (including "coach mode"). Please refrain from any discussion of "findings" derived from CPU v CPU play in this thread.
  • Broad statements like "It's too easy" or "It's too hard" or "the run game is too easy/hard" will be ignored unless you provide further support. Provide full descriptions (or video) of WHY something is "too easy/hard". Broad generalizations based on tiny sample sizes (i.e. less than 48 full games in regular season CFM) will be ignored unless you have specific reaction/animation-based arguments to support the "why". If you have video of full games available, please refer to specific time-frames where you see things that look "off".
  • I will not make adjustments based on stats alone. I will not respond to queries based on stats alone. Video is nice, but even text descriptions of what you are seeing is helpful (oftentimes, one small detail may resonate as something I have seen myself...having secondary confirmation often helps me realize that something may be wrong). If you just post numbers, it is meaningless.
  • You're welcome to post box scores of games, but know that I usually ignore them (now, if you take the time to write specific details about how the game went and what you saw, I will totally read that). Box scores alone really don't tell me a whole lot. Stats lie all the time.
  • Take ownership of your gameplay style. If you like to go overboard and maybe exploit the CPU a bit, own it. If you're not 100% "sim", there is nothing wrong with that; but my approach may not work for you on All Pro.

Having high quality feedback makes our efforts here much better. I greatly appreciate everyone's cooperation

How I Play Franchise Mode

I get lots of questions about various facets of franchise mode and "how I play it". So, I thought I'd put this all together. This is not to say you HAVE to play like me or making other choices is "wrong" - but I wanted to try to consolidate things a bit.

The "proper" mindset for franchise and choosing a team.

Remember, Madden is a role-playing game. Unlike many RPGs, YOU are the one driving the narrative. So, try to have a vision in mind...something that excites you or intrigues you. Remember, the people that complain the most about franchise are the ones that try too hard to mimic real life. Once you hit that 'start button', it is now your own universe...embrace it and be creative.

Don't be afraid to try something new that is outside of your wheelhouse. If you always run the same scheme, same playbook no matter who you use - it's always going to feel the same. If you're a vertical guy like me, try a franchise with the Air Raid (I am doing that now....and it's different for sure....but a lot of fun). If you ALWAYS run a 34, run a team with a Tampa 2 in a chise. It will offer a whole new challenge as you learn and add a ton of replayability to the mode.

Setting up the Franchise

Online CFM or Offline CFM
If you're doing a solo CFM, offline; every day and twice on Sundays. You have way more control over your world offline and online offers no benefit for soloers. Plus, you don't have to worry about the servers going offline

Rosters
I strongly advise using the default pre-season roster that ships with the game (worst-case, make sure you save the final preseason roster so you get more up-to-date rosters without the in-season boosts). This is doubly important later in the year because they will boost younger players and if you start a new season from week 1 with those younger guys already boosted, then in-franchise progression will boost it even more (so you'll wind-up with a league-wide roster that is top-heavy in young players...which can skew league balance and cap situations for 10+ years.

Single-team vs Multi-team Control
I'm a single-team control guy. My enjoyment in franchise comes from watching my team's story unfold in a fictional universe I created and I am far less concerned about micro-managing the CPU to make things "more realistic". I'll help them along if maybe their depth charts are a bit shallow or if I want to engineer a storyline, but not much more than that.

Coach vs Owner
I recommend using a Coach. The scenario engine is much more fleshed-out for coaches and it will add more depth and immersion to your CFM. That said....the scenario engine is skewed in favor of the user...so an interesting argument could be made to bypass some of those scenarios by going with Owner Mode to keep things on a bit more even footing.

Now, if using a coach, my decision to keep firing on for user coaches is dependant on the storyline. If I am just following one team, I may turn them off. If I am following a coach, I may turn them on and see what happens with a new team.

Draft Classes
I'm a huge proponent of using the game's generated draft classes. You have no pre-conceptions of players and who/what they "should" be. So, you are going to dive more into them from a scouting and evaluation standpoint. That's going to massively boost your immersion in your franchise.

XP Sliders
I'm a default progression guy.

Superstar Abilities
One of the most common questions on OS. Should I turn these on or off? You'll get better diversity and more challenge from the CPU by leaving them on. Challenge yourself and enjoy it! Remember, losing is part of winning!


In-mode tidbits

This is a haphazardly organized section. Just a few things I like to do in the mode to keep things going smoothly.
  • I spend a lot of time evaluating my team, the scheme fits, player ratings (well beyond their OVRs), and how to best maximize their talents. Don't be afraid to change things up from the very beginning - especially on defense. I try to have a plan in mind up front....though for weaker teams, you may just have to adjust on the fly.
  • If you've done a couple of CFMs with the default roster, they can begin to get a bit "samey". Spice it up. Edit the SS and X-factors for guys on every team. Nick Foles as a 77 OVR X-factor with the 'Omaha' trait? Sure! Lowering Brady to a SS? I can see it. Want to get rid of Luck and AB this time around? Edit their ratings, positions, and contracts so their teams cut them in preseason. You want to make the Tunsil and Clowney deals? Do it. Take an hour or two to create your own little world and save a 'base' file you can use again. Have fun with it.
  • I WILL adjust some QB ratings to make their primary archetype 'Scrambler'. Lowering DAC and raising MAC and/or SAC can take care of this for many borderline guys. I do this at the start of the franchise and let things go from there.
  • I HATE the training drills...I just sim them.
  • Check your opponent's roster prior to each game. Make sure they have at least 2 healthy RBs. If not, take control of their coach (offline CFM for the win), pull a RB off their PS or a FA, and then retire the coach. With CPU teams usually only rostering 3 RBs, this can be a necessary 2 minute fix. If you need to cut a player to accommodate the move, you can nearly always find that the CPU has an "extra" guy (like a 5th tackle or OLB) that is easy to cut. If signing a FA, I tend to lean towards stories (I did this when the NYG needed a RB - I signed former Giant Orleans Darkwa..teams often go 'back to the well' for street FAs...so it made sense.
  • Trading...I don't restrict myself here per se. But I do two things. I look at the trade from the other team's angle; does the trade really make sense for them? Second, I don't "walk up" my offer a dozen times until they accept. I make what I think is a fair offer and sometimes, I may overspend....that's OK. If I can't come to terms within 3 or 4 attempts, I move on. Whenever possible, I place my guys on the block and then accept the "best offer" or at least use that as a springboard for negotiation.
  • Re-signing FAs. If there are guys I know I really want to re-sign, I make an offer during the season. They will cost more...but it will be in-line with the CPU expenditures. Waiting to re-sign everyone to just before the off-season where they often accept cheaper deals is a pretty easy way of cheesing the game....I don't do it.
  • 5th year extensions. After their 3rd season, players can be offered a 5th yr extension to their rookie contract. They will be paid the average of the top 10 players (salary-wise) at that position. This is a scenario in the 3rd(?) Free Agency week. Because it is a scenario, the CPU won't get the chance to do this. My advice, take 30 mins, temporarily take control of each team's HC (offline CFM for the win) and go through the scenario (if they have one) and make the decision for them. I did this in my current franchise and it should greatly help keep the CPU competitive.
  • Don't be afraid to engineer some deals for storylines. In my Miami franchise, the Eagles had drafted a solid X-factor QB but still had Wentz. They were up against the cap and Wentz had struggled. So, I set up a deal to trade Wentz back close to home to the Vikings (who had no QB). It added a fun little spin on things.
  • Signing FAs. I have a rough rule. I make one offer to a FA. None of this "walk up the offer until you're at the top of the list" BS. If the guy makes it to the next week, you are free to adjust the offer another time. I like this because I have to decide how much a guy is worth to me. I may massively overspend or get severely out-bid.
  • Position changes. I stick close to the vest with these. I'll move around o-linemen and edge rushers. If switching base fronts, I will sometimes move LBs around. Once in a while, I will move a veteran CB (who has slowed a step or two) to FS if he has the skillset (few do). The one thing I haven't done much of is doing this for the CPU...honestly, with the rush DE and DT sub positions, a lot of the need to do this for them has evaporated.
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Last edited by JoshC1977; 12-30-2019 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:58 AM   #3
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Absolutely loved your Show sliders, and your overall approach. Really excited for what you come up with.

I notice you're saying these are User vs CPU only. I'm doing a CFM with 7 users and 25 CPU. Is there any reason these wouldn't be a good fit for user games? Or is it that you're just testing these against the CPU, and putting that as a disclaimer?
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:11 AM   #4
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknut7
Absolutely loved your Show sliders, and your overall approach. Really excited for what you come up with.

I notice you're saying these are User vs CPU only. I'm doing a CFM with 7 users and 25 CPU. Is there any reason these wouldn't be a good fit for user games? Or is it that you're just testing these against the CPU, and putting that as a disclaimer?
Honestly, I've never played a H2H game of Madden - ever. In the past, I know a few guys that have said that my approach to sliders has worked well in User v User games. I just can't vouch for it personally.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:33 AM   #5
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Can you share your thoughts behind the penalty slider bump to 51? I know these are still being workshopped, just trying to understand your methods on Madden.

Absolutely giddy to get my full copy tonight. Based on my access trial, I see no reason NOT to start my Lions franchise. Too many years I delay waiting on perfect settings. Not this year, game has shown me enough at default. I think your adjustments will only enhance what I’ve seen.

I’m a HUGE fan of X factor/ superstar traits this year. Elite player impact is immediately evident. Love that wrinkle and really feels like all play styles can be successful with the right roster construction this year.
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:32 AM   #6
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

I wanted to break down a few more things from my EA Access experience (2 trials so 20 hours) here before launch. This is random and in no particular order.

General Note on Sliders
I'm very much adapting an approach of keeping all sliders between 48-52 for All Pro. That SEEMS to me to be a safe range where you can mess around with tendencies without getting 'Slider RNG'.

Now, I am currently NOT using any gameplay slider adjustments. I have tested a couple of things out...but...we need sample size. I'm not adverse to making changes, but the changes need to make sense and be justified.

Coverage
There were coverage issues in-game during EA Access. I don't know if we'll get a Day 1 patch or not and even if we do, if it will address them. There were three primary components:
1. The amount of distance between the DB and receiver. At pure default, you could watch a DB following a WR on a crossing route, but the DB would be 3 yards downfield following him. Modifying the injury slider to 50 in MM and 50 in CFM cleaned this up. (Note: on All Madden, players tend to play 'tighter' to start - so this setting may not work as well)
2. CPU defenders would constantly LOOK for the ball (and not necessarily react) at the expense of covering the receiver (leaving some nasty gaps in coverage). This took me forever to figure out but turning Ball Hawk back "on" really helped us out here. It's very clear the game was tuned to have this on (and it IS "on" by default). This functionality is definitely different than past years.
3. There are some odd animations with how DBs turn their hips or react on change-of-direction patterns. Now, EA stated that they tuned DB movements post-Beta to try to get Post patterns to be less effective, but I don't think the tuning worked out as well as it should have. There isn't much I can do here and I am not going to try. The other 2 tweaks will help mitigate this from being a major nuisance.

Threshold
I spent a TON of time on this. There are a lot of big plays by default. It is very tough to catch guys from behind. In this case, THAT IS NOT A THRESHOLD ISSUE! The issue there is related to fatigue...I'll touch on that later.

I set threshold to 52 for a couple of reasons. One, it smooths out some animations. Two, I think it syncs-up the run game a bit better. It will help A LITTLE in closing the gap, but not as much as people think.

Fatigue
This was a late addition to the setup. As mentioned above, breakways were virtually unstoppable. The reason, watch the stamina drain on a defender on a long return....it doesn't go down fast enough.

Now, 52 fatigue helps that without rocking the rest of the gameplay. In fact, the gameplay is just a bit sloppier...which I love.

Penalties
In previous years, penalty sliders at 50 'gated' the number of calls and going to 51 would essentially remove that restriction. But in past years, going to 51 wound up causing a ton of issues with warping/suction and just generally imbalancing the game. Well last night, I was down to 30 minutes of EA Access and thought, "What the heck?". I plugged-in 51 for all the penalties and got into a game. About a quarter's worth of play, 3 DPIs, 1 IBB, 1 Hold later...I was like, "Oh man...we HAVE to explore this!". I think the subtle tweak to fatigue along with the 51 values may have got things to stand out. It also could have been dumb luck. But any chance of getting lots of penalty calls without causing major gameplay disruptions is well worth it.

(note: 51 RTP will introduce some odd calls that don't seem to be justified by the animation (e.g. QB is barely grazed)...I know this but for now, I really want to leave them all at 51 to see if there is a 'balancing act' here)

Fumbles
(insert sound of spoiled toddler crying)...."WAAAAAA too many fumbles!!! WAAAA!!! "

Suck it up kids. Use the protect ball button, don't make jukes in heavy traffic, get out of bounds, use the coach adjustment (especially in rainy weather). If you are reckless handling the ball, that's on you.

X-factors
You HAVE to gameplan for these guys and I LOVE IT! They can and will shred you. Be cognizant of where they are and what they can do. Related note: understand your opponent's personnel (even non-superstars) and where their sore spots are.

Franchise mode in-general
I basically spent 20 hours testing gameplay in CFM. I did not dabble much in the mode at all. The scenario engine stuff seems OK and I am hoping that we get far more interesting scenarios throughout the year.
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:44 PM   #7
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Do you have to change this and re-do every time you start a CFM? So it won’t work in a existing one?
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:45 PM   #8
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Re: JoshC1977's Madden 20 CFM-only Sliders (User vs CPU Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCBasketball
Do you have to change this and re-do every time you start a CFM? So it won’t work in a existing one?


No, you can apply it to an existing franchise.


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