Stamina management!

[bcelts]

After 4 iterations of this game stamina management is still a problem and arcadey. I bet after esportsboxingclub drops you guys will have a mode online that is more realistic or fix this in the next game you make. The old gameplay developer Jeff would have tried to fix this problem even more. Really miss that guy because he did a great job and interacted with all of us no matter what.

[Ka5eL]

Quote: Originally Posted by bcelts

After 4 iterations of this game stamina management is still a problem and arcadey. I bet after esportsboxingclub drops you guys will have a mode online that is more realistic or fix this in the next game you make. The old gameplay developer Jeff would have tried to fix this problem even more. Really miss that guy because he did a great job and interacted with all of us no matter what.

Geoff* yeah he was great. Without him the entire dev team fell apart. Brian Hayes has always been the root of the problem though, he's been the "creative" director for all the EA UFC games

[Good Grappler]

I’ve come to the conclusion that in order for an MMA game’s stamina system to have a “realistic” impact on the gameplay, the stamina and damage system would both need to be tuned dramatically.

In other words, the stamina cost for attacks (particularly combos) would almost need to be unrealistically drastic, in order to have a realistic impact on gameplay. And I think this reality is confusing to developers, gamechangers, and the playerbase as a whole... because it seems counterintuitive to create a stamina system where fighters gas out from throwing a few combos. But we need to accept that it isn’t about the goal, or immediate effect of a mechanic - but rather, the incentives said mechanic creates. Then those incentives need to be evaluated in regards to how they impact gameplay.

So, while the proposition of making combos and consecutive offensive attacks cost 300% more stamina is unrealistic, the impact it would have on gameplay would be very realistic, due to the incentives created.

Think about it. If consecutive attacks (think combos) cost 300% more stamina, they will be used less, because otherwise players will run out of stamina quickly and be at a disadvantage. However, because combinations are still extremely effective, players will still look for opportunities to use them. They just have to put more thought into when to use them, because they cost more stamina.

Likewise, increasing damage serves the same purpose. If all strikes delivered 300% more damage, players will leave less openings due to the risk of getting hit. Even if a 300% damage increase itself seems unrealistic - the incentives it creates actually give rise to more realistic gameplay.

So to sum it up, I think the only way to see a game where players are respecting each other’s power and being measured with their attacks (to an extent where it visually looks like real MMA), damage and stamina need to be drastically tuned. See UD3 Sim Mode.

[iHazCode]

The key is realism. If you buff stamina and add 1 punch knockout power it would turn this game into chess like UD3 and the actual sport

[TurkeyOfJive]

UD3 had some excellent gameplay elements but striking was not one of them - at what point ever has UD3 striking been "a chess match"? The striking was poor, artificial and (I imagine) based on very few physics calculations in comparison to the solid striking engine built in UFC3/4.


I'm all for more realism in UFC4 including tweaking stamina and making strikes do more damage but I'm really not sure how UD3 was good in these areas.

[AggelosP]

I would say there went for a more arcadey game this time. Would make sense since they went for more cosmetics and stuff like that so that they bring in new people to the game. Also the stamina in UFC 3 was perfect, no one really complained about it.

[Reinfarcements]

The effects of short-term stamina on damage right now make exchanges feel really off. I agree that strikes in general should exhaust more long-term stamina, even if they hit the block, than they do now. However, short-term stamina needs to be much higher than it is now.

Those two things would create more meaningful exchanges. You'd have the ability to throw big combos when you think it would benefit you, but it will affect your long-term stamina much more. Also with the added benefit of not getting KOed by one uppercut after you land 3 clean strikes because your opponent wasn't using any stamina while he ate those 3 strikes and you were.

Damage as a whole needs to be increased, but the insane damage modifiers that occur with short-term stamina and vulnerability (especially when they even slightly combine) reward randomness while cleaner strikers don't get rewarded enough for landing normal clean strikes that don't make it into one of the games damage modifiers. That damage gap should be much smaller if you ask me. But again, overall I think strikes should do more damage, also the effectiveness of block needs to be lowered A LOT.

Its weird, on paper UFC 3 and 4 seem to have great striking systems, but sometimes things feel very very off in there.

[AggelosP]

I don't know how effective that would be. Pressure fighting is the best strategy you can use in this game. Imagine what would happen if the striking system didn't actually punish those with low temp stamina.