Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Blog: Catch Tuning

11:44 AM - March 24, 2010 by marktg30

Ian Cummings has just posted his first of many Madden NFL 11 blogs, leading up to the release. In this blog, he talks about catch tuning, with a video from Madden NFL 10, showing catches that will be removed this year.

Quote:


	"Well it�s hard to believe, but Madden NFL 11 will be here before you know it! The development team here at EA Sports Tiburon in sunny Orlando, FL has been hard at work trying to put together the best football game in history (our goal each year). We started off the season with a video blog introducing you to some of the team members, along with their whiteboards. Since then, we have been focusing on many different areas in the game from presentation to franchise to online, but this week we wanted to talk about everyone�s favorite aspect of Madden NFL � Gameplay. More specifically, catching."

FYI: Internet Explorer has issues opening the blog. Opening the link in Firefox seems to be fine.

Game: Madden NFL 11Reader Score: 6/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 96 - View All

Madden NFL 11 Videos

Member Comments

# 61 Droopy03 @ 03/24/10 07:42 PM

Good stuff but I want to hear about DEFENSE!!!!! 3-4 DEFENSE!!!!

# 62 splff3000 @ 03/24/10 08:20 PM

I just remembered something that that used to happen in the old NCAA game that used to bother the heck out of me. Sometimes, the WR would try make a sideline catch, even though he was nowhere near the sidelines. The animation looked really crazy because he was nowhere near the sideline. I hope that doesn't happen with this.

# 63 SageInfinite @ 03/24/10 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by splff3000


	I just remembered something that that used to happen in the old NCAA game that used to bother the heck out of me. Sometimes, the WR would try make a sideline catch, even though he was nowhere near the sidelines. The animation looked really crazy because he was nowhere near the sideline. I hope that doesn't happen with this.

I was thinking the same thing.

# 64 shadthedad @ 03/24/10 09:02 PM

Not to get too far off the catch thread, but I will bet anything that this year's Madden will be heavy on customization (game-play and character design). This is a main draw for Backbreaker and Madden will be forced to compete. In regards to the thread, it all comes back to quarterback play. The quarterback is the primary focus of the game and receiver animations should mirror this fact. Please explain more Mr. Cummings, because I'm officially worried.

# 65 Valdarez @ 03/24/10 09:25 PM

I really baffles me as to why the devs had to wait until M11 to have a proper debugging tool. They should be able to look at the context at ANY point in time to determine what is going on, and it should not be limited to catches. No wonder they have such a hard time fixing the game. I can't imaging debugging a system without a debugger that allowed me to step into and step back/over each line/segment and even change values on the fly to see how it affects the results. I know there are debugging tools for C/C++, why are the EA devs not able to use these effectively to do the same task?

# 66 nyj721 @ 03/24/10 09:44 PM

Hopefully this fixes the calls where the reciever would clearly get 2 feet inbounds only to have the catch ruled incomplete by the ed hochuli like refs.

# 67 TDogg09 @ 03/24/10 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadthedad


	Not to get too far off the catch thread, but I will bet anything that this year's Madden will be heavy on customization (game-play and character design). This is a main draw for Backbreaker and Madden will be forced to compete.

I hope you're right. Customization is one of my favorite aspects of the game (besides actually playing it

). Madden has been somewhat lacking in customization lately. I hope there is a lot more in M11

# 68 Valdarez @ 03/24/10 10:20 PM

Ian responded via Twitter and said that the ANT (EA Animation Toolkit) was selfcontained and it was easier to write debuggers on top of it as stepping through the code for each frame was very inefficient. I imagine the CDT is simply giving a snapshot of the contextual state for each frame. Personally, it still seems troublesome in the sense that you don't have the ability to see everything and lose the control you have at the language level, but then I don't have a clue what these guys are dealing with in regards to the animation + physics + code logic + whatever else I failed to list so while it clashes with what I have learned over the years of development it may be just right for what they need from developing / tuning the game. It's always interesting to see how the business / gaming worlds align and/or clash.

# 69 Hova57 @ 03/24/10 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	I really baffles me as to why the devs had to wait until M11 to have a proper debugging tool. They should be able to look at the context at ANY point in time to determine what is going on, and it should not be limited to catches. No wonder they have such a hard time fixing the game. I can't imaging debugging a system without a debugger that allowed me to step into and step back/over each line/segment and even change values on the fly to see how it affects the results. I know there are debugging tools for C/C++, why are the EA devs not able to use these effectively to do the same task?

alot of the middle ware and tools they use received an big update to things there were using.the problem is that it was too late to implement by the time the game was released . so they had the time to implement it and mess with for the next cycle.
i did some research based on what Ian had said about the games engine on one of his blogs. i ran across quite a few upgrades to systems they used and the date also ran with the developement cycle in 10 which most was too late to put in the game.

# 70 splff3000 @ 03/24/10 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Ian responded via Twitter and said that the ANT (EA Animation Toolkit) was selfcontained and it was easier to write debuggers on top of it as stepping through the code for each frame was very inefficient. I imagine the CDT is simply giving a snapshot of the contextual state for each frame. Personally, it still seems troublesome in the sense that you don't have the ability to see everything and lose the control you have at the language level, but then I don't have a clue what these guys are dealing with in regards to the animation + physics + code logic + whatever else I failed to list so while it clashes with what I have learned over the years of development it may be just right for what they need from developing / tuning the game. It's always interesting to see how the business / gaming worlds align and/or clash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	alot of the middle ware and tools they use received an big update to things there were doing the problem is that it was too late to implement by the time the game was released . so they had the time to implement it and mess with for the next cycle. i did some research based on what Ian had said about the games engine on one of his blogs. i ran across quite a few upgrades to systems they used and the date also ran with the developement cycle in 10 which most was too late to put in the game.

Whaaa? lol Good job, I guess.

# 71 BrianFifaFan @ 03/24/10 10:50 PM

I'm personally encouraged because we know this is tip of the iceburg stuff. I'm gonna bet the farm that OL/DL is a biggie for either the draft or soon thereafter. Headscans and tuning catching aren't bad, but they hardly qualify as bombshells and Ian knows this. See it on Sunday from a presentation standpoint is played out from last year. And I could see how this tool could be used, along with ProTac, to tweak the OL/DL to get it more realistic. Anyone wanna bet? BTW, forgot to mention that Ian had already said that locomotion was being worked on big time this cycle. The Blue Names all have known that for a while. It all comes together finally for realistic momentum and blocking. I got a dollar on it!

# 72 Valdarez @ 03/24/10 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	alot of the middle ware and tools they use received an big update to things there were using.the problem is that it was too late to implement by the time the game was released . so they had the time to implement it and mess with for the next cycle. i did some research based on what Ian had said about the games engine on one of his blogs. i ran across quite a few upgrades to systems they used and the date also ran with the developement cycle in 10 which most was too late to put in the game.

What are the middle ware tools you are referring to?

# 73 BlueNGold @ 03/25/10 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan


	I'm personally encouraged because we know this is tip of the iceburg stuff. I'm gonna bet the farm that OL/DL is a biggie for either the draft or soon thereafter. Headscans and tuning catching aren't bad, but they hardly qualify as bombshells and Ian knows this. See it on Sunday from a presentation standpoint is played out from last year. And I could see how this tool could be used, along with ProTac, to tweak the OL/DL to get it more realistic. Anyone wanna bet? BTW, forgot to mention that Ian had already said that locomotion was being worked on big time this cycle. The Blue Names all have known that for a while. It all comes together finally for realistic momentum and blocking. I got a dollar on it!

Someone has secrets I see.

# 74 SouthernBrick @ 03/25/10 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan


	I'm personally encouraged because we know this is tip of the iceburg stuff. I'm gonna bet the farm that OL/DL is a biggie for either the draft or soon thereafter. Headscans and tuning catching aren't bad, but they hardly qualify as bombshells and Ian knows this. See it on Sunday from a presentation standpoint is played out from last year. And I could see how this tool could be used, along with ProTac, to tweak the OL/DL to get it more realistic. Anyone wanna bet? BTW, forgot to mention that Ian had already said that locomotion was being worked on big time this cycle. The Blue Names all have known that for a while. It all comes together finally for realistic momentum and blocking. I got a dollar on it!

I hope that is the case but, I'm pretty skeptical. I'll believe it when I see it.

# 75 roadman @ 03/25/10 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan


	I'm personally encouraged because we know this is tip of the iceburg stuff. I'm gonna bet the farm that OL/DL is a biggie for either the draft or soon thereafter. Headscans and tuning catching aren't bad, but they hardly qualify as bombshells and Ian knows this. See it on Sunday from a presentation standpoint is played out from last year. And I could see how this tool could be used, along with ProTac, to tweak the OL/DL to get it more realistic. Anyone wanna bet? BTW, forgot to mention that Ian had already said that locomotion was being worked on big time this cycle. The Blue Names all have known that for a while. It all comes together finally for realistic momentum and blocking. I got a dollar on it!

Thanks for the heads up, Brian. If true, this is news we can use.

Brian is not one to shine anyone on.

# 76 Hova57 @ 03/25/10 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	What are the middle ware tools you are referring to?

Emotion FX , their autodesk or ANT

# 77 BrianFifaFan @ 03/25/10 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	Emotion FX , their autodesk or ANT

I've started to play around with Autodesk 3ds Max. I'm building my little virtual Madden Man, and am gonna try to get some animation loops with some IK to show some of the biomechanics I'd like to see in Madden to make the game seem more authentic. I'm wondering if thats what Ian was using last year to show the route-running changes. It looks really similar to what I seeing as I'm working with it. I like 3dsMax a lot better than Cinema 4d. It's great for static work, but not animation. I'd be interested to find out what all they have in their toolkit. A lot of it has to be proprietary stuff, but I'm sure they've got a lot of "off the shelf" stuff, too.

I'm really looking forward to hearing more about the tweaking tool for branching decisions that he was talking about. That, used in conjunction with the existing pro-tac system offers a ton of possiblities. Plus, Ian had shared that they were exploring either using the "rail-tracks" locomotion system that was developed by the Fifa team and is used in both Fifa10 and WC, or making their own variant.

All of this seems to be adding up to a counter to the on the fly calculations that Euphoria uses. In a way, I kinda feel Tiburon's approach. You can mold specific animations, now seemlingly frame by frame, into a "sig style" type scenario. This will look less helter-skelter and random, like you would get with free physics. I'm just hoping that this is implemented across the board and not just a few glaring problem areas, like pass catching. Well, I guess whole swaths of the game could be considered "problem" areas... I'd just be happy if this next installment had the depth of "sig-style" animations that NBA2k does without the occasional brain-dead movements that 2k suffers from. And this first blog gives me hope, because the come-back routes in Madden10 where a definite "braindead" moment, that appears to have been addressed.

# 78 Hova57 @ 03/25/10 10:42 AM

Fifa your right according to what i read it would put madden almost on par with what Euphoria could do . That's the thing with backbreaker and the developers have come out to state it also its really being used for randomness of tackling. what separates it all is that they are using PhysX with agiea making it more easy to add in fluidity. as far as running motions i would be interested in seeing what you have come up with. i think there needs to be a slight tweek the the jerk motion of the model. what i also would like to know is the ability to program the center of gravity or change in direction , will it be static or dynamic.

# 79 BrianFifaFan @ 03/25/10 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hova57


	Fifa your right according to what i read it would put madden almost on par with what Euphoria could do . That's the thing with backbreaker and the developers have come out to state it also its really being used for randomness of tackling. what separates it all is that they are using PhysX with agiea making it more easy to add in fluidity. as far as running motions i would be interested in seeing what you have come up with. i think there needs to be a slight tweek the the jerk motion of the model. what i also would like to know is the ability to program the center of gravity or change in direction , will it be static or dynamic.

Yeah, center of gravity is big. All balance and power in football is about pad level and keeping your center of gravity down. As much as I think ratings like strength and weight should matter, takling and momentum should always account for center of gravity level at point of collision. The proper tackling/collision outcome should be calculated off of who's in a stronger body positon. Then go from there as to whether it's about strength. A smaller back with a low center is gonna get stopped by someone who's stronger on the same plane. But the outcome should be a crumpling down tackle, as opposed to a "Waterboy-style" suplex body slam. I don't think Madden does a bad job now, but it would be nice to have some more possible outcomes based on a more dynamic physics model.

One thing that really always impressed me about Fifa10 was the player collisions and the realistic looking outcomes. However, the game didn't have the players down well enough in their various ratings to flesh it out fully. It was player tendencies, 1.0. So you don't end up with a Sig-style feel. Big guy hits little guy, little guy falls down. Well, little guys like Rooney or Tevez are little fireplugs, doesn't really matter who hits them, they don't go down and tend to actually give out punishment. I'd like to see Madden get that right, to have the guys feel authentic. It's cool to have Big Ben's throwing motion down, but I'd like to have my D-End hanging on him like onto him for dear life while he's doing the Kenny Stabler and fighting till he hits the ground to get the pass off.

# 80 Hova57 @ 03/25/10 11:33 AM

my understanding of this is that based on the joint code you could point on any part of the body this would be possible and allowing this to be a contact point that would shift you center of gravity.

« Previous 1 2 345 6 Next »

More Links

Madden NFL 11 Blog: Catch Tuning