News Post

MLB '09: The Show Preview with Screenshots (ESPN Videogames)

11:24 AM - December 19, 2008 by iamemmittsmith

ESPN Videogames have posted their exclusive first look at MLB '09: The Show, including some new screenshots.

Quote:


	"Think A-Rod chokes in the clutch? Ever shout "Dodgers suck!" or yell "Drewwwwwww" when J.D. walks up to the plate? MLB 09 is about to bring out the crazed fan in all of us as not only can you record your voice screaming anything from "Where's Madonna?" to "we want a pitcher not a belly itcher" and put it in the game thanks to peripherals like the Rock Band mic and wireless headset, the fan yells will sound like your voice actually coming from the stands. You can even assign the recordings to be part of a chant and your voice will be put through a new process so that it sounds more like a crowd chanting "over-rated" and not just a single person yelling."

Game: MLB '09: The ShowReader Score: 9/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS2 / PS3 / PSPVotes for game: 90 - View All

MLB '09: The Show Videos

Member Comments

# 101 SoxChamp @ 12/19/08 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell_SCEA


	You are correct about the player models it's a time issue. It's not a plug in play type of deal if the player models change that means that every single animation in the game has to be re-mapped to the new models. Can't comment one way or another on collision detection.

It must just be me, because I've never felt that the player models were all that bad. Rather than stare at screenshots, if you watch the game in motion, I think they look pretty darn close to real major leaguers. No, not perfect, but what is? I know this isn't a place to bash the other game, but watching 2K's players move and react makes me laugh. It's cartoony and just plain terrible, in my opinion. To each his own I guess. Not having new player models this year isn't the end of the world, nor will it distract me from playing an absolutely wonderful game of baseball.

# 102 The Management @ 12/19/08 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countryboy


	I can't imagine having to re-map every single animation. And for my opinion alone, I would prefer the player models be held off another year in favor of the few things that we know have been included this year(progressive lighting, updated franchise, crowd chants, etc..)

A majority of the mo-cap is done from the body joints I would imagine (just guessing). A simple algorythm would remap them no? Again, using Home as an example.. I can stretch the body type any which way and all the gestures work the same. I think it's more a marketing choice rather than an implementation choice.

# 103 The Management @ 12/19/08 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxChamp


	It must just be me, because I've never felt that the player models were all that bad. Rather than stare at screenshots, if you watch the game in motion, I think they look pretty darn close to real major leaguers. No, not perfect, but what is? I know this isn't a place to bash the other game, but watching 2K's players move and react makes me laugh. It's cartoony and just plain terrible, in my opinion. To each his own I guess. Not having new player models this year isn't the end of the world, nor will it distract me from playing an absolutely wonderful game of baseball.

When I say player models, I'm not talking about changing everything all around, I like the way the models look more than other games. But for the limbs and torso to not be proportionate is a huge negative. I seriously can't think of one game with (unintentionally) disproportionate limbs in the last 10 years. It would have been my number one priority, the game is already awesome.

# 104 duke776 @ 12/19/08 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Management


	If I can change my home character from short and stocky to tall and lanky in a matter of seconds (I'm using Home as a reference because it looks like they use a similar face builder), something doesn't seem right.

That is nothing even remotely close to what they have to do, that stuff is already programmed on there for you. SCEA has to re-work all the animations if they put in new player models. They can't just click a button and magically have the animations work perfectly with the new player models.

# 105 The Management @ 12/19/08 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke776


	That is nothing even remotely close to what they have to do, that stuff is already programmed on there for you. SCEA has to re-work all the animations if they put in new player models. They can't just click a button and magically have the animations work perfectly with the new player models.

They do it with players of different sizes in the game correct? What's the difference? The tall players have proportionate torso's but still have small arms. The shorter players have it all wrong. One hurdle I can think of would be maybe the original implementation of the hand/glove/arm is separately coordinate based, making it a more daunting task.

But with the motion capture on the face being so malleable, I don't see how making the arms a couple inches longer and the shoulders closer to the body would be so difficult (or not a priority). Guess that's why I don't get paid the big bucks though.

# 106 ARMORALLL @ 12/19/08 07:14 PM

Wow I like what I've seen so far and I might as well remind people that there is still alot we dont know about the game so its useless to draw early conclusions about what will and wont be in the final version. Heres hoping for rainouts!

# 107 The Management @ 12/19/08 07:17 PM

And I'm speaking from a coding background (not in gaming though I have coded some simple games). Not in a "man why can't they do this I want it wah wah"

I'm trying to understand what the complication was. I don't think there was a complication, just a marketing decision. Fix the player models or do something else. Something else won out. That's fine by me. I'm not even to concerned with the features because I already like the game just as it is. I really don't understand how a next generation sports sim can have small arms. My computer golf game from 1995 was proportionate!

# 108 countryboy @ 12/19/08 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Management


	What "complications"? Getting the right body proportions should be priority number 1. It's really the only game out with this problem. If I can change my home character from short and stocky to tall and lanky in a matter of seconds (I'm using Home as a reference because it looks like they use a similar face builder), something doesn't seem right.

because they have to re-map every single animation when re-doing the player models. Its not as simple as what you're thinking it should be.

And I disagree, the player models aren't at the top of my priority list, not when they aren't that bad to begin with. As I said, yes, I'd like to see them be redone, but I'd much rather have the improvements to the other aspects of the game that we've gotten this year vs updated player models.

# 109 PhantomPain @ 12/19/08 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Management


	A majority of the mo-cap is done from the body joints I would imagine (just guessing). A simple algorythm would remap them no? Again, using Home as an example.. I can stretch the body type any which way and all the gestures work the same. I think it's more a marketing choice rather than an implementation choice.

That is one of the more silly things I have read lately. Do you honestly believe that SCEA, knowing that the player models are not where they want to be, decided it would be better for marketing by not doing them? They have acknowledged they need fixing, have addressed the issue of why they didn't get to it this year on a couple of occasions, yet you think they are lying and purposely holding back?

Just because you have the ability to do these things in Home, I am sure it means nothing to the game. Of course you can choose to believe that it is a big conspiracy from SCEA that they just don't want to do it for some strange marketing purposes, but that would probably be doing them and the game a huge disservice. Especially since they are one of the most community involved developers around and actually listen to what the OS community offers for suggestions.

# 110 countryboy @ 12/19/08 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Management


	And I'm speaking from a coding background (not in gaming though I have coded some simple games). Not in a "man why can't they do this I want it wah wah" I'm trying to understand what the complication was. I don't think there was a complication, just a marketing decision. Fix the player models or do something else. Something else won out. That's fine by me.

lol

then why are we going round in circles over the player models..

# 111 Woodweaver @ 12/19/08 07:24 PM

Geez, the player model issue has been explained so many times. Do we really need to rehash it again? You just read the reasoning at SCEA straight from the horse mouth (thanks Russell). If you don't know anything about the technology, what is the point of idle speculation and second guessing the professionals.

Doctors do heart transplants. Why can't they just do brain transplants? When the brain surgeon I asked explained why it couldn't be done with current medical technology, I got bored with all his technical mumbo-jumbo and told him he was wrong because I thought it should be easy.

# 112 The Management @ 12/19/08 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhantomPain


	That is one of the more silly things I have read lately. Do you honestly believe that SCEA, knowing that the player models are not where they want to be, decided it would be better for marketing by not doing them? They have acknowledged they need fixing, have addressed the issue of why they didn't get to it this year on a couple of occasions, yet you think they are lying and purposely holding back? Just because you have the ability to do these things in Home, I am sure it means nothing to the game. Of course you can choose to believe that it is a big conspiracy from SCEA that they just don't want to do it for some strange marketing purposes, but that would probably be doing them and the game a huge disservice. Especially since they are one of the most community involved developers around and actually listen to what the OS community offers for suggestions.

No not that they don't want to fix them, that they would rather fix something or add something else first, time permitting. All developers want to make the game as perfect as possible every year. I wanted to know what the complication was that they ran into.

It's funny I have a computer science degree and I'm going for my MBA in Marketing, these are two things I can speak on at least somewhat knowledgeably. I'm also a nuts baseball fan and a Show freak. I bought a PS3 for The Show and 80% of my gaming is on the Show. It's really a question I wanted answered on multiple levels. It's the one thing that has me so puzzled since coming over from the 2k series last year

# 113 The Management @ 12/19/08 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodweaver


	Geez, the player model issue has been explained so many times. Do we really need to rehash it again? You just read the reasoning at SCEA straight from the horse mouth (thanks Russell). If you don't know anything about the technology, what is the point of idle speculation and second guessing the professionals. Doctors do heart transplants. Why can't they just do brain transplants? When the brain surgeon I asked explained why it couldn't be done with current medical technology, I got bored with all his technical mumbo-jumbo and told him he was wrong because I thought it should be easy.

I'd like to think I know quite a bit about technology and coding given my field sir, but thanks.

# 114 Woodweaver @ 12/19/08 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Management


	I'd like to think I know quite a bit about technology and coding given my field sir, but thanks.

I was referring to MoCap technology. I assumed you had little knowledge of it given this statement:

"A majority of the mo-cap is done from the body joints I would imagine (just guessing). A simple algorythm would remap them no? Again, using Home as an example.."

Given your field I assume you realize that Home and The Show most likely share no code or resources.

Have you coded an animation system for a video game using MoCap technology, sir?

If you have a CompSci degree and you don't believe the developers explanation, then go get a book on Animation Systems and MoCap and figure out the TRUE reason they're keeping the perfectly proportioned player models from you.

# 115 Chaos81 @ 12/19/08 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsu_gb23


	don't know of too many games played in the winter....

"Spring" training. Most of it happens during winter.

Hey, you didn't say regular season games.

# 116 The Management @ 12/19/08 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodweaver


	I was referring to MoCap technology. I assumed you had little knowledge of it given this statement: "A majority of the mo-cap is done from the body joints I would imagine (just guessing). A simple algorythm would remap them no? Again, using Home as an example.." Given your field I assume you realize that Home and The Show most likely share no code or resources. Have you coded an animation system for a video game using MoCap technology, sir? If you have a CompSci degree and you don't believe the developers explanation, then go get a book on Animation Systems and MoCap and figure out the TRUE reason they're keeping the perfectly proportioned player models from you.

Please cut it out. I said they had two choices. Spend the time on player models, or spend the time on other features. Not that I don't believe a developers explanation (which was given to me via PM). And I was using home as an example of real time animation adjustments. Home is probably using stock animations from some company anyway.

Asking for a deeper explanation than "complications" is not out of line. I'm sure the SCEA developers don't mind the dialog either (not that I asked them specifically, they've probably been asked a million times).

# 117 Chris_SCEA_Sports @ 12/19/08 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Management


	They do it with players of different sizes in the game correct? What's the difference? The tall players have proportionate torso's but still have small arms. The shorter players have it all wrong. One hurdle I can think of would be maybe the original implementation of the hand/glove/arm is separately coordinate based, making it a more daunting task. But with the motion capture on the face being so malleable, I don't see how making the arms a couple inches longer and the shoulders closer to the body would be so difficult (or not a priority). Guess that's why I don't get paid the big bucks though.

I guess I might as well jump in here.

If it was easy, we would do it. Thank you. Next question.

Seriously, first we have to make a distinction between Player Geometry and the skeletal system. The Player Geometry (ie, the model) in the PS3 game is entirely different than the PS2 model. From head to toe, not a single poly, not a single texture is the same.

What many of you are complaining about is the proportions of the skeleton....and this is simply not an easy thing to just change.

Look at it this way. Put your hands together in front of you like you are clapping. Hold them in front of you palm to palm and imagine 2 more inches of length added to your arms.... your hands don't match up anymore do they? Same thing with holding a bat, adjusting your helmet, punching your fist into your glove, reaching into your glove to get the ball, putting your hands on your hips, etc etc etc...you get the idea.

We currently have over 20,000 of these animations to convert. Like I said, if it were simple, we would push the "new skeleton" button and take the rest of the year off. Don't forget, it has taken us over 7 years to build up this catalog of animations.

And yes, I know people will chime in with, just use a simple IK system, problem solved....well, yes and no...might get us part of the way there, but an IK system doesn't know how Derek Jeter holds his elbow during his stance, etc....so it may get the hands on the bat, but in doing so, will mess with the integrity of the animation.

Please understand that we do take this seriously, and it IS something that we are looking at for the future.

Enjoy.

Chris

# 118 bcruise @ 12/19/08 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_SCEA_Sports


	If it was easy, we would do it. Thank you. Next question.

Well, why didn't you say so?

Problem solved!

Seriously, thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm also in the "this doesn't bother me all that much" camp, myself.

# 119 K_GUN @ 12/19/08 08:19 PM

next question?....here it goes...

have the pitcher animations been upgraded (can they be upgraded?) to show a little more....whip in the arm motion.

sometimes the pitchers look like they are throwing a whiffle ball.....no real whip-snap...if you will

thank you

PS...otw...game is looking great....player models inc.!

# 120 ARMORALLL @ 12/19/08 08:19 PM

Not all the player models are the same. I notice that a player like Matt Stairs is shorter with a rounder figure whereas Derek Jeter is tall and slender.

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