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Game: NBA Elite 11Reader Score: 2/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360Votes for game: 5 - View All
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# 81 Sarsky @ 07/02/10 04:15 AM
I know im new here but the way i see it is both the old way and the new Elite way of shooting have there problems. Basketball is a game of skill and chance. So you have the old way being chance and the new way being skill. Theres no medium. If you want an example look at Ron Artest. As a Laker fan I was up and down on the guy. I mean he misses WIDE open 3's like its his job. But he also can get hot and rain them down from the heavens. How will Elite take that into account. In the end I want to miss wide open shots and I want to make them while double covered and fading away from half court lol. In the end even the greatest nba shooters couldnt hit every shot with no one on them. In this game I think they could. (i could be way off because i have never played it but its my guess) I mean you put ray allen for a wide open 3 it should be easy. but how easy? We all watched him in the finals destroy one game and then couldnt hit ****. I guess the point is he slumped but pierce lit it up. When we have a bad day on the sticks it will make ALL our shooters suck lol. Maybe im off base but i think even if you do everything right sometimes the shot doesnt go in... and anyone that plays basketball knows that. Its the same for every sport. Sometimes you release and it feels perfect and it isn't.
 
# 82 King Gro23 @ 07/02/10 09:17 AM
Elites control scheme is dope. I like it, but honestly the flashy jerk movement and like momentum defying layups and dunks that just push everything out of the way or slide them is itching, although its early. nice vid.
 
# 83 Da_Czar @ 07/03/10 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParisB
How is it more complex? It basically works the same way. Takes the attributes, motion, defenders etc. into consideration

A dice roll is a dice roll
I don't want to derail this thread. I have been into the heuristics in both game the last few years. I always felt 2k's was better. This year that may change.

I will just say the each implementation can differ not only in the number of factors considered but also the weights assigned to each part of the calculation including the roll itself.

One brief example of different implementations would be the 3 point glitch in live 10 online where guys would hit an abnormal amount of 3's with a particular player. One would think the dice roll would make that less probable.

if one game only had 2-3 factors and was based on a set % I think its clear to see that the dice roll could play a significant part in that. Another game could have 3-4 times as many factors so again a blanket statement MAY not cover both games...

Also one games base % was based on DNA and the other on ratings. But I guess the key is the weighting system and how many factors are included. In my opinion with live 10 and DNA there was much more luck involved than in the competition. So I can understand their point of making that emphasis this year. I was only saying hey that may not directly translate to the competition with the exception being yes if you do everything right you can still miss in 2k, Some think that's realistic others think it's not.

What's cool is that this year we will get to sample some of both and see which one we like better. My hunch is that there will be a middle ground that will be a much better implementation than either game will have this year. I would look to see that implemented in 2012.
 
# 84 Da_Czar @ 07/03/10 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 24th Letter
Your post explains it in itself.....when your taking all those things you mentioned into consideration, its not much of a "dice roll"....honestly I dont think even all those factors above went into the jumpers from Live 10...I think thats what Czar means...
Yes Sir ! or much less of one anyway...
 
# 85 tybud @ 07/03/10 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TUSS11
The probability is completely removed from shooting. Ratings, defensive pressure, etc. all affect the size of the sweet spot. After that, it's all up to the shooter to stay within the sweet spot and time the release properly.

Basically the game calculates how difficult the shot will be then it's up to the shooter to make or miss. All games before that took ratings, defensive pressure and shot timing into effect then calculated the probability of a successful shot.
i dont think we should worry at all as long as the physics play out like they should, remember the average player only shoots 45% from the field so if your playing good D and keeping the shooter some what off their sweet spots than everything should play out nicely. the game is going to call for some serious defensive preasure, its a great thing as long as the defender is givin the tools to defend properly. im not sure but i hope the sweet spot are based on all facets of the game like a shooter having to be set and on balance and all the other things that come with being a shooter. another thing i would like to know, is players sweet spot going to be based on if a player is a set shooter or a player that comes off picks ect, ect. you have players that can hit set shoots all night long but cant throw a pea in the ocean from the same exact spot. it shouldnt be just based on the release of the shot.
 
# 86 BDM313 @ 07/03/10 04:10 PM
this might be the year EA gets over the hump....lookin great by the way the animations look fluid even if its still a work in progress last year was a step in the right direction looks like they're going all out with it....we will indeed see.
 
# 87 ParisB @ 07/03/10 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDM313
this might be the year EA gets over the hump....lookin great by the way the animations look fluid even if its still a work in progress last year was a step in the right direction looks like they're going all out with it....we will indeed see.
Yea, as long as we keep making strides forward and contribute in a good way. It's not realistic to expect this amazing perfect game. Devs can only do so much.

Live '09 was a good step. Live '10 was an even bigger step. I have higher hopes for Elite '11, and everything is looking promising to at least keep the trend. Just keep focusing on gameplay and add presentation here and there.

Each game had some shortcomings, but headed in the right direction.
 
# 88 PH1LLYSFINEST13 @ 07/03/10 05:11 PM
Any word on Post play? WIll there be more moves and any type of signature post shots/moves?
 
# 89 PH1LLYSFINEST13 @ 07/03/10 05:16 PM
One more question is will there be a way to determine if we want to do a layup or a dunk seeing as how there is no more turbo?
 
# 90 PH1LLYSFINEST13 @ 07/04/10 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Boii
yes roll up left or right for left handed or right handed layups.
and lastly up to dunk.
Thanks man , appreciate it. Makes me feel better so i dont gotta worry bout some of the smaller players dunking EVERY time like Jennings. I know he can dunk , but he rarely does.
 
# 91 dirtypuppet @ 07/04/10 10:14 PM
I completely understand this years mantra for 'total control' and I really do like it, but in regards to Jennings dunking every time:

It would feel much more natural to pull up on the stick for a layup, so how about for players such as Jennings who have the ability to dunk, but rarely do that pulling up is not always a dunk attempt. I think it should be more like if the situation is right, or based on his tendencies he'll do a dunk attempt. I think that that's more realistic.

Then it's more like

roll left - left handed layup
roll right - right handed layup
straight up - attack the rim (with the possibility of a dunk attempt, based on ratings)

I might pass this onto the game play thread also.
 
# 92 dirtypuppet @ 07/05/10 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomonkey
i think this is already how the system works, they just didnt have player ratings in for the video.
The problem I see is. If you control it, it's up to you to decide to dunk. But there are lots of players in the NBA that can only just dunk, or rarely do in games, yet alone in traffic, so I feel that when you push up on the stick and are going towards the rim, the decision to dunk shouldn't be so 'finite' but more of a tendency driven result.

Just my 2 cents, but if I was making the game, this is how I would do it.
 
# 93 Jano @ 07/05/10 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtypuppet
I completely understand this years mantra for 'total control' and I really do like it, but in regards to Jennings dunking every time:

It would feel much more natural to pull up on the stick for a layup, so how about for players such as Jennings who have the ability to dunk, but rarely do that pulling up is not always a dunk attempt. I think it should be more like if the situation is right, or based on his tendencies he'll do a dunk attempt. I think that that's more realistic.

Then it's more like

roll left - left handed layup
roll right - right handed layup
straight up - attack the rim (with the possibility of a dunk attempt, based on ratings)

I might pass this onto the game play thread also.
That is how the system works..

If the guy has a low dunk rating then he'll throw up a floater or teardrop instead of a dunk.
 
# 94 P-Dub @ 07/05/10 07:41 AM
I like the idea of attacking the rim. Could be an attempt to draw a foul if there is a defender. Floaters can already be attempted manually.
 
# 95 dirtypuppet @ 07/05/10 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jano
That is how the system works..

If the guy has a low dunk rating then he'll throw up a floater or teardrop instead of a dunk.
I get it, but what about players with marginal dunk ratings? My suggestion for them to attack the rim, resulting in either a strong layup, or possibly a dunk attempt. Just not always a dunk attempt as I don't feel this is realistic.

Even possibly for Lebron. If Lebron 'attacks the rim', more than likely he'll attempt a dunk, but sometimes, a strong straight up lay in is what he'll do. So for example, push up on the stick driving to the hole and the chances are:

Lebron James; 95% dunk / 5% strong layup
Marvin Williams; 50% dunk / 50% strong layup
Dwight Howard; 98% dunk / 2% strong layup
Mehmet Okur; 10% dunk / 90% layup (just a guess, i rarely see the big guy dunk)
Brandon Jennings; 15% dunk / 85% strong layup
Ty Lawson; 5% dunk / 95% strong layup

Just me guessing at %'s here, but you get my point. So you can see with Ty Lawson, if you drive the lane, the chances of you dunking are quite low, but that one special time, you may surprise the defense (as he did last season) but it's not something that he would attempt often at all.

And these %'s should be based on tendencies.
 
# 96 ParisB @ 07/05/10 04:28 PM
For bank shots, can't we use a modifier button, like one of the shoulder buttons? That way we don't have the "shoot on the way down" problem.
 
# 97 Jano @ 07/05/10 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtypuppet
I get it, but what about players with marginal dunk ratings? My suggestion for them to attack the rim, resulting in either a strong layup, or possibly a dunk attempt. Just not always a dunk attempt as I don't feel this is realistic.

Even possibly for Lebron. If Lebron 'attacks the rim', more than likely he'll attempt a dunk, but sometimes, a strong straight up lay in is what he'll do. So for example, push up on the stick driving to the hole and the chances are:

Lebron James; 95% dunk / 5% strong layup
Marvin Williams; 50% dunk / 50% strong layup
Dwight Howard; 98% dunk / 2% strong layup
Mehmet Okur; 10% dunk / 90% layup (just a guess, i rarely see the big guy dunk)
Brandon Jennings; 15% dunk / 85% strong layup
Ty Lawson; 5% dunk / 95% strong layup

Just me guessing at %'s here, but you get my point. So you can see with Ty Lawson, if you drive the lane, the chances of you dunking are quite low, but that one special time, you may surprise the defense (as he did last season) but it's not something that he would attempt often at all.

And these %'s should be based on tendencies.
Okay now I understand what you're sayin and that would be a good idea. But I think the system in place now seems like it'll deliver what you want.

I think the system being used now allows you to make that decision whether or not you want to go up strong w/ a dunk or layup manually. I understand how its not that realistic but the thing is the devs are giving us the option to attempt a layup whenever we want by rolling the stick.

I think your suggestion would be more valid if rolling left/right meant you would attempt a move that avoids the defender. But so far all I've seen is that rolling the stick just means you will attack the basket with a layup.

If you press up on the stick it will lead to the most aggressive move that player can offer whether that is a dunk or layup is based on ratings. With this system you can decide if you want to attempt that dunk if his rating permits it feel me.

So instead of it being based on some tendency you as the user decide exactly how you want to go up. Now if you are speaking from the AI's standpoint then yes this would be a good idea because we can't control how they will react.
 


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