Backbreaker News Post

Backbreaker Video: Developer Diary #1

02:43 PM - February 5, 2010 by Phobia

Check out the Backbreaker Developer diary #1 video.

1:03 - Legs driving breaking a tackle and keeps going
1:07 - Same thing
1:27 - Sack QB then Fumbles LOOKS NICE!!!!

Pros
Looks beautiful
Tackles and interactions are amazing

Cons
A lot of warping
Catch animations look funky

Overview
Looks promising but still looks too rigid, too much warping, and a general lack of polish across the board still.

Hope they can fix some of these issues because the engine alone is worth owning the game.

Game: BackbreakerReader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 51 - View All

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Member Comments

# 81 turftickler @ 02/08/10 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMD


	How any fan of video game football could not be anything but impressed with this game simply confuses me. This game is going to do things no other football game has done, and from what I saw and heard in that clip , it will do them well. Can't wait to give it a try on launch day.

Amen, brother. Preach it!

# 82 JayBee74 @ 02/08/10 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMD


	How any fan of video game football could not be anything but impressed with this game simply confuses me. This game is going to do things no other football game has done, and from what I saw and heard in that clip , it will do them well. Can't wait to give it a try on launch day.

I'm with you. I'd be satisfied with some more info, some actual gameplay (human on human or human VS AI), or a playable demo.

# 83 strawberryshortcake @ 02/08/10 10:01 PM

I too am extremely excited, but there are some frightening concerns I have with this game. I want them to succeed. I have already pointed out some positives in my prior post (link at the end of this post below). But the game can only get better if there are people constructively critiquing the game from an unbiased stance in combination with developers taking those critiques into account and acting on them.

I have seen some negatives that should be addressed. I’ll point them out as I go along in a later post(s). A quick one that unfortunately has some resemblance to “EAMadden” – Defensive back (DB)/corner back (CB) understands the route better than the offense. Fundamentally, this is not something that I would dismiss lightly.

Look at both player’s helmet head-tracking the football. This is an offensive pass play to a tight end receiver.

Corner Back: CB#20 makes the cut on the ball first to make an interception.
Tight End: TE#89 soon after will follow with his cut to attempt to make a catch.
Game play footage in trailer is seen at @2:52 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dV4XPCFJVQ )
Gameplay footage reveals #20 has no hesitation or hick-up in his foot route. It's a seamless transition as if #20 was expecting the ball. #89 was also expecting the ball to be thrown in the direction.
Note: I wanted to see the good in this one particular play, but I can’t. I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Initially, I wanted to believe #20 was a running back to the flat. But, then you’ll have to figure out why #89 decided to “headtrack” to attempt to catch the football a split second after #20 headtracks the football for a catch (e.g. interception? vs. completion?). Even though #20 looks to be going up field after the catch, I am not sure if it’s meant to be an interception or completion. I believe #89 is the intended receiver. If #89 was a defender, the question becomes why would he have attempted to make a catch at the last minute after the CB#20 made the interception.

For the second dev installment, I would prefer not to see any more tackles or receptions. They already look solid as can be. I also don’t want to see any offensive schemes (e.g. throwing or running with the ball) either. I would like to see defensive schemes in their second installment. I want to see some footage of: (1) WR vs CB interaction (2) OL vs DL interaction, etc.

There is one major concern that I have, and I believe it could fix some issues, and I will post it later. It is something we/I have not seen in any backbreaker footage yet.

My previous post(s) in this thread: Positive light on backbreaker.
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/2040717206-post68.html

# 84 strawberryshortcake @ 02/08/10 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	did you take into consideration that, that DB was controlled by a human and not CPU....and there for knew to break on the pass.... who says the devs don't play with a different camera view that won't be in the regular game.....this camera view, used to help make highlight worthy plays easier... I believe they said a while ago that CPU players can only "see" a certain section on the field, basically what's in front of them.....if anyone else remembers chime in. I mean, they chose to show that....they seem like smart guys, I think they just wanted to show a nice animation for an INT.

I did take into account the possible player vs. player control. I also did take into account this was possibly purposely done as well. I want them to succeed. Believe me, I do.

I am sure there are bright minds working down at NaturalMotion.

But we really need to look at this with a critical eye as well and ultimately present them to the developing staff so they can be addressed. You have to also take into account that this could very well be a CPU vs. CPU matchup. Wouldn't it be a better strategy to show a proper CB read on both the ball & WR before making the interception? The footage here shows the CB understanding the route better than the WR even if it's player control, it would have been better if it wasn't that apparent.

I also did factor in the camera view. I mentioned that backbreaker uses both the traditional sky-view/NORTH-SOUTH camera angle plus a new 3rd person / EAST-WEST camera angle.

I fully took everything into account.

What confuses me is the way #20 (CB? vs. RB?) reacts after the catch. I question the entire play because #20 made the reception and is running upfield towards the endzone (we'll arbitrarily call it NORTH) in one single swift beautiful motion. The football pass was heading in the NORTH-WEST (sidelines) direction. Technically, #20 was heading in the NORTH-EAST direction after the "catch."

Thereafter, we don't know what #20 was going to do. My hopes is that he was going to stop his own momentum by forcefully planting both feet as he came down with the ball, then proceed to quickly reverse direction and head SOUTH. That would have been something that would have been smart to have included.

# 85 TheKasmar @ 02/08/10 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strawberryshortcake


	but there are some frightening concerns I have with this game.

Dont be scared. It's just a Developer Diary. Secondary AI has been implemented poorly in quite a few football games. Is it really realistic to get defensive back mechanics down the first time? Wait until we se extensive gameplay before we judge the defensive AI or become frightened.

# 86 sanders @ 02/10/10 03:57 PM

Looks to me like the DB is running to cover the tight end and looks to see if the ball is coming. When he sees that it is he breaks to make the interception. The tight end is timing his turn based on the play. So here I think you're simply seeing the db reacting to what IS happening because he sees the ball before TE gets to the time where he is supposed to break to the ball based on the design of the play.

Besides that I think its way too early and too small a look at the game to be scrutinizing a clip this much.

# 87 major major @ 02/10/10 05:45 PM

All very good points, but at least his head turned to see the ball.

# 88 PantherBeast_OS @ 02/11/10 09:01 PM

I am not trying to beat a dead horse here. But I am still be quit honest to tell you the truth. This to me still looks like another blitz football game with a better engine. This game might be good with the new engine and all. But to me is still spells just another blitz game period until I see the full game in action.

# 89 michiganwolvs33 @ 02/12/10 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantherbeast


	I am not trying to beat a dead horse here. But I am still be quit honest to tell you the truth. This to me still looks like another blitz football game with a better engine. This game might be good with the new engine and all. But to me is still spells just another blitz game period until I see the full game in action.

It seems to me that people think this game is going to be "just another Blitz" because it doesn't look like Madden. But that's just me.
Also, people keep talking about a demo. Have the devs confirmed this? Because I don't know anything about it and I'm on the BB forums everyday.

# 90 LingeringRegime @ 02/12/10 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afrikan


	here, read up on the game....I think you'll be surprised...its nothing like Blitz it might actually be one of the best simulations of the sport.... this gives you an idea of how you play the game... Art of Control http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/854/854993p1.html and here is a link to other interviews and articles explaining the game http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/958/958004_articles.html

Thanks so much for these links man. I am feening for some BB info.

# 91 Evan_OS @ 02/12/10 07:04 PM

I'm not sure if I will like the Camra idea, but I'll have too see when it comes out. Otherwise it sounds great!

# 92 strawberryshortcake @ 02/13/10 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeBlueDude


	I'm not sure if I will like the Camra idea, but I'll have too see when it comes out. Otherwise it sounds great!

The camera angle is growing on me, especially from the Quarterback (QB) position. The need to actually look "over the shoulders" of both OL & DL to scan for open receivers will make the offensive attack/scheme more difficult than traditional "skyview." Hopefully, judging whether the receiver is truly open will also be much more difficult. Hopefully, this added vision of difficulty decreases "arcade-type" offensive scores at will.

In NFL2K5, we sort of have already seen something along the lines of what Backbreaker wants to do, albeit in a first person perspective (and not 3^rd person). Not backbreaker, but some resemblance.

NFL2K5 – First Person Point of View
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdpmB...eature=related
NFL2K4 – First Person Point of View
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ068W8KRzI

Short Version
I would like to see WR vs. DB line of scrimmage and down field interaction:

Back Pedaling
WR vs. DB interaction
Back Pedaling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vFIun1WYzo
WR vs. DB interaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HD3AYThmqA

Long Version
I have yet to see WR vs. DB interactions (“battling for field position”) in footage. There are others (and will be named in a later post(s)), but here are two points I would like to see implemented (hopefully they’re in the works):

WR vs. DB line of scrimmage interaction, including bump & run coverage.
Back Pedaling by defensive backs, and other defenders

A) WR vs. DB Line of scrimmage interaction, including bump and run coverage
Anything remotely on par with this would be super, whether that be 50% plus or minus. I obviously don’t know how difficult this would be to implement.

WR vs. DB interaction (’08 Nike Training Camp: USC: WR vs. DB)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HD3AYThmqA
- (same video as the one in the "Short version" up top)
I would like to see DB keep tab on his assigned WR either through:
- “Head tracking” the WR whether it’s aimed at the head, shoulders, hips, feet, arms, or any part of the body to determine the intended direction of the WR.
- Feel out the WR simultaneously with his arm while head tracking both the quarterback (QB) / football.

The only remote preview of WR vs. DB interaction can be seen @2:13 (screenshots series right below if you don't want to watch the video again.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBuxT...eature=related

Obviously not the most impressive display of the bump & run or WR vs. DB line of scrimmage interaction either, but it’s a small taste of what we might expect to see. Improvements definitely need to be made. I would like to see improved footage in their next set of Developer’s Diary.

B) Back Pedaling
Back pedaling especially by defensive backs (DB), or any defenders.

Back Pedaling – APF2K5 (Deion Sanders coverage)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vFIun1WYzo
This is the same one you saw up in the "short version." This needs to be in the game. The DB should also have the ability to quickly make a quick break, and adjust his forward and/or backward motion in any direction.

If you think about it, if “back pedaling” is effectively implemented with DB, it can also carry over to the OL vs. DL interactions when the situation calls for it whether that be in an “extreme” or “modified” situation. Obviously, in a less agile manner.

The “extreme” version would be when DL completely bull rushes the OL causing the entire OL to collapse, and when the OL completely rushes the DL causing the entire DL to collapses. The “modified” version would take place where the OL generates enough force/momentum to stand their ground. In the case of OL vs. DL interaction, “back pedaling” components would allow us to see “momentum” and “force” at work, as can be seen here in the very first play:

Senior Bowl Practice – Lineman 1 on 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lao69rFaW9w
-OL has a “modified” back pedal motion. His upper body is still attempting to hold his ground. With proper “back pedal” and modified back pedal program coding, what we see in the above video might be possible, hopefully from an optimistic fan standpoint. What footages we have seen in Backbreaker, we haven’t really seen “push” from the defensive line (DL) or any “resistance” from the offensive line (OL), and vice versa. I want to see “STRENGTH” and “FORCE” implemented through “push” and “resistance.”

Step-over Technique
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TMwm...eature=related
-Just the beginning part to illustrate “push” and “resistance” to show strength, force, momentum, resistance, etc.

My other post(s) in this thread:
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/2040717206-post68.html
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...0-post112.html

# 93 t11 @ 02/14/10 01:01 PM

I wouldn't bet on the game being that realistic if Madden can't even do it, and they have been around for years and years

# 94 SageInfinite @ 02/14/10 01:41 PM

Anybody know when the second Developer Diary is being released?

# 95 t11 @ 02/14/10 01:45 PM

Most likely next friday.

# 96 kjcheezhead @ 02/14/10 01:52 PM

Great post Strawberry.

That Nike wr/db video really shows what db/wr should be like. It has examples of great coverage and examples of dbs getting beat.

This part of the game is really hard to grade off of these early videos. You have to take into account what level the game is on. If it is done correctly, we should see worse db coverage at the lower levels and better as you increase it. Where Madden goes wrong is the jostling looks the best on pro/rookie level and then the game gives the dbs "cheats" as you up the difficulty.

The other thing is the camera angle. People are used to the "god view" and can see open wrs with ease. With a camera view that lowers the vision, it could be more difficult. We all have heard the phrase about wrs being considered "open" at the pro level being "covered" at the college level. The developers may be trying to compensate for people's limited view. I hope this is the case because it means sliders/patches can tighten the coverage later on if the coverage design is good.

# 97 Swingking77 @ 02/15/10 03:16 PM

I'm assuming so... The Devs said they wanted to make the game "feel" like you were on the feild... I can only guess that this means loud crowds. And from what the previews have shown, the stadium sounds, sound pretty great!

# 98 michiganwolvs33 @ 02/15/10 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segagendude


	Call me crazy, but I'm curious about something----- With the stadiums looking like they can hold 100,000+ fans, will it *sound* that way?

They actually did a whole dev diary way back that was just over the sounds in the game.

# 99 SageInfinite @ 02/15/10 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t11


	Most likely next friday.

Thanx.

# 100 Eman5805 @ 02/15/10 10:23 PM

Am I the only person that wonders what a basketball game driven by Euphoria would look like? More specifically, if a game could use some kind of physics driven engine on contact to the basket.

Just a thought.

Anyway, I'm still VERY underwhelmed by player movement. I mean, those jokes are just...what.

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