A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

[gbmbjj]

I can't help but keep thinking (as I'm sure it's been discussed already) that this game will never really hit that "pro wrestling" feeling that I think we all want until they bring back "working holds" in a meaningful way.

Sooooo many times, when I'm playing, or simming, I yearn for a slow-down in the match, and just want to see an arm wrench, or a headlock, or any sort of hold being worked methodically.

They WERE on the right track a while back but removed them. :/

Also, and this is minor, but I still think it will create a more realistic look and feel, and that's getting rid of the "fighting stance" that occurs when you near someone, as well as having a more dynamic and less clunky way to drag people around and outside the ring.

Just some random thoughts...

[Hyperballer21]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

They have to revamped the concept of a wrestling game. It's not a fighting game. Wins and losses shouldn't determine success, but rather your performance; Are you spamming moves/taunts vs using the right move in the right situation? Are you fighting according to your wrestlers style?

People get promoted all the time after losing a match. That should be replicated. Not sure how they would do it, but whoever does it first will change the game for the better.

[gbmbjj]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

They have to revamped the concept of a wrestling game. It's not a fighting game. Wins and losses shouldn't determine success, but rather your performance; Are you spamming moves/taunts vs using the right move in the right situation? Are you fighting according to your wrestlers style?

People get promoted all the time after losing a match. That should be replicated. Not sure how they would do it, but whoever does it first will change the game for the better.

Something else I'd like to see in the next installment is having opponents NOT fall down after so many stirkes and move...especially big guys.

Dropping to a knee, or turning and shaking their head, or staggering, all those animations add sooooo much realism to the game.

It's lame to have a guy fly to his back after a headbutt 30 seconds into a match.

[voodoo_magic]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

I think one of the keys to make WWE2K more like a wrestling sim and less a fighting game would be if we could have predetermined winners of a match before playing.

Settings so that the cpu doesn't kick out of your finisher for example. You could work them over knowing they can't do some weird combo of moves and pin you.
Jobbers would be true jobbers.
The ability to basically set up your universe to have your Wrestlemania matches perfectly set up months ahead or even just the next PLE manipulating the rivalry system how you want would be a lot of fun.
Of course it needs to be optional for the people that love the fighting game style it is right now.

To tie into this having lingering injuries from previous matches, or wear and tear, or something that goes with why you would work on a certain body part like how they do in real life would go well with the predetermined outcome.

Another thing that would be great is to do with the heel/babyface mechanic.
Taunting is in the game but instead of a random taunt, you work the crowd with a meter to fill.
The heel beats up the face outside the ring, taunts towards the crowd etc, the face starts making a comeback does their fire up the crowd taunt etc. Of course you can't spam taunts because if you taunt again too soon your meter loses a certain amount.
After filling up your meter, maybe it adds a special/finisher or something else, but it's mainly another way to fill those meters instead of just punches and kicks.

[gbmbjj]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

I think one of the keys to make WWE2K more like a wrestling sim and less a fighting game would be if we could have predetermined winners of a match before playing.

Settings so that the cpu doesn't kick out of your finisher for example. You could work them over knowing they can't do some weird combo of moves and pin you.
Jobbers would be true jobbers.
The ability to basically set up your universe to have your Wrestlemania matches perfectly set up months ahead or even just the next PLE manipulating the rivalry system how you want would be a lot of fun.
Of course it needs to be optional for the people that love the fighting game style it is right now.

To tie into this having lingering injuries from previous matches, or wear and tear, or something that goes with why you would work on a certain body part like how they do in real life would go well with the predetermined outcome.

Another thing that would be great is to do with the heel/babyface mechanic.
Taunting is in the game but instead of a random taunt, you work the crowd with a meter to fill.
The heel beats up the face outside the ring, taunts towards the crowd etc, the face starts making a comeback does their fire up the crowd taunt etc. Of course you can't spam taunts because if you taunt again too soon your meter loses a certain amount.
After filling up your meter, maybe it adds a special/finisher or something else, but it's mainly another way to fill those meters instead of just punches and kicks.

It's a start.

Truthfully, ANYTHING that could be added/removed to play more like a pro wrestling game rather than a fighting game would be great.

Heck, adding back the mini game of chain wrestling with real match consequences would even be a fantastic start in my opinion.

[DC]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

Move
Move
Move
Move
Move

I agree with you, there is a lack of WORKING a match with this series. Not sure why they completely took away the early match Chain wrestling aspect but little things like that go a long way. They could just added an option to turn it on off and kept it in there. Hell I think there WAS an option there to turn it off.

[voodoo_magic]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

I hope one of the many games that are being worked on help open things up for 2K to add "wrestling" to the wrestling game.

[cybergates]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

I always found it ironic that wrestling games (being made like fighting games) was the only place that the wrestlers were doing things to hurt each other instead of telling a story (like real life pro wrestling).

I've said many times after seeing a move executed in a wrestling game, that the wrestler on the receiving end would be paralyzed/dead if that was real.

[SmashMan]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

If nothing else, 2K15-2K20 showed me that I like the idea of a "sim" wrestling game more than I actually liked playing one. Unless they massively change the AI to work matches with you, I don't see the point. I'm not even sure that would be fun to play either, but that would at least be them having a clear vision.

I'm good with them keeping the fighting game style as the base but adding in some of the older aspects to find a kind of middle ground though. Improving the AI would be my top priority but I think they want to emphasize head-to-head play and obviously AI wouldn't be important enough to focus on in that case.

[gbmbjj]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

If nothing else, 2K15-2K20 showed me that I like the idea of a "sim" wrestling game more than I actually liked playing one. Unless they massively change the AI to work matches with you, I don't see the point. I'm not even sure that would be fun to play either, but that would at least be them having a clear vision.

I'm good with them keeping the fighting game style as the base but adding in some of the older aspects to find a kind of middle ground though. Improving the AI would be my top priority but I think they want to emphasize head-to-head play and obviously AI wouldn't be important enough to focus on in that case.

Ugh, baffles my mind how so many little things, which are really BIG things still exist in this game when it comes to AI.

The one that really REALLY baffles me, and I've seen it many times, including last night when simming; is this:

Long and amazing back and forth match, 20 mins in .....kick outs left and right, etc etc...

The following sequence plays out (and I've seen this WAY more than once)

- Irish whip ---> drop down --> leapfrog --> hip toss --> 1, 2, 3 PIN!

W
T
F
??!?!?!?!?

[DC]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

Yea I would think it would be simply programming to not allow certain moves to end a match.

Hell, the N64 AKI games had that running under the hood. I will find the thread from "Melonbread" but there is no excuse for pattycake finishes like that.

[gbmbjj]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

Yea I would think it would be simply programming to not allow certain moves to end a match.

Hell, the N64 AKI games had that running under the hood. I will find the thread from "Melonbread" but there is no excuse for pattycake finishes like that.

Yep!

Also, it's a minor thing too, but is it?
The commentary with tagteam matches really needs some TLC.

The fact that they are more or less calling it like a singles match throughout the entire match just shows how little they care about the immersive experience overall.

Lastly, I think they need some new and creative ways to end matches; especially if the CPU is a super heel of sorts.

More DQs, illegal holds not being broke, count outs, (purposely, not because the CPU didn't return in time) ...things like that.

I've been playing more than ever lately and I just think that extra wrinkle to the overall game would really pay dividends.

[Fiddy]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

Just give me a toggle on or off, can't finish a match unless a finisher or special has landed and stunned the opponent. That isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing and would for sure keep me invested in the game/matches longer.

[gbmbjj]

Re: A comment/discussion about this game going forward...

Just give me a toggle on or off, can't finish a match unless a finisher or special has landed and stunned the opponent. That isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing and would for sure keep me invested in the game/matches longer.

Hey Hey, not sure if this is what you are referring to, in regards to finishing Tag matches, but I JUST learned this a few days ago, and I've been playing the game since day 1.

When you are in the ring, you can hold L1 and then press any of the 4 directions on the Dpad to trigger your partner to do certain actions.

right - go attack the tag partner on the apron
left - go get a weapon and throw in the ring
up - remove turnbuckle

I found that if you time it, you can send your partner to attack the other partner while you hit your finisher, and there will be no one to come break it up.

Pretty sweet.