Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

04:54 PM - March 16, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

Check out the latest Madden NFL 10 blog. This one covers player momentum.

Quote:


	"Hey Madden fans, it's that time again...time for another weekly blog update! Last week, I shared some of the details around the successes and challenges we've had in trying to create simulation gameplay for Madden NFL 10. To be clear, 'simulation' gameplay isn't new - IMO it's what put EA SPORTS (and Madden) on the map in the early 90's after all. Well this week we wanted to touch on one of the biggest aspects in creating an NFL sim, and as you might expect, this is also usually most difficult to get to an area where it still 'feels right'. That aspect is Player Momentum. Creating momentum in a football game is typically handled in many different ways, so today I'm going to just touch on one key area (and leave other topics for future weeks)."

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Member Comments

# 61 NYyankz225 @ 03/16/09 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYG34


	Ian i have a quick Question will their be any crowd noise in the game. cause madden 09 crowd is dead. and i really hope u guy were able to fix that

What does this have to do with Player Momentum? You've asked this 3 times in this thread already.

# 62 monkeybutlerz @ 03/16/09 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	First, I want to thank you for the well articulated response. You put thought into your comment, and I respect that. Here's what my problem or delimma is... If Ian implements turning (not cutting), and the runner does not have the correct foot sequenced during the turn animation... it looks unnatural, and unreal. I just want them to get the correct foot during the turns. A man can't turn right and walk if his right foot is planted into the ground (watch the first ball carrier video, his very first right turn)....beyond that the news is awesome. My only other thing is can we please...please get a top speed sprinter run form. Again, head up, shoulders back, feet kicking out...full sprint. I'm not trying to be a jerk bro...I'll give it a rest man...

I honestly felt the same way when I watched the video. Something seemed a little off. It looks miles better than 09, mind you, but it could still use some tuning. Still a good addition, I couldn't stand the quick twitch nonsense turns from the previous editions.

I'm looking forward to the blog on momentum used in collisions.

# 63 Cryolemon @ 03/16/09 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	User and CPU share the same model.

Cool. Did anything ever come of the idea to limit the CPU to human reaction times?

# 64 c dizzy m baby @ 03/16/09 07:45 PM

Yo Ian have you ever been making one of these videos and ran too far off the grid, and gotten lost in the Green Abyss?

# 65 NYG34 @ 03/16/09 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYyankz225


	What does this have to do with Player Momentum? You've asked this 3 times in this thread already.

why beacuse it pissing me off as fan i have season tickets for the giants and they have 12th man. and the crowd plays a huge part in football games. if their not going to have crowd then why have the stadium?? in madden 10.

# 66 Cryolemon @ 03/16/09 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c dizzy m baby


	Yo Ian have you ever been making one of these videos and ran too far off the grid, and gotten lost in the Green Abyss?

Haha lol. Great question.

# 67 BrianFifaFan @ 03/16/09 07:52 PM

I'm with BeZo with having a Fifa-style gas/break setup with the triggers. I like having stuff tied to left stick waggles, but you should have to slow to a realistic speed to pull them off, based on ratings.

# 68 BezO @ 03/16/09 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	Regardless, to your point about not blending correctly based on having a certain foot forward - actually to my knowledge no game accurately does that. It is something that is given away for responsiveness. Meaning, if i have a juke animation that starts with my right foot on the ground, and I am running in a sprint, it will play that same animation whether my right foot just left the ground or whether my left foot is down - and blend appropriately. I actually talked with FIFA guys about this once...and they prototyped this - it just felt miserable to do something on your controller, and sit there and wait for a guy to complete a full phase of locomotion before he responds to that command.

If we want to cut 90 degrees, and the new turn rates make the ball carrier travel 4 yards before completing the turn, how is that any less frustrating than waiting for a foot to get back to the ground or for a couple of prep steps to slow you down for a cut?

Some backs can also cut off the inside foot. Maybe you all should have 2 cut animatioins. Barry Sanders used to cut off his inside foot a lot. LT does it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAKE4742


	Nah, I actually like having to decelerate first. Seems more realistic, and overall requires more skill, IMO. It's the right kind of player input needed (for a football game). Not everything should be automatic.

I could see decelerating for a cut & go, but I imagine it being very difficult to control the stick in that way for several changes of direction. Maybe I'd feel better about it if the sticks were a lot tighter/stiffer.

And by automatic, I mean prep steps similar to what we saw in the route running video.

# 69 jvaccaro @ 03/16/09 08:16 PM

Ian, what are the ratings of the player in your demo videos?

I'm particularly curious about speed, agility and acceleration.

Thanks in advance

# 70 r2danov @ 03/16/09 08:18 PM

does this mean players will move like slugs? Or will they move like they did on the PS2?

# 71 monkeybutlerz @ 03/16/09 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	If we want to cut 90 degrees, and the new turn rates make the ball carrier travel 4 yards before completing the turn, how is that any less frustrating than waiting for a foot to get back to the ground or for a couple of prep steps to slow you down for a cut? Some backs can also cut off the inside foot. Maybe you all should have 2 cut animatioins. Barry Sanders used to cut off his inside foot a lot. LT does it too. I could see decelerating for a cut & go, but I imagine it being very difficult to control the stick in that way for several changes of direction. Maybe I'd feel better about it if the sticks were a lot tighter/stiffer. And by automatic, I mean prep steps similar to what we saw in the route running video.

A violent cut can be done with the inside foot, but it doesn't look right in a normal turn, without any hip movement/rotation. You know what I mean?

# 72 K_GUN @ 03/16/09 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYG34


	why beacuse it pissing me off as fan i have season tickets for the giants and they have 12th man. and the crowd plays a huge part in football games. if their not going to have crowd then why have the stadium?? in madden 10.

side note

i agree 100%.....i actaully sent Ian (and phil) a PM about this very topic...no response....yet

a)....they are swamped with PM's
b)....the answer they have isn't ready to be revealed
c)....the answer they have isn't one we want to hear

# 73 ghost3000 @ 03/16/09 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	I want to work through this openly, so we all understnad what were getting, expecting, and what Ian is doing. This way the results will be what we all want. When I looked at the runner running in those videos, it didn't look, or seem to feel real or right. In my humble opinion, the runner was on the wrong foot at times. He would lean, step, turn on his pivot feet going the other way, and then the correct leg would move and the cooresponding foot would hit the ground. He runner never put his head up, shoulders back, and strided through his max speed with a sprinters form. Go back, watch the tape. This is good, but....nevermind...

I never post but I decided to because I actually tried to understand what you were saying. This is what I came up with.

As far as turning (which was the whole point of the video), if you are running in a straight line and decided to TURN right, then your right foot will be on the ground and your left foot will create the change of direction.

Now, if a player is running in a straight line and decided to cut right then your left foot would be on the ground and your right foot would create the change of direction.

This video was to demonstrate turning not cutting.

My 2 Cents.

Time to disappear again.

# 74 BezO @ 03/16/09 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeybutlerz


	A violent cut can be done with the inside foot, but it doesn't look right in a normal turn, without any hip movement/rotation. You know what I mean?

Ahhh. Agreed. I'm stuck on cuts/plants. When Ian said this blog was coming, I thought it would be my favorite of the "small" announcements. So far, I'm disappointed. Maybe if he showcased some plants, I'd feel better about it. I'm anxious to see someone string a couple of cuts together having to decelerate manually.

But I'd like to control a game with the miserable controls Ian described. I can't imagine it's so bad waiting for a foot to get back on the ground. It's a fraction of a second. It's less time than waiting for a hop step from an outfielder before a strong throw. I took another look at the vid and the footwork does look wierd.

# 75 GKEnialb @ 03/16/09 09:11 PM

So I'll ask it for this feature once again and hope that it eventually gets answered: are these features only for Xbox 360 and PS3? This is all great stuff, but I want to know whether I should be excited or depressed...

# 76 nightcreeper @ 03/16/09 09:14 PM

really didnt care too much about this update.... BORING

# 77 marshallfever @ 03/16/09 09:47 PM

This blog was pure win. Seeing Momentum being added to the game play like this is completely awesome. You really do see the momentum and the player's abilities to shift his weight.

# 78 TheWatcher @ 03/16/09 10:01 PM

Nice blog Ian. More momentum and weight has been needed the last two seasons so this is very much welcomed.

I am curious to know how the speed sliders work with this, and what speed the animations are playing on but I suppose that will be talked about later.

Now, I do have one little gripe and this may just be a matter of it being a prototype... but the ballcarriers fundamentals don't seem tight to me. Like the ball (there is no ball here but judging from where his arm is placed) is not being tucked away tighter to the body. 83evans made a nice post showing a more fundamentally sound carry here: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2039304425 (the 1st pic of the Peterson carry is not showing up for some reason... I'll post it later)

The other thing is the urgency of the run. The upper-body action needs a little more, well, action. A combination of tightness in the fundamentals combined with more action in the shoulders. One thing I wondered about a few months ago is whether or not the run animations are being done outdoors in an open space. It seems like the runners aren't able to run in an open space and get free enough, so it looks like they're restricting themselves as a result and the body movements seem restricted.

# 79 adembroski @ 03/16/09 10:17 PM

I think what a lot of people are doing here is trying to look at "turn radius" and apply that specific motion in-game.

You, as a ball carrier, are likely never going to turn 90 degrees and run toward the sidelines. The point is that you can no longer do it with absolutely no slowdown or a wider angle.

A good illustration as to when a player would curve run rather than "cut" is on a kick return when there's a seam. The player doesn't gathers his feet and plant to explode toward the opening, he curves toward it, doing everything he can to maintain full speed when he reaches it.

The 90 degree turn used by Ian to illustrate the change is for example only. I did specifically ask on Twitter if you could lay off the stick a bit and get a plant cut, and he said yes, that's how it works.

# 80 youALREADYknow @ 03/16/09 10:18 PM

Much better. I think people will be amazed at how much this cuts down on the INTs and makes pure speed less effective.

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