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NCAA Football 10 News Post

EA has posted another NCAA Football 10 blog. This one features player pursuit angles.

Quote:
"As you can see given the same situation as our previous example the defenders are not thrown off their angle by the direction changes. Long story short… the defenders do not fall for every direction change, but instead will move to intercept the ball carrier at a more logical location. This will really cut down on the effectiveness of “twitch” runs.

Also the new Player Pursuit will recognize a ball carrier pulling away from a slower defender and make them attempt a diving tackle. This creates more tackles and more realistic chase situations… more often than not a player will attempt a dive as a last ditched effort when they know they are falling behind, not just continue to follow the ball carrier.

That isn’t all; this new system has allowed us to have defenders sometimes take a bad angle using the Pursuit Rating (PUR) of the player. Bad pursuit is a part of football, not every player will play the perfect angle every play. So playing against lower rated players (or younger players with lower PUR) you will see them over run a play allowing the ball carrier to cut back against the gain and pick up some more yards."

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Member Comments
# 121 deadlyCane @ 03/27/09 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the onizzle
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ers-chime.html

Pg 1, he says "it's the most current build we have"
And for more info Ian chimed in another thread over at Madden. Both links and quote follows: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-madden-4.html

In post #34 of the above referenced thread Ian responded to a question concerning whether the momentum and turning physics in Madden '10 will be applied to NCAA '10:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
We're doing our own thing...but they can take whatever they want (I believe)
So is CountryBoy classy enough to pay me a loud public apology or will he remain an EA apologist who tries to hammer people to think as he does?

Like any smart consumer I'll continue to reserve my excitement until I have more solid info. I wasn't born yesterday.

To be fair, I have to give EA credit. At least they are being honest when asked these questions and are not avoiding the questions. That goes a long way in establishing trust.
 
# 122 icomb1ne @ 03/28/09 01:07 AM
Let's not be insulting anyone here.
 
# 123 noplace @ 03/28/09 09:08 AM
On thing I've come the realize with EA titles. What you see is what you get. This will be the same game with some minor tweaks.
 
# 124 countryboy @ 03/28/09 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlyCane
And for more info Ian chimed in another thread over at Madden. Both links and quote follows: http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-madden-4.html

In post #34 of the above referenced thread Ian responded to a question concerning whether the momentum and turning physics in Madden '10 will be applied to NCAA '10:


So is CountryBoy classy enough to pay me a loud public apology or will he remain an EA apologist who tries to hammer people to think as he does?

Like any smart consumer I'll continue to reserve my excitement until I have more solid info. I wasn't born yesterday.

To be fair, I have to give EA credit. At least they are being honest when asked these questions and are not avoiding the questions. That goes a long way in establishing trust.
Why would I apologize to you?
 
# 125 FlyingFinn @ 03/28/09 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exonerated
Its the 09 build with an 10 update.

To hide their new features for NCAA 10, they had to use NCAA 09 build but implement their NCAA 10 pursuit angle.

Its the same thing they did with the camera angle screen shot. The one with no pocket vs the one with a pocket.


To think the game will be not radically different from these vids is a bit naive...

To think they will reveal all their new features in a 10 second vid and ruin their 3 month plan about marketting is very naive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the onizzle
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ers-chime.html

Pg 1, he says "it's the most current build we have"
pwned
 
# 126 TrevJo @ 03/30/09 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler289
Looks good, hopefully in NCAA10 we don't see stuff like that WVU play that really showed how bad pursuit angles were.
Wow, I just saw this play that you were talking about.
http://www.easportsworld.com/en_US/video/64297

I think people may be missing one of the big things here. Forget line play interaction, even though this is a 10 build, maybe they are still working on it. What about backside defense? It's all well and good that sideline pursuit angles are improved. But one of the the big problems with the WVU play above is that guys on the backside don't stay home to protect the cut back across the field.

It's not stated in the blog whether the backside stuff is fixed, and from the NCAA 10 videos, I'm not sure it is.
 
# 127 sportzbro @ 03/30/09 01:59 PM
wow after watching that it definitley needs to be addressed...seriously is a huge flaw.
 
# 128 wakeforest123 @ 03/30/09 10:32 PM
what happened to the blue yard line...why just the gold one again?
 
# 129 OMT @ 03/31/09 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevJo
Wow, I just saw this play that you were talking about.
http://www.easportsworld.com/en_US/video/64297

I think people may be missing one of the big things here. Forget line play interaction, even though this is a 10 build, maybe they are still working on it. What about backside defense? It's all well and good that sideline pursuit angles are improved. But one of the the big problems with the WVU play above is that guys on the backside don't stay home to protect the cut back across the field.

It's not stated in the blog whether the backside stuff is fixed, and from the NCAA 10 videos, I'm not sure it is.
Here's my problem with that video... the defender appears to be playing a zone. He's playing part of the field, not the ball carrier. The guy controlling the running back is intentionally not getting close enough for the defender to engage him.

What should we spend our time on tuning defensively? How defenders react to real football plays, or how they react to someone running around in circles in the backfield?
 
# 130 jfsolo @ 03/31/09 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT
Here's my problem with that video... the defender appears to be playing a zone. He's playing part of the field, not the ball carrier. The guy controlling the running back is intentionally not getting close enough for the defender to engage him.

What should we spend our time on tuning defensively? How defenders react to real football plays, or how they react to someone running around in circles in the backfield?
I would argue that if the A.I. was programed with a "understanding" of fundamental football logic, then the aberrant, nonsensical plays would be automatically destroyed as a natural byproduct of that logic.

I guess its just really, really difficult to program the A.I. to be more dynamic in its execution of its responsibilities, and how to have a proper sense of what playing as a team really entails.
 
# 131 FlyingFinn @ 03/31/09 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT
Here's my problem with that video... the defender appears to be playing a zone. He's playing part of the field, not the ball carrier. The guy controlling the running back is intentionally not getting close enough for the defender to engage him.

What should we spend our time on tuning defensively? How defenders react to real football plays, or how they react to someone running around in circles in the backfield?
Still doesn't explain why the defense runs away from the ball carrier near the goal line Hopefully, this pursuit angle fixes that and gets rid of the school fish defense
 
# 132 noplace @ 03/31/09 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT
Here's my problem with that video... the defender appears to be playing a zone. He's playing part of the field, not the ball carrier. The guy controlling the running back is intentionally not getting close enough for the defender to engage him.

What should we spend our time on tuning defensively? How defenders react to real football plays, or how they react to someone running around in circles in the backfield?
Dont you dare try to justify that!! Thats wrong on every front OMT & you know it. Defenders shouldnt be reacting to moves done 20 to 30 miles away from them. They should be running to the football taking correct angles.
 
# 133 youALREADYknow @ 03/31/09 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT
Here's my problem with that video... the defender appears to be playing a zone. He's playing part of the field, not the ball carrier. The guy controlling the running back is intentionally not getting close enough for the defender to engage him.

What should we spend our time on tuning defensively? How defenders react to real football plays, or how they react to someone running around in circles in the backfield?
The problem that you're not mentioning is that defenders operate as a unit and have assignments. These assignments are not programmed into the game and thus the defense can be easily exploited by taking advantage of individual player strengths/weaknesses and defensive play type. This is part of the reason why speed becomes so important and why the only true read we need against the CPU is whether they are in Man or Zone.

The defenders have no concept of weak side protection, no concept of filtering the ball carrier towards other defenders, and seemingly only react AFTER an event has occurred instead of pro-actively making decisions as a defensive unit. In that video, there is obviously no recognition by the defense that the play has "broken down" in the backfield and they are still playing zone 30 seconds after the snap. That's horrendous AI design, not a justifiable reason for poor defense. Why are DT's still hand fighting with linemen in the fake pocket? Why is there a 10 second pattern of one-on-one circle running near a sideline with nobody coming to stop the cutback lane to the opposite side of the field?

I'll give you an example that I see in every game of NCAA 09:

User comes out in a Twin WR set with both WR lined up on the left. CPU comes out in Man defense and immediately the User sees that they can bring any fast WR across the field to the open side where they will be open 99 out of 100 times if they are faster than the DB. They can also run a toss or option play to the weak side for a nearly automatic big gain.

Why is the SS playing a deep zone on an unmanned portion of the field on these plays? Why is the OLB on the weak side not playing outside contain? Why is the DE on the weak side not containing the QB/HB and forcing them back inside?

There is nothing absurd about the offensive execution of these plays, yet we see the same exact poor team AI that leads to easy exploitation of the CPU.
 
# 134 mjussawalla @ 03/31/09 02:33 PM
The problem from that video is that as soon as the RB cuts upfield, the defenders move backward. They do not keep their bodies square to the running back and move latterally.

OMT, do CPU defenders strafe in 10?

Thanks,
 
# 135 deadlyCane @ 03/31/09 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by noplace
Dont you dare try to justify that!! Thats wrong on every front OMT & you know it. Defenders shouldnt be reacting to moves done 20 to 30 miles away from them. They should be running to the football taking correct angles.
Ouch!!!
 
# 136 deadlyCane @ 03/31/09 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT
Here's my problem with that video... the defender appears to be playing a zone. He's playing part of the field, not the ball carrier. The guy controlling the running back is intentionally not getting close enough for the defender to engage him.

What should we spend our time on tuning defensively? How defenders react to real football plays, or how they react to someone running around in circles in the backfield?
This kind of mentality makes me no less skeptical of EA in general and specifically NCAA 2010.
 
# 137 TrevJo @ 03/31/09 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMT
Here's my problem with that video... the defender appears to be playing a zone. He's playing part of the field, not the ball carrier. The guy controlling the running back is intentionally not getting close enough for the defender to engage him.

What should we spend our time on tuning defensively? How defenders react to real football plays, or how they react to someone running around in circles in the backfield?
I appreciate the response.

I'll buy that defenders in zone responsibility have to respect the HB pass so long as the HB has not crossed the line of scrimmage.

Two things:

1. The defensive linemen do not have zone coverage. Look at the three defenders being blocked that are on the 50 yard line on the far side from the camera 2-3 seconds into the play, and watch what they do. Those guys need to try to close in by coming laterally across the field. Instead they try to take these huge pursuit angles back toward the pylon on the near side of the camera. That's really the biggest problem here, it's what allows the RB to cut back and still have plenty of space. There need to be different rules for backside pursuit, rather than every defender trying to cut off the same expected runner path.

2. 28 seconds into the video, the RB (finally) crosses the line of scrimmage. (He probably crosses the line 20 seconds in actually, but he definitely crosses it 28 seconds in.) At that point, no one should be playing zone. Pause the replay when the RB crosses the Georgia 45 yard line. Look at the Georgia defenders that are near the hash mark. They are running backwards toward the sideline because of the RB's speed. The problem is, there are other defenders that are closer to the sideline that already have that angle cut off. These guys near the hash mark need to come UPfield to take away the cutback angle. Instead they get drawn back toward the sideline, and the RB then cuts back for a wide-open jaunt to the other sideline. So really this is the same problem as #1, but with the runner beyond the line of scrimmage.

(3) Total side note here, but it looks like the RB is running just as fast 40 seconds into the play as he is at the start. There is no way that should happen. Maybe he gets slowed down a bit but obviously it's not nearly enough. Sprinting and making hard cuts for more than a few seconds is incredibly exhausting.

In "real football plays", people don't run around in circles because it doesn't work. In the game, you've got to make things like running in circles not work, otherwise many competitive gamers will not treat it like real football!
 
# 138 TrevJo @ 03/31/09 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by youALREADYknow
The problem that you're not mentioning is that defenders operate as a unit and have assignments
...
The defenders have no concept of weak side protection, no concept of filtering the ball carrier towards other defenders
...
Correct.
 
# 139 lesco543 @ 04/02/09 10:10 PM
looks really good. a lot more realistic. I hope it is still possible to fake a defensive player through change of direction by a skilled HB though. but that'll be a lot more realistic. CAN YOU GUYS make HALF SOCKS MORE PREVALENT PLEASE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? like in real NCAA, most all guys have half high socks or ankles braces
 
# 140 mjussawalla @ 04/03/09 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevJo
I appreciate the response.

I'll buy that defenders in zone responsibility have to respect the HB pass so long as the HB has not crossed the line of scrimmage.

Two things:

1. The defensive linemen do not have zone coverage. Look at the three defenders being blocked that are on the 50 yard line on the far side from the camera 2-3 seconds into the play, and watch what they do. Those guys need to try to close in by coming laterally across the field. Instead they try to take these huge pursuit angles back toward the pylon on the near side of the camera. That's really the biggest problem here, it's what allows the RB to cut back and still have plenty of space. There need to be different rules for backside pursuit, rather than every defender trying to cut off the same expected runner path.

2. 28 seconds into the video, the RB (finally) crosses the line of scrimmage. (He probably crosses the line 20 seconds in actually, but he definitely crosses it 28 seconds in.) At that point, no one should be playing zone. Pause the replay when the RB crosses the Georgia 45 yard line. Look at the Georgia defenders that are near the hash mark. They are running backwards toward the sideline because of the RB's speed. The problem is, there are other defenders that are closer to the sideline that already have that angle cut off. These guys near the hash mark need to come UPfield to take away the cutback angle. Instead they get drawn back toward the sideline, and the RB then cuts back for a wide-open jaunt to the other sideline. So really this is the same problem as #1, but with the runner beyond the line of scrimmage.

(3) Total side note here, but it looks like the RB is running just as fast 40 seconds into the play as he is at the start. There is no way that should happen. Maybe he gets slowed down a bit but obviously it's not nearly enough. Sprinting and making hard cuts for more than a few seconds is incredibly exhausting.

In "real football plays", people don't run around in circles because it doesn't work. In the game, you've got to make things like running in circles not work, otherwise many competitive gamers will not treat it like real football!
Good post.

The D needs to work in mini-teams of 3 or so once the HB or WR passes the LOS.

One to block the runner from going up the sidelines, one to prevent the cutback and the other to zero down on him.

This can only happen if the defenders can move their bodies parallel to the LOS and strafe and have the AI to know where their teammates are.
 


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