Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

04:54 PM - March 16, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

Check out the latest Madden NFL 10 blog. This one covers player momentum.

Quote:


	"Hey Madden fans, it's that time again...time for another weekly blog update! Last week, I shared some of the details around the successes and challenges we've had in trying to create simulation gameplay for Madden NFL 10. To be clear, 'simulation' gameplay isn't new - IMO it's what put EA SPORTS (and Madden) on the map in the early 90's after all. Well this week we wanted to touch on one of the biggest aspects in creating an NFL sim, and as you might expect, this is also usually most difficult to get to an area where it still 'feels right'. That aspect is Player Momentum. Creating momentum in a football game is typically handled in many different ways, so today I'm going to just touch on one key area (and leave other topics for future weeks)."

Game: Madden NFL 10Reader Score: 7.5/10 - Vote Now
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Member Comments

# 101 SageInfinite @ 03/17/09 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	If you can place your body weight on your pivot foot, and lift your unpivoted weightless opposite foot...and then turn against your monentum without cutting or jump cutting...I will call you Jesus Christ from now on. This act, defies the laws of physics, and nature.

We should be callin you that with all that stuff you said you did in your previous post

# 102 Glorious Arc @ 03/17/09 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	If you can place your body weight on your pivot foot, and lift your unpivoted weightless opposite foot...and then turn against your monentum without cutting or jump cutting...I will call you Jesus Christ from now on. This act, defies the laws of physics, and nature.

Clear this up for me in the first turn that the player makes. Which foot do you consider to be his pivot foot? He isnt turning 90 degrees instantly which I would have a problem with if he didnt do a juke but he is turning instead he continues to move a few yards and as he makes that cut/move/turn/whatever you want to call it he uses his right foot to plant and push off then as his next step comes he is now facing more to the right and he plants then with his left foot to straighten himself out.

# 103 Cnada @ 03/17/09 04:24 AM

Hey Ian good Blog thought you would skip this week with the review and Alpha etc.

Im not a fan of these specific animation/graphic changes. Yes i know they work and you guys work hard on them but in the big picture of the game i think the development time should be used to upgrade other areas.

Momentum,weight,locomotion yes they sound really fancy and look cool when you look just at those little things up close but its EXACTLY like last year
-Sideline Catches
-Spectacular Catch
-Slipping in the Rain (boy there was some hype on that)

Point im making is that all those little bits did little or nothing to upgrade gameplay.
My receivers never make sideline catches inbound ive seen the animation a million times and its always out of bounds making them look dumb.
Spectacular catch was cool but you removed the majority of it in 09 (i never see it in the endzone)
Slipping in the rain....never happens.

Yes when you guys have debug versions you guys get to see all those cool things...the end user rarely see's them. I play 2 games a day and looking back the things i take away from madden 09 is
1. Commentary
2. Presentation a little bit of stats are cool i wanna see diagrams again
3.Preplay Augmentations

See??

# 104 Sef0r @ 03/17/09 05:39 AM

I agree wholeheartedly with what Guillotine 1 is saying.
I mean imagine, you running torward a wall and you have 2 choices. Plant and turn right or left. If upon planting my right foot in front of me and then proceeding to turn right, my head would smack into the wall. If your right foot was in front of you your natural instinct would be to turn left. If you really wanted to turn right, you would plant your left foot. Anyone who doesn't understand that logic and think athletes can do it easily with about 14 pounds worth of gear on should try it...video it and put it on youtube.

This is work in progress and I'm sure Ian knew about it and if he didn't he knows about it now.
Because this is work in progress, I will accept that the lean looks unnatural when the player turns, that while turning in those videos it seems like an 8-way D pad is being used...these are acceptable because these are not in game yet with other models and tweaking.

# 105 shttymcgee @ 03/17/09 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	If you can place your body weight on your pivot foot, and lift your unpivoted weightless opposite foot...and then turn against your monentum without cutting or jump cutting...I will call you Jesus Christ from now on. This act, defies the laws of physics, and nature.

The whole idea of a "speed cut" is exactly this. I guess every receiver that ever played for Martz (just one example of a coach who teaches speed cuts) must have had omnipetent powers.

Their "3" cut was a speed-out that broke off the 4th OUTSIDE step.

# 106 adembroski @ 03/17/09 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sef0r


	I agree wholeheartedly with what Guillotine 1 is saying. I mean imagine, you running torward a wall and you have 2 choices. Plant and turn right or left. If upon planting my right foot in front of me and then proceeding to turn right, my head would smack into the wall. If your right foot was in front of you your natural instinct would be to turn left. If you really wanted to turn right, you would plant your left foot. Anyone who doesn't understand that logic and think athletes can do it easily with about 14 pounds worth of gear on should try it...video it and put it on youtube

The wall isn't trying to catch you.

# 107 shttymcgee @ 03/17/09 06:24 AM

Additionally, a torn ACL has little to do with turning/twisting. ACL injuries happen when forward/downward momentum is abruptly stopped with the forefoot (could happen in the air with enough force put onto the lower leg).

MCL injuries happen when the knee collapses "inward" toward the bodies midline and of course aren't repaired anymore any way if one's is torn.

I understand what you're getting at with your critiques of changing of direction, you're just exaggerating a little too much.

Changing direction animations should be numerous, and since they're motion-capped, as long as they don't alter them too much, they should have at least been demonstrated by a living human.

# 108 raphael @ 03/17/09 06:25 AM

that's some sexy stuff, defenitely adds to the realism.

# 109 adembroski @ 03/17/09 06:32 AM

You know, I didn't notice it at first, but Ian seems to have opened up to something.

This is from a while ago... during a conversation regarding the sprint button and the concept of getting rid of it, which I'm am vehemently against, by the way, he said something to the effect of, "It doesn't matter, everyone just lays on the sprint button anyways." (to which my response is, "well, yeah, that's part of the problem with Madden.")

Anyways, in this blog, in says the following.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings


	You need to read your blockers, wait for holes to open up, and stop holding the sprint button the entire time if you want to successfully run the ball.

Very nice... way to rethink it, Ian. Glad you're open minded like that.

Not saying he still wouldn't ditch the sprint button, but at least he recognized the "everyone laying on sprint button" as not the sprint button's fault, but the fact that it doesn't handicap you like it should.

Part of the game of football- especially the running game- is knowing when to turn on the juice. Lots of backs with all kinds of talent never make it because they're impatient. They wanna hit the jets and go. The use of the sprint button should be a tactical decision on the part of the player, to be used when warranted, but a handicap when misused.

# 110 Exonerated @ 03/17/09 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	You know, I didn't notice it at first, but Ian seems to have opened up to something. This is from a while ago... during a conversation regarding the sprint button and the concept of getting rid of it, which I'm am vehemently against, by the way, he said something to the effect of, "It doesn't matter, everyone just lays on the sprint button anyways." (to which my response is, "well, yeah, that's part of the problem with Madden.") Anyways, in this blog, in says the following. Very nice... way to rethink it, Ian. Glad you're open minded like that. Not saying he still wouldn't ditch the sprint button, but at least he recognized the "everyone laying on sprint button" as not the sprint button's fault, but the fact that it doesn't handicap you like it should. Part of the game of football- especially the running game- is knowing when to turn on the juice. Lots of backs with all kinds of talent never make it because they're impatient. They wanna hit the jets and go. The use of the sprint button should be a tactical decision on the part of the player, to be used when warranted, but a handicap when misused.

Yes. This is why track athletes do not make good running backs. They're always on the jets.

# 111 K_GUN @ 03/17/09 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outkizast


	I LOVED this blog! It is precisely what was needed... it really makes agility, more than speed per say, matter.... I was playing madden 09 on the ps2 the other day and noticed how much i missed that turn radius... it makes all the players move MUCH more realistically.... gracias

is that the effect of trying to turn a battleship?....a sluggish response when sweeping outside?...hopefully it's not like that

# 112 TheWatcher @ 03/17/09 08:20 AM

Madden 09, loose and risky

Tight and secure

Notice how the ball is tighter to the body in the second pic. In the first pic, it's just asking for a strip. If he were Walter Payton (who never had sound carrying fundamentals, but it didn't seem to stop him!) I wouldn't worry, but nobody is Walter Payton.

Most backs today carry very tight because defensive coaches are teaching almost religiously to go for the strip. Willis McGahee is probably the best model of that tighter hold.

P.S. Thanks to 83Evans for the picture examples.

# 113 MichaelHoglund @ 03/17/09 08:37 AM

Definitely the way to go if you truly want the sim experience. Awesome to get these updates into how your process works.

# 114 KG @ 03/17/09 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageInfinite


	We should be callin you that with all that stuff you said you did in your previous post

I thought the same thing. I was digging what Guillotine was saying until he posted his feats of strength.

I agree with his statement thought that if you try a "full blown" cut pivoting off your inside foot you will reap the physical damages. Seriously, just back away from your monitor/laptop/etc and walk through the motions pivoting off your inside foot. You will notice how unnatural it feels. Now, imagine doing that running at a much faster pace. Turns on the other hand are much different.

That pic posted of Barry was definately a jump-cut though. He was famous for those.

# 115 Tyrant8RDFL @ 03/17/09 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	I want to work through this openly, so we all understnad what were getting, expecting, and what Ian is doing. This way the results will be what we all want. When I looked at the runner running in those videos, it didn't look, or seem to feel real or right. In my humble opinion, the runner was on the wrong foot at times. He would lean, step, turn on his pivot feet going the other way, and then the correct leg would move and the cooresponding foot would hit the ground. He runner never put his head up, shoulders back, and strided through his max speed with a sprinters form. Go back, watch the tape. This is good, but....nevermind...

Homie Just remember it did state it was Work in Progress, so why comment on it as if it was the final version.

I hear what your saying but he is giving us bits and pieces, and its only March , which is far from anything being final.

Lets wait till July than make comments on what we see, but in March it's way to soon and it's not fair.

# 116 thejake @ 03/17/09 09:36 AM

I tend to think that he is getting these wider turns by kind of rotating the stick around the circle. I'm thinking that if you jam the stick from up to right real quickly, that will probably trigger a cut animation where you still turn 90 degrees but lose some speed. Just a guess.

# 117 S1ARk5 @ 03/17/09 09:39 AM

Man I am really not trying to bash Ian and the rest of the guys at work on Madden but really I saw hardly any major difference between the two animatiosn 09 & 10. This is why I still think EA does not get it, really these new animations will make no difference in making madden a more realsitic game and the game we wall want to recreate what we see on sunday. I mean both animations are just HORRID in my humble opinion.

I think the whole problem with the Madden team is that they do not realize Madden NEEDS a complete overhaul in the running machanics to even have these "new" animations matter.

This is what Im supposed to get excited about? boy it is going to another long summer for football gaming. Lets hope NCAA actually comes through.

# 118 Phobia @ 03/17/09 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAN


	These changes, along with the game speed changes, have made major strides in giving Madden that extra layer of a 'thinking man's game'. For the future vision of Madden, we want a football coach that's never played Madden before to be able to take down a Madden Challenge competitor...and these are some of the steps to get us to that goal.

When this happens it will be the greatest day for Madden. It will mean Madden has finally become the sim we all hope it will become.

With that said I am extremely pumped for madden this year. I have not purchased Madden since 05. But Ian you have my pre-order already. This is the kind of work that will make me want to support Madden. With a realism goal in mind, I will gladly support the cause. Thanks for the more (NFL2k5) approach!!!!!!!!!!!!!

# 119 roadman @ 03/17/09 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrville


	I dont think people should defend Ian with its only March crap. He nev..... nevermind.

Your right. It's only St. Patricks Day.

# 120 Tyrant8RDFL @ 03/17/09 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrville


	I dont think people should defend Ian with its only March crap. He nev..... nevermind.

Its the truth, its only MARCH, not July or August.

The Video said clear as DAY, its WORK IN PROGRESS, and people are commenting on it as if it was the final version.

I will also side with anyone I choose to as Long as I feel they deserve support. I don't care if it's Ian , you, or anyone else in this forum.

I guess you feel since Im defending Ian Im only doing so cause Ian is EA lead man.
Wrong I have received infractions for coming down hard on Ian, but like I said what is right is right.

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